When stereo first came out there were some bad stereo mixes. They just had not figured out how to take advantage of stereo yet. For example some early Beatles albums. Is there a reason the tapes can't be remixed for better stereo sound? Do they keep the original multi track tapes, or ditch em afterward?
When stereo first came out there were some bad stereo mixes. They just had not figured out how to take advantage of stereo yet. For example some early Beatles albums. Is there a reason the tapes can't be remixed for better stereo sound? Do they keep the original multi track tapes, or ditch em afterward?
i assume you are referring to Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) recordings with early Blue Notes and other early Jazz stereo mixes.
on these recordings; no way that Blue Note or any other label (rights holder) is going to allow anyone to remix these iconic recordings, even if they did have the work parts. these are treasures and must be accepted at face value with those warts and all.
i assume you are referring to Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) recordings with early Blue Notes and other early Jazz stereo mixes.
on these recordings; no way that Blue Note or any other lable is going to allow anyone to remix these iconic recordings, even if they did have the work parts. these are treasures and must be accepted at face value with those warts and all.
Yeah, I guess they could look at it that way. Seems like a lost opportunity to me. It's not like you can't still listen to the original and appreciate it for what it is.
my only real gripe with RVG is his piano's are typically muted or muffled to some degree. and those piano players are typically the best that ever lived at their peaks of performance.
the stereo effect is desired but not essential. give me a full bodied instrument in space and i'm happy.
Even more annoying to me is when they put some things hard right, and the rest hard left with nothing in the middle. In these cases I would prefer to hear it in mono instead.
I Think Everybody digs Bill Evans is exceptional,but that album was done at Reeves Audio in NYC. I think RVG had his way of doing things,the studio had a lot to do with the sound and RVG always kept his techniques close to the vest.
The equipment was all optimized for mono and the economics favored mono until the mid-late 1960's. Up until the late 1960's, stereo was seen as the provenance of the rich, classical music aficionado. I've quoted elsewhere Geoffrey Emrick, the long time Beatle's engineer, that the boys would sit in and approve of the mono mix and weren't even present as a stereo mix was thrown together right before beginning pressing.
“Back in 1967, most people’s record players were mono; stereo was still largely the purview of high-end audiophiles. True Beatles fans would do well to avail themselves of the mono versions of Sgt. Pepper and Revolver because far more time and effort went into those mixes than into the stereo mixes.”
“In contrast to the way they carefully oversaw the original mono mixes, the group had expressed no interest in even being present when we did the [stereo mixes of Sgt. Pepper] that’s how little thought we all gave stereo in those days.”
When stereo first came out there were some bad stereo mixes. They just had not figured out how to take advantage of stereo yet. For example some early Beatles albums. Is there a reason the tapes can't be remixed for better stereo sound? Do they keep the original multi track tapes, or ditch em afterward?
If we take the Beatles as an example, Martin was recording on 4 tracks. As such he was recording and bouncing (combining) tracks particularly when adding effects by group. Once bounced there is no separating the elements.
For example
track 1: George's guitar + Track 2 copy of Track 1 w delay = guitar bounced to track 3 guitar now flanged
Track one and two erased
Track one John's vocals + flanged guitar bounced into track 2
Track 1 erased
So on and so forth. Lots of erasing going on. That's why it is referred to as destructive editing. There's no going back.
You can still try to adjust panning of the 4 heavily bounced tracks if one had the multitrack tapes but the results would be very limited. You would have much more freedom for sound event placement if each element was recorded into it's own track. You could literally build the mix up from scratch.
If we take the Beatles as an example, Martin was recording on 4 tracks. As such he was recording and bouncing (combining) tracks. Once bounced there's no separating the elements. You can still try to adjust panning of the 4 heavily bounced tracks if one had the multitrack tapes but the results would be very limited. You would have much more freedom of movement if each element was recorded into it's own track. You could literally build the mix up from scratch.
I can't be sure but my bet is that GM and the Fab 4 did. They were doing a lot of trail blazing stuff as far as effects go and they did all this with very limited equipment. You can get these effects on a $50 DJ mixer today, everything was pretty much manual/mechanical back then. In any case, personally I just listen and remain amazed at what they were able to achieve with so little. To me it's an integral part of an album's character. Anybody else notice that Willy Nelson is slightly off center on Stardust? I don't think bringing him back square to the middle will make the album better. As for the dreaded Ping Ponging, I like to think of it as a great historical reference.
i assume you are referring to Rudy Van Gelder (RVG) recordings with early Blue Notes and other early Jazz stereo mixes.
on these recordings; no way that Blue Note or any other label (rights holder) is going to allow anyone to remix these iconic recordings, even if they did have the work parts. these are treasures and must be accepted at face value with those warts and all.
The RVG Blue Note recordings have and are being remixed by Michael Cuscuna as part of Blue Notes RVG reissue program . I believe it started in 2003, they have been received with some likes and dislikes. Rudy himself balked at first but then gave the go ahead. I am posting some links to articles on the reissues. Comments by Michael and Rudy are in the articles as well.
Here is also an interview with Michael on the recording and record business.
"What kinds of things are you working on for the ongoing Blue Note reissue series and are there still opportunities to find rare, valuable unreleased material or have those opportunites been exhausted?"
Michaels answer:
The Blue Note Rudy Van Gelder series will continue to revisit more Blue Note classics. But the Blue Note vault is tapped out of releasable unissued material. That’s why we started what we call internally the discovery series, looking to outside sources for new discoveries. And we hit with a megaton bang starting it off with the Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall. Charles Mingus At Cornell, and Horace Silver at Newport 1958 followed. We have a killer Freddie Hubbard album Without a Song – Live in Europe coming in June. Freddie was thrilled with this music – he told me he thought it was some of his best playing ever captured on tape. He was going to do a lot of press for it but alas… We are working on material by Andrew Hill and Wes Montgomery next
