Wilson X1/Grand Slamm: Still Improving after 20 years!

LL21 · Nov 23, 2014

So the Transp RefMM (MM2) jumpers are in...only about 20 hours or so. They are a clear improvement over the XL (MM2) i was borrowing from my local dealer. I would not be unhappy at all with the XL MM2 which are far more balanced than my old rolled-off RefXL jumpers which are close to 10 years old.

Fortunately, the new RefMM (MM2) continues where the newer Ref XL (MM2) left off by further extending the treble, giving it also significantly more articulation, as well as notably better low bass articulation. And generally, there is greater transparency across the full spectrum...most notable in Rodriguo y Gabriela's Live in Japan album, where the interplay between the audience screaming/clapping is more balanced, and far more easily distinguished with the RefMM (MM2)s in vs my old RefXLs...and notably more than even my dealer's latest RefXL jumpers.

This only leads me to feel even more confident that [someday when i find them] Opus MM2 SCs will be a nice improvement over my XL MM2 SCs.

Until then, i will focus on the last 'mod' to the X1s which i have been working on...a newer/better mass damping design for the top/back of the bass cabinet.

LL21 said:
...I have decided that keeping the Wilson copper bar and ADDING Transp Ref jumpers is best...and have just agreed a deal to trade in my old jumpers and buy TA RefMM jumpers (their highest level) after comparing my Ref jumpers to the latest RefXL (which were clearly better)...

...interestingly, the Dealer had...4-5 sets of TA RefXL jumpers to use on every jumper for their Focal Grande EMs...

Steve Williams · Nov 23, 2014

most notable in Rodriguo y Gabriela's Live in Japan

I have that album and always use it in evaluating new gear

LL21 · Nov 23, 2014

Steve Williams said:
I have that album and always use it in evaluating new gear

likewise...one of the things i find with some dealer's hyper-setups is that audience clapping/screaming is shrill at high volumes. That is why i like these kinds of CDs. Clapton Unplugged is a classic for this, as well. Nirvana Unplugged too.

I still remember the Arrakis setup where Nirvana Unplugged had a sense of live-scale i have never heard before...effortless natural, concert-level, stagefront-dynamics and size...remarkable. Its tough to get that many voices, shouts, claps all feeling effortless without taxing the speaker and/or amps. 2 sets of VTL Siegried II monos and an Arrakis sure did it.

wsill · Nov 23, 2014

I use Rodriguo y Gabriela's Live in Japan as a reference as well. On the Wilson X-1's (and I'm sure on X-2's) its totally an immersive experience.
I am totally intrigued on your research and progress with supplementing the solid copper jumper buss bar. I mean we are talking about a distance of approx 1 1/2" . Please keep reporting your findings.
Bill

LL21 · Nov 24, 2014

wsill said:
I use Rodriguo y Gabriela's Live in Japan as a reference as well. On the Wilson X-1's (and I'm sure on X-2's) its totally an immersive experience.
I am totally intrigued on your research and progress with supplementing the solid copper jumper buss bar. I mean we are talking about a distance of approx 1 1/2" . Please keep reporting your findings.
Bill

Yes, i came across a site where another X1 owner had tried bi-wiring and swore by it, and then i came across a number of very experienced audiophiles who had also bi-wired X1s and swore by the improvements. I decided i would not go that route (cost), but certainly had read that a good jumper can make a difference.

Sure enough, here we are. I will let people know how it goes over the next few weeks if there is any further.

Frank750 · Dec 1, 2014

My speakers can be tri wired. Until a couple of months ago I was using MIT MA-X SHD BI Wired interfaces on them. Have two sets of jumpers for the speakers. Regular wires that came from Sonus Faber and a set of Elation jumpers I had made by Kubala Sosna when I had all Elation cabling.

I always preferred the Sonus Faber jumpers with the MIT. Clearer and more defined then with the KS jumpers. I'd go back and forth over time because the KS wires looked better built with better connectors and I just felt like they should perform better. They didn't.

Move to the present and I now have all Nordost Odin cabling including single wire Odin speaker cables. I've been listening for a couple of months with the standard Sonus Faber jumpers in. I was kicking around Saturday and decided for some reason to give the KS jumpers another try. Immediately I was struck by a greater sense of impact, especially in the bass, although a bit boomy, I had never heard this in the past. I listened for a couple of hours and kinda liked what I was hearing. Got up the next morning, put a CD on repeat and headed out for 5 hours or so. When I got back, as soon as I walked through the door I could tell something was different.....and better! Good deep, solid, impactful bass, the likes of which I hadn't been getting with the Odin cables but really wasn't aware I wasn't getting it. The soundstage was deeper, more defined and layered. Highs seemed a bit sweeter and the overall presentation was just more to my liking.
All from JUMPER WIRES. I'm a believer in experimenting with jumper wires. Worked for me.

LL21 · Dec 1, 2014

Great post, Frank...you've got a seriously world-class setup, plus you've clearly demonstrated your commitment to the best of the best. Particularly nice to read your experiences here...

Frank750 said:
My speakers can be tri wired. Until a couple of months ago I was using MIT MA-X SHD BI Wired interfaces on them. Have two sets of jumpers for the speakers. Regular wires that came from Sonus Faber and a set of Elation jumpers I had made by Kubala Sosna when I had all Elation cabling.

I always preferred the Sonus Faber jumpers with the MIT. Clearer and more defined then with the KS jumpers. I'd go back and forth over time because the KS wires looked better built with better connectors and I just felt like they should perform better. They didn't.

Move to the present and I now have all Nordost Odin cabling including single wire Odin speaker cables. I've been listening for a couple of months with the standard Sonus Faber jumpers in. I was kicking around Saturday and decided for some reason to give the KS jumpers another try. Immediately I was struck by a greater sense of impact, especially in the bass, although a bit boomy, I had never heard this in the past. I listened for a couple of hours and kinda liked what I was hearing. Got up the next morning, put a CD on repeat and headed out for 5 hours or so. When I got back, as soon as I walked through the door I could tell something was different.....and better! Good deep, solid, impactful bass, the likes of which I hadn't been getting with the Odin cables but really wasn't aware I wasn't getting it. The soundstage was deeper, more defined and layered. Highs seemed a bit sweeter and the overall presentation was just more to my liking.
All from JUMPER WIRES. I'm a believer in experimenting with jumper wires. Worked for me.

jazdoc · Dec 1, 2014

LL21 said:
Great post, Frank...you've got a seriously world-class setup, plus you've clearly demonstrated your commitment to the best of the best. Particularly nice to read your experiences here...

+1!

frankw · Dec 16, 2014

Just wanted to thank LL21 for (the thread) keeping the flame alight for yesterday's forgotten heroes… enjoyed X1/2's for around five years now and I am unlikely to change them... been on that merry-go-round for over quarter of a century, until five or six years ago, peace to all, frankw

LL21 · Dec 16, 2014

frankw said:
Just wanted to thank LL21 for (the thread) keeping the flame alight for yesterday's forgotten heroes… enjoyed X1/2's for around five years now and I am unlikely to change them... been on that merry-go-round for over quarter of a century, peace to all, frankw

Fantastic Frankw! Enjoy! They are truly great speakers. I even have yet a bit more work to do...hope to have a solution to discuss here next year. A big mass damping solution for these speakers, to even further still them from internally-driven vibrations. Will be interesting to see if it works. My preliminary work has done a nice job.

Enjoy your fantastic speakers!

andromedaaudio · Feb 22, 2015

Nice speakers lloyd ,

I was looking at the NRC measurments that soundstage did of the various wilson watt puppy designs , and one can clearly see how the first break up off the Focal tweeter has been pushed out of the audioband over the years and or made considerably smaller i thought i post it to end the so called ringing discussion that sometimes appear, as seen in the WP 7 graph the problem was just about solved/inaudible from then on :

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/wilson_wattpuppy6/

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/wilson_wattpuppy7/

LL21 · Feb 22, 2015

andromedaaudio said:
Nice speakers lloyd ,

I was looking at the NRC measurments that soundstage did of the various wilson watt puppy designs , and one can clearly see how the first break up off the Focal tweeter has been pushed out of the audioband over the years and or made considerably smaller i thought i post it to end the so called ringing discussion that sometimes appear, as seen in the WP 7 graph the problem was just about solved/inaudible from then on :

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/wilson_wattpuppy6/

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/wilson_wattpuppy7/

Thanks! Here is the Wilson Watt 8. http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/wilson_wattpuppy8/

When my old Focal tweeters gave out, i was provided with the latest Focal Titanium (this was 2+ years ago, so well after Alex 2 and Maxx 3 had come out). Would this be the measurement for them (sort of?)

andromedaaudio · Feb 22, 2015

Yes or even better still , development at focal (wilson ) doesnt stand stil off course

LL21 · Feb 22, 2015

Someone posted an article on Bob Katz, Sean Olive and Bruel & Kjaer's 'optimal curve' that they like/aim for. I posted them below. Here is the link to the article again. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/what-tone-quality-your-audiophile-system-126/

Interestingly, i have openly said when i first setup my sub many, many years ago, i always preferred having the lower registers about 3db higher than flat. I also remember the Martin Colloms measurement of the original X1 in his room and Ricardo's room:

Ideal Curves: Article Author, Harman and Bruel & Kjaer (in order)...Bob Katz apparently targets similar curve:

andromedaaudio · Feb 22, 2015

Yes i agree , it is a preferred curve , what one could also do is design a speaker which is flat on axxis , and have just about that curve with 15 degrees toe in , which gives room to play a bit , one can fine tune this to some extent with the adjustment resistors on the Wilsons, a flat response to 20 kHz can sometimes sound to bright

LL21 · Feb 22, 2015

andromedaaudio said:
Yes i agree , it is a preferred curve , what one could also do is design a speaker which is flat on axxis , and have just about that curve with 15 degrees toe in , which gives room to play a bit , one can fine tune this to some extent with the adjustment resistors on the Wilsons, a flat response to 20 kHz can sometimes sound to bright

Thanks...good to know.

andromedaaudio · Feb 22, 2015

I assume a higher resistor( ohm value) will dampen the tweeter for example , 1 ohm will make already an audible diff , but i dont know what steps (value ) they use

LL21 · Feb 22, 2015

andromedaaudio said:
I assume a higher resistor( ohm value) will dampen the tweeter for example , 1 ohm will make already an audible diff , but i dont know what steps (value ) they use

Yes that is exactly how the Wilsons are adjusted by the Distributor/Dealer when they are installed. In my case, the resoldered the resistors twice in order to adjust them for our room (and personal taste). 0.7ohm difference made a big difference and dropped the tweeter output by just above 2db which took it from ear bleeding to sweet.

wsill · Mar 30, 2015

Lloyd,
Everyone,

Re: Replacing the solid Copper Bar on X-1's.

Taking LL1 lead with replacing/supplanting the solid copper Bus Bar on the X-1 connection panel. (see earlier posts within this thread)

After debating/mulling over for quite a while I tried this exercise this past weekend.

On my X-1 Series V I have as all X-1's connection panels ; See post #21. A solid copper bus bar essentially connecting the bass crossover section to the main in positive input terminal. see my post #34 for wiring diagram.

I replaced this solid copper bar with 2 - 4 inch pieces of #14 gauge silver Verastarr wire.
I first tried 1 #14 gauge silver wire, then added a second and stopped there.
I put the solid copper bar on the shelf.
The results are astounding..... Lloyd what you say is true !!!!

In my system I hear much better bass articulation; which the X-1's continued to surpass most other Wilson speakers (less Alexandria); prior to the removal of the copper jumper. The imaging has improved and the dynamics are greatly improved; which I believe is due to no more leaden bass and boominess.

So why is this ? Given a 2 inch piece of copper: (probably reason why I delayed 2 months to carry out this simple experiment).
My theory, potentially is like what happens if you use a big piece of solid copper for a speaker wire, or maybe more to the point is when you use a massive spade lug (lots of copper), instead of a thinner/quicker; spade/connection device.... What do you think ?

But nevertheless, X-1 owners I have experienced a revelation bass articulation, imaging, unlimited thrilling dynamics.
X-1 owners :: Its a simple experiment and test --> try it tell us what you think...

Bill

LL21 · Mar 30, 2015

wsill said:
Lloyd,
Everyone,

Re: Replacing the solid Copper Bar on X-1's.

Taking LL1 lead with replacing/supplanting the solid copper Bus Bar on the X-1 connection panel. (see earlier posts within this thread)

After debating/mulling over for quite a while I tried this exercise this past weekend.

On my X-1 Series V I have as all X-1's connection panels ; See post #21. A solid copper bus bar essentially connecting the bass crossover section to the main in positive input terminal. see my post #34 for wiring diagram.

I replaced this solid copper bar with 2 - 4 inch pieces of #14 gauge silver Verastarr wire.
I first tried 1 #14 gauge silver wire, then added a second and stopped there.
I put the solid copper bar on the shelf.
The results are astounding..... Lloyd what you say is true !!!!

In my system I hear much better bass articulation which the X-1's already surpass most other Wilson speakers (less Alexandria). The imaging has improved and the dynamics are greatly improved; which I believe is due to no more leaden bass and boominess.

So why is this ? Given a 2 inch piece of copper: (probably reason why I delayed 2 months to carry out this simple experiment).
My theory, potentially is like what happens if you use a big piece of solid copper for a speaker wire, or maybe more to the point is when you use a massive spade lug (lots of copper), instead of a thinner/quicker; spade/connection device.... What do you think ?

But nevertheless, X-1 owners I have experienced a revelation bass articulation, imaging, unlimited thrilling dynamics.
X-1 owners :: Its a simple experiment and test --> try it tell us what you think...

Bill

Great news!!! Very glad to hear. Enjoy the changes...i really think David Wilson had a tremendous design in 1994 and in many respects, it has clearly stood the test of time through 7 generations...to the XLF. If you get a chance, you may find a few other experiments from here are worth trying...though not inexpensive...they are nevertheless potentially going to push your performance along further (and still leave you well below the cost of new speakers of anywhere near this quality).

Good luck and enjoy!!!

Wilson X1/Grand Slamm: Still Improving after 20 years!

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