Cartridge Loading- A Misnomer

ack

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MC: Aim for lowest possible capacitance and highest possible resistive loading

I wanted to expand a bit on JCarr's research seen back in post #32 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ing-A-Misnomer&p=258578&viewfull=1#post258578 and why we should aim for lowest overall capacitance for the possible highest resistive loading (for MC), and the following are excerpts from my conversations with JCarr, and since he's a very busy man I got permission to share with you (and I wouldn't be posting his comments if I were not in complete and utter agreement, as per numerous previous posts in years past). BTW, what a gentleman to share his research and spend the time and go into such detail!

The following consolidate what's been previously discussed in this thread and other comments across other threads regarding current flowing through the cartridge's coils.

JCarr:

Resistance is one of those things that is easy to mis-construe unless everyone discussing the topic is very clear (even verbose) with the terminology. Higher capacitance values should be paired with lower resistance values, and vice versa.

The loading resistor value is placed across the phono cartridge's output terminals, which means that any output voltage produced by the cartridge will be forced to flow through the load resistor in the form of current. The higher the load resistor value is, and the farther the net impedance is from the cartridge's internal resistance, the less current will be produced. Conversely, the lower the load resistor value is, and the closer the net impedance is to the cartridge's internal resistance, the more current will be produced.

Forcing the cartridge to produce more current works it harder, and in so doing, stiffens the compliance (the cantilever moves less readily). Making the net impedance closer to the cartridge's internal impedance (by using lower-value load resistors) will also attenuate the voltage output from the cartridge, which makes the job of the phono stage (the vast majority of which are voltage amplification devices) harder.

IMHO, the only time that forcing the cartridge to produce more output current could be justified is when using it into an IV phono stage. Since this kind of phono stage converts input current into output voltage (and is more or less oblivious to input signal voltage per se), it would make sense to feed an IV phono stage with as much input current as possible. An IV phono stage, however, possesses de facto a low impedance input node that receives the output current from the cartridge as a series element (without needing a separate load resistor). This is not how a normal loading resistor works with a typical voltage amplification stage, since there the separate load resistor bleeds the current from the cartridge into ground (thereby wasting that energy). Also, IV phono stages sound qualitatively different to voltage amplification phono stages., and part the reason is that undoubtedly the cartridge is forced to operate into a zero-ohm load (or some other values that is quite close to the cartridge's internal resistance).

IME, a phono cartridge provides the highest resolution and widest dynamic range when the phono stage load resistance is of as high of a value as possible (10kohm rather than 100ohm). Realistically too high load resistance values will force the phono stage into distress due to insufficiently damped and too-large levels of ultrasonics and frequency peaking [ack: refer to research in post #32], so practical load resistor values need to be a compromise between a value that is low enough to keep out of the phono stage's danger zone, while loading the cartridge as little as possible. The reason why less capacitance in the tonearm cable is an advantage is that doing so allows the use of higher load resistance values at the phono stage input.

Note that the above only applies to low-impedance cartridges (mainly MCs). Cartridges in which the electrical impedance is quite high within the audible band tend to be treated differently, with the electrical load being used to deliberately equalize the cartridge's audible frequency response.

[ack: Regarding the Hagerman calculator http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html, which it tells me my optimum value would be around 300ohms]:

No calculator can tell you what the optimum setting is, since the optimum load is a compromise between a resistive value that is low enough to keep your particular phono stage away from its danger zone, while loading the cartridge as lightly as possible [keep in mind that lower resistance value means "heavier resistive loading" , while higher resistance value means "lighter resistive loading"]. Different phono stages have different tolerances to overload and RF, so a resistive value that may be optimal for one phono stage may not be suitable for another.

And although the reactance between tonearm cable and cartridge coil inductance creates a spike in the frequency response (with attendant severe impact on the phase response), this does not create new energy - it only amplifies whatever is present in the local electrical environment. If you live in the countryside, you may be able to use a higher resistive value for loading than a city-dweller. However, even if you live in the countryside, if some electronic component in your house is producing RF, this could preclude you from using higher resistive values for loading.
 

ack

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I found an easy way to verify the claim that higher resistive loads will result in higher dynamic range, audibly and with simple SPL measurements:


  1. I set my SPL meter on a tripod one meter from the left speaker panel
  2. Picked a fixed volume setting on the preamp
  3. Used Armstrong & Ellington Recording Together For First Time but the 45rpm Classic reissue which is VERY dynamic
  4. The test track was Black and Tan Fantasy, where there is high output from the left channel (trumpet and clarinet) at the beginning of the track

Measuring peak output, the results of varying resistive loading are as follows (A90, modified XP-25, MA-X phono):


  1. 30 ohms: 79dB
  2. 100 ohms: 81dB
  3. 320 ohms: 82 dB
  4. 500 ohms: 83dB
  5. 1K ohms: 83dB

The differences are CLEARLY audible as well. Try it with your favorite LP and see what you get...


 

PeterA

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Ack suggested that I revisit this thread because I have been experimenting lately with resistive loading on my Pass XP-27 phono stage. I am using the stock SME phono cable that came with my 30/12A table. I have an AirTight Supreme cartridge. I am finding that my previous setting of 47K ohms now sounds a bit flat and thin to me. There seems to be a lot of resolution and dynamics but the sound is a bit less natural or real than I am finding with lower settings. I have been gradually lowering the load values (increasing the load) and am now comparing the 500, 350, and 220 ohm settings. I prefer these because they seem to improve the sense of weight, body, tonal richness and warmth of real instruments without seeming to diminish dynamics, liveliness or resolution. In fact, the resolution seems greater. There is also an increased sense of palpable presence and more natural sound.

I have been discussing with Ack off line why this may be the case from an electrical point of view, but I keep returning to what my ears are telling me as I listen to my favorite recordings and lower the resistive loading values.

I am curious to know if readers are making their decisions about loading based on the theoretical advantages of higher resistive loading values well described by Ack and JCarr in this thread and loading their cartridges at 1K or higher settings or if they are listening to various settings and finding that it all depends on the components involved. I would also be interested to learn specifically what other owners of the AirTight Supreme are loading their cartridges at.

I find these three comments to particularly well reflect my own experience:

Like Johnathan says the impact of the spike on the signal will depend on the design of the phono stage, but this will give you an idea of what happens with different capacitance and resistance loading values. Knowing that different phono stages behave differently means that you need to use your ears to determine the best loading for your particular combo. Now that I’m using a phono stage that allows custom loading, I am learning how important loading really is. (Audioarcher, post #12)

Mind you, I am speaking in objective terms - I would have no quarrel with anyone who claimed subjective benefits. (JCarr, post #3)

Plus Nick (Doshi) also pointed out that the added "detail" at the say higher loadings actually obscures "real" information. I hear what he’s talking about with the Atlas and other cartridges -but I attribute that to his phono section being very neutral and resolving without the need for extra kick. (post #6)
 
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audioquattr

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I have been discussing with Ack off line why this may be the case from an electrical point of view, but I keep returning to what my ears are telling me as I listen to my favorite recordings and lower the resistive loading values.

I am curious to know if readers are making their decisions about loading based on the theoretical advantages of higher resistive loading values well described by Ack and JCarr in this thread and loading their cartridges at 1K or higher settings or if they are listening to various settings and finding that it all depends on the components involved. I would also be interested to learn specifically what other owners of the AirTight Supreme are loading their cartridges at. .......(post #6)

Well keep returning to that, that’s what counts. And also right to me. I think this cartridge is optimal with 220-350 Ohm loading.
I listened to this cartridge just one week in my system also with pass phonostage and have noted 320 ohm.

My MSL Platinum signature was best with 250ohm at the time with Magico M3 and pass xp-25. Now with Pass xs i prefer 330ohm.
1k and higher it becomes thin and i hear distortions.

So i think your recent findings are right.
 
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Solypsa

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So you've come full circle.

In the end it's about the preamp-cart relationship, I guess that's the main misnomer....

No denying that lower load (high number) is theoretically 'better'...
 

jfrech

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So you've come full circle.

In the end it's about the preamp-cart relationship, I guess that's the main misnomer....

No denying that lower load (high number) is theoretically 'better'...

I might add it's the preamp-cable-cart relationship. The cable is part of the electrical interface here and different cables can and will effect your loading preferences. I've found that a good phono cable is darn near as important as the cartridge.
 

ack

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I have been discussing with Ack off line why this may be the case from an electrical point of view, but I keep returning to what my ears are telling me as I listen to my favorite recordings and lower the resistive loading values.

Right, you should go by your ears and preferences. The point of this thread was to show what exactly is going on and it how it all affects things - from the effect of that peak to what it means to "load" the cartridge - and in the end, what the theoretical ideal goal looks like, which may or may not be attainable in each individual case.

Personally, I am glad to see newer phono stages that understand the theory and address the underlying issues, which enables them to eventually do away with this loading.
 

acmn

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Maybe this is a bit out of subject but...

I think that when we talk about cartridge-amplifier interaction a lot of misnomers and obscure comments could be avoided if we could see the issue simply like this:

There is a low-pass LCR filter acting on the cartridge signal, where "signal" means the voltage generated by the cartridge coil and the output of the filter is the voltage seen in the input circuit of the phono amplifier.

L: cartridge coil inductance (in the simplified model it is one entity)
C: cable capacitance, capacitance in the input circuit of the amplifier
R: cartridge coil resistance (in the simplified model it is one entity), resistance in the input circuit of the amplifier.

And so, the whole issue is just a matter of filter theory which is a well covered topic as we all know.

P.S. In the simplified model the damping factor of the filter is calculated by the formula:

z = ?(L/C)/R/2,

where L = coil inductance, C = cable capacitance + amplifier’s input capacitance, R = amplifier’s input resistance.

If we require ideal damping (z = 1), we get:

R = ?(L/C)/2.

Ideal damping produces flattest frequency response without ringing in the time domain.

P.S.2. I have designed a phono amplifier that uses current-to-voltage (I/V) conversion in both of its op amp stages. It is well known that this method results to better transient handling. The MCS-version even loads the cartridge with short circuit! This eliminates the current in the cable capacitance and turns the LCR filter into LR filter. The frequency response of this filter is always flat and its corner frequency depends only on the cartridge parameters. It is calculated by the formula:

f(-3dB) = R/L/(2?),

where L = coil inductance, R = coil resistance.

If for example R = 5? and L = 6.2µH (these are values given for Ortofon Quintet Black – cartridge), we get:

f(-3dB) = 128kHz.

...MK (Tampere, Finland)
 

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ack

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Solypsa

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So a bandwidth limited input stage or bandwidth agnostic phono circuit is required...
 

acmn

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So a bandwidth limited input stage or bandwidth agnostic phono circuit is required...

No badwidth limitation required, quite contrary. The op amp in the input stage is LM4562 which has GBWP of 45MHz minimum. If the gain of the stage is 200, the bandwidth is at least 45MHz/(200+1) = 224kHz.

Regards, MK
 
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Solypsa

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Sorry, I didn't write very clearly.

I was thinking about how the 'issue' is how the phono preamp behaves when presented with the mc carts ultra sonic hf spike output. If it is not impacted, by virtue of its design, than the hf spike doesn't need to be reduced. So the 'system' (cart/cable/phono) can retain wide bandwidth.

If the phono preamp is negatively impacted by this hf spike, the spike must be reduced by action of loading (filter), so I saw this action as limiting bandwidth of input signal. Or perhaps the input stage bandwidth could be purposefully limited to filter out this spike, but since the cart/cable/phono should be seen as a unit this is really the same thing.

Open to correction if I'm off base here...
 

acmn

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Sorry, I didn't write very clearly.

I was thinking about how the 'issue' is how the phono preamp behaves when presented with the mc carts ultra sonic hf spike output. If it is not impacted, by virtue of its design, than the hf spike doesn't need to be reduced. So the 'system' (cart/cable/phono) can retain wide bandwidth.

If the phono preamp is negatively impacted by this hf spike, the spike must be reduced by action of loading (filter), so I saw this action as limiting bandwidth of input signal. Or perhaps the input stage bandwidth could be purposefully limited to filter out this spike, but since the cart/cable/phono should be seen as a unit this is really the same thing.

Open to correction if I'm off base here...


If you are referring to my design, I don't see any reason why it would be more prone to this hf spike. It can be damped down in the usual way, by choosing suitable input resistance.

And quote from you: Open to correction if I'm off base here...

Regards, MK
 
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Solypsa

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I don't know about your design; it sounds interesting by your description!

I was just thinking about the subject in general.
 

acmn

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I don't know about your design; it sounds interesting by your description!

I was just thinking about the subject in general.

Were you referring to the short circuit loading in the previous post? With zero-ohm load the hf spike is reduced automaticly because the cable capacitance is not present; it is left without current. No danger of hf spike because C is missing.
 
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acmn

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Nice, thanks! We covered a lot of this while also discussing http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html


Yes, I'm familiar with that document, but as I see it, there's an error; the formula for Ropt is not correct if the goal is to achieve ideal damping. (*)

It is:

Ropt = ?(L/C),

but it should be:

Ropt = ?(L/C)/2, (1)

or, if the coil resistance R' is taken into account:

Ropt = L/(2?(LC) + R'C). (2)

I've included a document that shows how the formula (2) is deduced. By setting R' = 0 it reduces to (1).

Regards, MK

((*) Ideal damping is achieved by setting the damping factor to value of 1. This value produces the flattest frequency response without ringing in the time domain.)
 

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acmn

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Nice, thanks! We covered a lot of this while also discussing http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html


Obviously the formula for Ropt in that document is meant to tune the quality factor (Q) - not the damping factor (z) - to value 1. But because z = 1/(2Q), it means that z is to be tuned to value 0.5. This results to a slightly peaked frequency response with ringing in the time domain. In fact the peak is only 1.25dB, but the ringing frequency could well be in the audible range if the cartridge is of mm type. To see what that means in practice, some figures are given below. The cartridge is Pickering XV-15/625E and the capacitance C is assumed to be 200pF. Coil resistance and inductance of the cartridge are: R' = 1.3k and L = 930mH.

input resistance: R = ?(L/C) = 68.2k
corner frequency: fc = ?(1 + R'/R)/(LC))/(2?) = 11.8kHz
peaking frequency: fp = fc?(1 – 2z^2) = 8.27kHz
ringing frequency: fr = fc?(1 – z^2) = 10.2kHz.

Obviously, a tone component – however small – that is ringing with frequency 10.2kHz could affect the sound.

C/pF R/k? fr/kHz
100 96.4 14.4
200 68.2 10.2
300 55.7 8.33

…MK
 
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PeterA

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Right, you should go by your ears and preferences. The point of this thread was to show what exactly is going on and it how it all affects things - from the effect of that peak to what it means to "load" the cartridge - and in the end, what the theoretical ideal goal looks like, which may or may not be attainable in each individual case.

Ack, it looks as though the "theoretical ideal" is not attainable in my case. Al M. was over last night and we repeated compared my former loading of 47K ohms to my current preference of 250 ohms. We used the large scale classical recording of Holst's Planets and the small scale string trio of the Janaki Trio. Our ears confirmed that the lower load setting was preferred. I think that increasing the loading by using a lower value actually decreases the amount of distortion we were hearing in both the high and low frequencies. There was more clarity, accurate timbre and articulation of both the cymbals, brass and timpani. The improvement was perhaps even more pronounced with the violin in the Janaki Trio.

It is possible that different listeners may have a different preference. I asked Al to describe the differences in what he heard, and he basically said that it sounds more "natural" at the 250 ohm setting without any loss in perceived dynamics or high frequency extension.

I was quite curious about the data you posted up thread in which you show decreases in volume with increases in loading (lower values). I wonder if this is a result of higher amounts of HF distortion being louder at the higher settings. You have written that in your case you are able to attain the theoretical ideal by loading at 47k ohms by lowering distortions in your vinyl chain, so I presume you disagree with my supposition. If so, what do you think explains the change in volume? Are you measuring dynamic contrast? Al and I did not perceive a decrease in dynamics when listening, though the formulae seem to suggest that frequency range can diminish with increases in loading.

I'm curious because it seems as though my perceptions seem not to correspond to what the measurements would suggest.
 
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Solypsa

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Higher loads (lower number) slightly reduce compliance also which may be part of the puzzle...
 

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