MSB's foray into multi channel

edorr · Sep 16, 2014

So the MSB stack for multi channel roughly boils down to this:

Video server = $30K
8 channel MCH Processor (with no bass management, DRC or any post processing - basically a MCH input switch) = $30K
8 channel DAC = $125K

Interesting to see if there will be many takers for this questionable value proposition....

It seems to me they are trying to sell into the video / HT market, with a audiophile digital purist mindset (i.e. offer zero features and spend $$$$$ on D/A conversion).

Problem is anyone spending this type of cash an a Home Theater is going to want post processing, run an array of subs and needs bass management, and also will want to use DRC, so it seems to me this offering is dead in the water. May be I am missing something.

http://www.msbtech.com/products/masterDetail.php?Page=master

dallasjustice · Sep 16, 2014

No analog input?

edorr said:
So the MSB stack for multi channel roughly boils down to this:

Video server = $30K
8 channel MCH Processor (with no bass management, DRC or any post processing - basically a MCH input switch) = $30K
8 channel DAC = $125K

Interesting to see if there will be many takers for this questionable value proposition....

It seems to me they are trying to sell into the video / HT market, with a audiophile digital purist mindset (i.e. offer zero features and spend $$$$$ on D/A conversion).

Problem is anyone spending this type of cash an a Home Theater is going to want post processing, run an array of subs and needs bass management, and also will want to use DRC, so it seems to me this offering is dead in the water. May be I am missing something.

http://www.msbtech.com/products/masterDetail.php?Page=master

Any MCH DAC NEEDS an analog input. How will you be able to do proper levels, and get all speakers to time/phase coherent?

edorr · Sep 16, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Any MCH DAC NEEDS an analog input. How will you be able to do proper levels, and get all speakers to time/phase coherent?

That would typically be a function of the SSP, not the MCH DAC, but all SSPs have a build in DACs. The MSB architecture has separated the DACs from the processor. However, if I understand correctly the $30k processor does not do any time alignment (distance/delay setting) and certainly not phase alignment. It appears not to have a DSP engine, and just be a MCH switch. Not sure how you would do channel trim.

So you either use the video processor as a source and hope this device allows channel trim and delay setting. If you use an Oppo (or their very own UMT plus) you can use the Oppo bass management, delay and channel trim features. All in all an incredibly ill conceived offering for $185K, unless I am missing something.

dallasjustice · Sep 16, 2014

There wouldn't be a need for a DSP engine. However, there DOES NEED to be a synchronous in/out on the device. Otherwise, there won't be any way to get the time/phase domain correct on the speakers; no matter how carefully one sets things up.

On the system vs. parts scale (Parts is 0 and System is 5), I give this a 0; purely for "Parts Jockeys".

edorr said:
That would typically be a function of the SSP, not the MCH DAC, but all SSPs have a build in DACs. The MSB architecture has separated the DACs from the processor. However, if I understand correctly the $30k processor does not do any time alignment (distance/delay setting) and certainly not phase alignment. It appears not to have a DSP engine, and just be a MCH switch. Not sure how you would do channel trim.

So you either use the video processor as a source and hope this device allows channel trim and delay setting. If you use an Oppo (or their very own UMT plus) you can use the Oppo bass management, delay and channel trim features. All in all an incredibly ill conceived offering for $185K, unless I am missing something.

edorr · Sep 16, 2014

dallasjustice said:
There wouldn't be a need for a DSP engine. However, there DOES NEED to be a synchronous in/out on the device. Otherwise, there won't be any way to get the time/phase domain correct on the speakers; no matter how carefully one sets things up.

On the system vs. parts scale (Parts is 0 and System is 5), I give this a 0; purely for "Parts Jockeys".

Insane pricing is one thing ($125K for an 8 channel DAC). But insane pricing for components that have no practical application is insanity squared.

They should have partnered with say Trinnov or another SSP manufacturer and developed an I2S Pro interface for that processor, with one of their clocks. Then slave a stack of downstream MSB DACs over I2S to the hub in synchronous mode. Your upstream processor does the DSP stuff, and MSB does D/A conversion.

It would be something like a MCH version of the Blue Smoke audio USB to I2S Pro converter.

mojave · Sep 16, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Any MCH DAC NEEDS an analog input. How will you be able to do proper levels, and get all speakers to time/phase coherent?

One could use a different MCH ADC/DAC combo for determining any DSP that needs to be done. However, if you can't apply the DSP it won't help much.

Funny how they worded the volume control option:

None - I am happy with no volume control.

dallasjustice · Sep 16, 2014

mojave said:
One could use a different MCH ADC/DAC combo for determining any DSP that needs to be done. However, if you can't apply the DSP it won't help much.

That's true. For that price, maybe MSB could throw in a Prism Atlas or a Horus.

edorr · Sep 16, 2014

dallasjustice said:
That's true. For that price, maybe MSB could throw in a Prism Atlas or a Horus.

Price may be crazy but if someone want to build the mother of all HT systems and spend a few 100 grand on the digital front end and D/A conversion, why not. The problem is anyone with that aspiration will be completely uninterested because the MSB stack won't meet 30% of their functional needs. I can't think of a single plausible application for this collection of hardware.

Elberoth · Sep 16, 2014

Like the new look. I wonder if that is how the DAC V will look like. Let's hope so !

wisnon · Sep 18, 2014

edorr said:
So the MSB stack for multi channel roughly boils down to this:

Video server = $30K
8 channel MCH Processor (with no bass management, DRC or any post processing - basically a MCH input switch) = $30K
8 channel DAC = $125K

Interesting to see if there will be many takers for this questionable value proposition....

It seems to me they are trying to sell into the video / HT market, with a audiophile digital purist mindset (i.e. offer zero features and spend $$$$$ on D/A conversion).

Problem is anyone spending this type of cash an a Home Theater is going to want post processing, run an array of subs and needs bass management, and also will want to use DRC, so it seems to me this offering is dead in the water. May be I am missing something.

http://www.msbtech.com/products/masterDetail.php?Page=master

For $20K you can get an Illusonic processor with 4D immersive audio sound, scalable from 2 to 16 channels! http://www.illusonic.com/iap-16/

mcduman · Sep 18, 2014

Elberoth said:
Like the new look. I wonder if that is how the DAC V will look like. Let's hope so !

are there rumors of a dac v?

DavT · Sep 21, 2014

Well, I am a happy owner of an Analog DAC with upgrade power supply and a UMT+ transport. I am really happy with the sound and there is a bit of pride of ownership but this new home theater venture can only make me chuckle. I did look at the calendar thinking it may be April 1 already but I guess they are serious. I wonder what they are going to come out with next year?

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