The life of a cartridge

DaveyF said:

I was astonished to see in my latest flyer from 'Music Direct' the followings statement:
'A phono cartridge only lasts for five years' and then ' a good rule of thumb is to replace your cartridge at least every five years!!'
Further the piece states: ' All the tiny parts inside your phono cartridge oxidize over time, no matter how many hours you put on it.'
Now I know that they are trying to sell cartridges, BUT how many of you think these statements are correct?

Click to expand...

Yes I agree and depends in part upon the cartridge maker and its particular construction eg. use of elastomers etc. That said, I find the Lyras definitely give you four to five years before losing their luster.

I think I've had my Grado Sonata cartridge for about 10 years, bought it when they first came out with the wood bodies.

It still sounds good to my ears.

It depends on construction as V.d. Hul has told me.
The main problem is the suspension.
The rubber/elastic parts polymerize with time and loose their optimum behavior.
This has little to do with use and much to do with time and environmental conditions.
Dry/sunny conditions tend to make things worse,whereas dark and slightly humid are better (for the rubbery parts).
On the other hand,humid conditions provoke oxidization on metal parts.
On the subject of magnet parts and wires:Top cartridge designers use very good quality magnets!
Yes,magnets tend to loose their power over time but it is a very slow process and hardly noticeable.
If the cartridge uses copper windings they are more prone to oxidization than silver and that to gold and that to platinum.
However special lacquers are used to prevent this, which makes even copper windings to last for years and years.
VdHul says that the various liquids used to clean the tip of the cartridge may very well corrode the windings (besides working their way into the diamond/cantilever adhesive / ouch!) and so it's
best to use a dry brush (or the late gel products).
So, every five years send your cartridge in for a retip and a suspension renewal and it should be as good as new.

soundofvoid said:

It depends on construction as V.d. Hul has told me.
The main problem is the suspension.
The rubber/elastic parts polymerize with time and loose their optimum behavior.
This has little to do with use and much to do with time and environmental conditions.
Dry/sunny conditions tend to make things worse,whereas dark and slightly humid are better (for the rubbery parts).
On the other hand,humid conditions provoke oxidization on metal parts.
On the subject of magnet parts and wires:Top cartridge designers use very good quality magnets!
Yes,magnets tend to loose their power over time but it is a very slow process and hardly noticeable.
If the cartridge uses copper windings they are more prone to oxidization than silver and that to gold and that to platinum.
However special lacquers are used to prevent this, which makes even copper windings to last for years and years.
VdHul says that the various liquids used to clean the tip of the cartridge may very well corrode the windings (besides working their way into the diamond/cantilever adhesive / ouch!) and so it's
best to use a dry brush (or the late gel products).
So, every five years send your cartridge in for a retip and a suspension renewal and it should be as good as new.

Click to expand...

I've always used the Nagaoke liquid...maybe I should rethink that then. I could use my Zerodust every few plays and a dry brush instead?

John

kach22i said:

I think I've had my Grado Sonata cartridge for about 10 years, bought it when they first came out with the wood bodies.

It still sounds good to my ears.

Click to expand...

No offense George but I have found this out by experience. The ear gets used to what it is listening to and we fail to pick up changes. I think it would be interesting if you had the opportunity to compare a new Grado with your 10 yo cartridges (of course, assuming there's no cartridge to cartridge difference in sound quality which of course there is).

soundofvoid said:

It depends on construction as V.d. Hul has told me.
The main problem is the suspension.
The rubber/elastic parts polymerize with time and loose their optimum behavior.
This has little to do with use and much to do with time and environmental conditions.
Dry/sunny conditions tend to make things worse,whereas dark and slightly humid are better (for the rubbery parts).
On the other hand,humid conditions provoke oxidization on metal parts.
On the subject of magnet parts and wires:Top cartridge designers use very good quality magnets!
Yes,magnets tend to loose their power over time but it is a very slow process and hardly noticeable.
If the cartridge uses copper windings they are more prone to oxidization than silver and that to gold and that to platinum.
However special lacquers are used to prevent this, which makes even copper windings to last for years and years.
VdHul says that the various liquids used to clean the tip of the cartridge may very well corrode the windings (besides working their way into the diamond/cantilever adhesive / ouch!) and so it's
best to use a dry brush (or the late gel products).
So, every five years send your cartridge in for a retip and a suspension renewal and it should be as good as new.

Click to expand...

Even lacquers aren't impervious to the effects of oxygen penetrating its molecular structure. Same goes for the insulation on wires.

I also agree with AJ on the effect of cleaning fluids. I remember years ago people having problems with the spectral cartridge since it seemed the glue used to hold the stylus in place was sensitive to ROH I also wonder how people clean their styli using the Linn method. Even if the fine abrasive qualities of the "sandpaper" doesn't damage the diamond, its pull put stress on the bonding of the diamond to the cantilever and other parts of the generating mechanism. That over time spells trouble to me.

MylesBAstor said:

No offense George but I have found this out by experience. The ear gets used to what it is listening to and we fail to pick up changes. I think it would be interesting if you had the opportunity to compare a new Grado with your 10 yo cartridges (of course, assuming there's no cartridge to cartridge difference in sound quality which of course there is).

Click to expand...

I've been guilty of what George is doing as well (had my previous Grado 8MZ for even longer), but I agree with your post 100% Myles. $500, $600, etc. is a lot of cash to shell out every few years, but if you want optimum performance I think it is a necessity.

John

John72953 said:

I've always used the Nagaoke liquid...maybe I should rethink that then. I could use my Zerodust every few plays and a dry brush instead?

John

Click to expand...

I always suggest asking the manufacturer for cleaning fluid suggestions. There are some fluids that don't have ROH-and that would seem at first glance safer for the cartridge. I've used the Zerodust but rightly or wrongly, just don't get the feeling that it can clean off anything but superficial dirt.

MylesBAstor said:

I always suggest asking the manufacturer for cleaning fluid suggestions. There are some fluids that don't have ROH-and that would seem at first glance safer for the cartridge. I've used the Zerodust but rightly or wrongly, just don't get the feeling that it can clean off anything but superficial dirt.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'll fire off an email to Grado and see what they suggest for my Ref Plat cartridge. Regarding the Zerodust, I've actually found that it did the job quite well in terms of harmonics. Now, of course, it may only be surface dust that gets removed...but I am fairly happy with it.

John

I remember using Stylast for some years. I never could tell whether it was doing anything beneficial or not. Unfortunately, there were times when I replaced cartridges due to physical damage rather than stylus wear. (It might not be a great idea to attempt to modify or remove a cartridge body!) The Stylast products came with very stiff stylus cleaning brushes that I still use.

One of the local hi-end shops in Ann Arbor suggested that any and all liquid cleaners crystallize on the surface and they do not recommend them.

However they suggested I use the original Silly Putty to clean it with, just contact it and pull off the dust.



One guy on the AudioAsylum claimed it pulled his stylus off.

I'm using the dry brush which came with my Last stylus cleaner, the bottle ran dry and I'm not going to refill it.

I stopped using fluids of any kind for cleaning my stylus 4 years ago. i use the Mr Clean Magic Eraser for cleaning my stylus. There are large threads on this method on both audiogon and audio asylum. I am totally on board with the liquid cleaners doing more harm than good over time. If you look at a stylus under a microscope that had been cleaned with the magic eraser method and one that has been cleaned with fluid you will see why I abandoned the fluids.

MylesBAstor said:

Yes I agree and depends in part upon the cartridge maker and its particular construction eg. use of elastomers etc. That said, I find the Lyras definitely give you four to five years before losing their luster.

Click to expand...

My Lyra Parnassus is wayyyyy beyond 5 years old (it's nearer 15!), and it still sounds pretty good to me. Now, even though my Parnassus hasn't seen use all its life (my TT was essential out of commission for 4-5 years), I agree with your comments later in the thread. With that in mind, I can't wait to hear what a newly run-in Lyra cartridge can do! It's my birthday on September the 18th; I wonder if Jenny (aka The Boss) will let me buy a new Lyra Titan i (although I'd rather wait for its next-gen replacement)--or even an Olympos SL--for myself?

vinylphilemag said:

My Lyra Parnassus is wayyyyy beyond 5 years old (it's nearer 15!), and it still sounds pretty good to me. Now, even though my Parnassus hasn't seen use all its life (my TT was essential out of commission for 4-5 years), I agree with your comments later in the thread. With that in mind, I can't wait to hear what a newly run-in Lyra cartridge can do! It's my birthday on September the 18th; I wonder if Jenny (aka The Boss) will let me buy a new Lyra Titan i (although I'd rather wait for its next-gen replacement)--or even an Olympos SL--for myself?

Click to expand...

If it was me, I'd wait for the new cartridge; I'd be shocked if it wasn't out for CES.

I don't like using liquid cleaners, but once in a while it seems something hard, dense or sticky accumulates on the stylus impairing performance that can't be removed with a brush, magic eraser, or zerodust by themselves.
A magic eraser with water first, then with some alcohol usually will do the trick about once a month or so.

DaveyF said:

I was astonished to see in my latest flyer from 'Music Direct' the followings statement:
'A phono cartridge only lasts for five years' and then ' a good rule of thumb is to replace your cartridge at least every five years!!'
Further the piece states: ' All the tiny parts inside your phono cartridge oxidize over time, no matter how many hours you put on it.'
Now I know that they are trying to sell cartridges, BUT how many of you think these statements are correct?

Click to expand...

Dear DaveyF: That quote from MD is a little " confuse ". If you use your cartridge 4-5 hours every single day then maybe the cartridge/stylus could be with you even less than five years, maybe two years! and if you don't take care about like cleaning your records and stylus maybe that cartridge could last for no more than a year.

There is no doubt that even if the cartridge is with out no use it deteriorated in different ways but not as " dramatic " as some of you posted.

Right now I'm enjoying a MI cartridge build/designed in 1964 yes you read well: 1964!, this is 46 years ago that was builded. The cartridge specs say that VTF has to be at 0.5-0.7grs, well after all those 46 years the cartridge can't performs fine at that VTF due that its suspension " suffer " a degradation through the years but still performs great between its VTF range ( high limit. ) and I really mean it: performs GREAT like if the cartridge was build "just yesterday.

The more critical problem with cartridges reside in its suspension that is the area where more easy " suffer " a time degradation.

Even that a well cared cartridge can be with you before stylus goes ( for time playing. ) for many many years, a lot more than MD 5 years statement. IMHO 20 years could be a good average.

I own 100+ cartridges several with more than 25-30 years that were builded and today perform at the same level and even beat several today/fresh top cartridges.

You can read about on this link http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1260-Best-Phono-Cartridges-Ever-Made . This cartridge is very old and is a great great one, at the end of the review there is a link ( the last of three links. ) where you can find other reviews on very old cartridges that today still are worth to have it and worth to hear it.

Nothing last for ever but if we take care on the right cartridge set-up, cleaning LP's along the cartridge stylus and we have no " accidents " with then we can enjoy the cartridge for many many years.

I think that more than a cartridge degradation because of time we will change our cartridge way before five years due that every year comes " new kids on the block " that reviewers always say are better.

I learn and I don't buy any new " kid on the block " because if it is true that¿'s " new " almost all those " new " cartridges are only different but almost never better.

Anyway, take care on your cartridge and enjoy it till you want to hear something " different ".

regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

DaveyF said:

Hi Raul, I think the gist of what the MD point was that the cartridge is deteriorated enough by the time is has reached its fifth year that it is no longer a viable representative of what you bought when new. Additionally, the implication is you would not necessarily realize the deterioration until you 'AB'ed it against a different new cartridge or new version of same.
Apparently simply due to age vs. wear, this situation occurs! What strikes me as interesting is that if this is true, then the cost of cartridges is far higher than most people realize compared to all other components in the system which enjoy a MUCH longer shelf life if you will.

Click to expand...

Dear DaveyF: +++++" has reached its fifth year that it is no longer a viable representative of what you bought when new. ....." +++++++

I think nthat the real subject here is: " a viable representative ". How can we know that through five years of time ( with no wear/playback ) a cartrridge is not any more a " viable representative " ?

We all know that through the time there is a cartridge degradation ( mainly in the cartridge suspension. ), no doubt about. Now, I never read or heard somewhere that exist a scientific studies on the whole subject that can prove that " a viable representative ".

I can't say in any of my very old cartridges if are " viable representatives " but I can say and I can tell you that sounds just great many of them. At the end I think that this is more that if you like what you are hearing then the cartridge is still in good operation condition and maybe at the 95% of quality performance ( save for the stylus deterioration through playback. ) than when original.

In the other side it is not easy to make a study about because through five years maybe we can't find the same model in the market or maybe that same model already has minute design modifications that could change its original performance.

Anyway what for me in the last 10-15 years is really clear is that the cartridge prices are to high compared with other audio components: with and with out the validity of MD statement.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.