Robert Koda Takumi K15 Preamp

it took me awhile to interpret the graph. the weblink you pasted I can see the colors better...and yeah..a big diff graphically

Does it mean that K15 owners have to throw away their preamp and buy a new one (K15EX)?
Or is there an upgrade path?

Reinhard

Reinhard said:

Does it mean that K15 owners have to throw away their preamp and buy a new one (K15EX)?
Or is there an upgrade path?
Reinhard

Click to expand...

Yes, there is an upgrade path.
Marvel's is the first such upgraded K15Extreme in Hong Kong.

Any idea what is the msrp of K15Ex ?

audioblazer said:

Any idea what is the msrp of K15Ex ?

Click to expand...

Yes, that is of interest,

Reinhard

CKKeung said:

Yes, there is an upgrade path.
Marvel's is the first such upgraded K15Extreme in Hong Kong.

Click to expand...

The upgrade price in HK is about USD8000. The process takes 2-3 weeks.

It's quite reasonable and I guess all K15 owners in Hong Kong will do the Extreme Upgrade.

Just a short note to continue this thread...the Robert Koda K15EX (SuperGround) has arrived. In for approximately 11 hours. It is truly a phenomenal preamp. I have heard some excellent preamps though not all and not always in the same system or a system with which I am familiar: Tubes: ARC, Shindo, Zanden, CJ, Solid State: Krell, D'Agostino, Constellation, Boulder, Tidal, FM Acoustics. And there are others.

With a long-term personal set up of CJ tube pre and Class A SS amplification, for a number of reasons (largely inspired by everything I had read and discussed about Robert Koda)...I found myself in a position of needing to consider/reconsider my 20-year consecutive and continuous ownership of CJ preamps through the magnificent CJ GAT Series 2. This was mainly due to an odd and unfortunate interaction between my CJ and my Gryphon (which is in for repair...no one can explain exactly why, but it does appear to be related to the teeny amounts of DC and perhaps stray tube signals from the CJ which do not get along well long-term with a DC-coupled amp like the Gryphon.)

And so after much, much discussions with many members and owners here, I went with the Robert Koda K15EX, in its latest version (SuperGround).
Initial thoughts:
- a rare, truly rare beast in my personal experience
- My reference: the CJ GAT2's strongest qualities have always been its remarkable lack of grain and a purity in tone that has taken CJ years to hone as they carved away the golden hue of old without ever losing that purity of tone. Over time their designs have been able to do it and with an increasingly low noise floor and beefed up capacitors...it also added detail and respectable (though perhaps not absolute all-out leading) macro dynamic slam.

- now we have the K15EX:

- If you love the purity of tone in amps like the CJ GAT 2, Zanden, I suspect you will love the Koda K15EX. It is all there...all of it. String tone, violin vibrato, vocals, flutes, saxaphone, piano, piano, piano.
- BUT...you will also enjoy a level of noise floor (and detail that therefore emerges from that noise floor) well, well, well below that of the CJ GAT 2. To the point where on deep house electronic, there are very subtle, very quiet music lines, decay, 'sound effects' deep in the recording that now appear effortlessly which I literally had never heard before (at all). That is quite a surprise for me...I had yet to hear ANY system (other than 1) resolve certain tracks to that level before.
- You will also enjoy a level of MACRO-dynamics that in my case results in an adjustment to the Velodyne (which again, I was very surprised about). I have been told by a few owners, Koda-familiar audiophiles that earlier versions of the Koda K15 series have gained significantly in the area of bass propulsion, slam with the K15EX.
- Additionally, I am also surprised that on deep house electronic, there are shadings of timing which are the equivalent of when you drop in a professional drummer vs a really gifted student. There is something about the perfect rhythm a professional drummer gets out of the same drum set in the same room with the same band...but everything is just sharper, more together, and the band just follows that perfect beat. The Robert Koda K15EX manages to sharpen the syncopated rhythms, beat contrasts just that significant element better...so that EVERYTHING seems to sharpen up its timing and delivery. I suspect that relates to its low noise floor which allows beats to drive and then instantly fall away and then come back in again at the precise moment...whereas if there is noise either side of a beat, there is just a teeny bit of obscuring on timing that occurs with when the beat enters and exits. My theory anyway...or so it sounds to my ears.

- we have yet to break it in fully...and the Gryphon is again in for repair. Fortunately, I did spend real time with the CJ GAT 2 and the loaner amp, as well as with a loaner ARC preamp for several weeks...so have a reasonable handle on this loaner amp...and certainly there is no comparison with the K15EX now settling in.

In the level of performance we are talking about, I have to say I was not expecting this level of outperformance over a preamp I always considered state of the art particularly for those who love their tonal qualities and colors and value intensity of tone above most if not all. A genuine blessing to own and enjoy such a work by a master.

...more to come...

LL21 said:

Just a short note to continue this thread...the Robert Koda K15EX (SuperGround) has arrived. In for approximately 11 hours. It is truly a phenomenal preamp. I have heard some excellent preamps though not all and not always in the same system or a system with which I am familiar: Tubes: ARC, Shindo, Zanden, CJ, Solid State: Krell, D'Agostino, Constellation, Boulder, Tidal, FM Acoustics. And there are others.

With a long-term personal set up of CJ tube pre and Class A SS amplification, for a number of reasons (largely inspired by everything I had read and discussed about Robert Koda)...I found myself in a position of needing to consider/reconsider my 20-year consecutive and continuous ownership of CJ preamps through the magnificent CJ GAT Series 2. This was mainly due to an odd and unfortunate interaction between my CJ and my Gryphon (which is in for repair...no one can explain exactly why, but it does appear to be related to the teeny amounts of DC and perhaps stray tube signals from the CJ which do not get along well long-term with a DC-coupled amp like the Gryphon.)

And so after much, much discussions with many members and owners here, I went with the Robert Koda K15EX, in its latest version (SuperGround).
Initial thoughts:
- a rare, truly rare beast in my personal experience
- My reference: the CJ GAT2's strongest qualities have always been its remarkable lack of grain and a purity in tone that has taken CJ years to hone as they carved away the golden hue of old without ever losing that purity of tone. Over time their designs have been able to do it and with an increasingly low noise floor and beefed up capacitors...it also added detail and respectable (though perhaps not absolute all-out leading) macro dynamic slam.

- now we have the K15EX:

- If you love the purity of tone in amps like the CJ GAT 2, Zanden, I suspect you will love the Koda K15EX. It is all there...all of it. String tone, violin vibrato, vocals, flutes, saxaphone, piano, piano, piano.
- BUT...you will also enjoy a level of noise floor (and detail that therefore emerges from that noise floor) well, well, well below that of the CJ GAT 2. To the point where on deep house electronic, there are very subtle, very quiet music lines, decay, 'sound effects' deep in the recording that now appear effortlessly which I literally had never heard before (at all). That is quite a surprise for me...I had yet to hear ANY system (other than 1) resolve certain tracks to that level before.
- You will also enjoy a level of MACRO-dynamics that in my case results in an adjustment to the Velodyne (which again, I was very surprised about). I have been told by a few owners, Koda-familiar audiophiles that earlier versions of the Koda K15 series have gained significantly in the area of bass propulsion, slam with the K15EX.
- Additionally, I am also surprised that on deep house electronic, there are shadings of timing which are the equivalent of when you drop in a professional drummer vs a really gifted student. There is something about the perfect rhythm a professional drummer gets out of the same drum set in the same room with the same band...but everything is just sharper, more together, and the band just follows that perfect beat. The Robert Koda K15EX manages to sharpen the syncopated rhythms, beat contrasts just that significant element better...so that EVERYTHING seems to sharpen up its timing and delivery. I suspect that relates to its low noise floor which allows beats to drive and then instantly fall away and then come back in again at the precise moment...whereas if there is noise either side of a beat, there is just a teeny bit of obscuring on timing that occurs with when the beat enters and exits. My theory anyway...or so it sounds to my ears.

- we have yet to break it in fully...and the Gryphon is again in for repair. Fortunately, I did spend real time with the CJ GAT 2 and the loaner amp, as well as with a loaner ARC preamp for several weeks...so have a reasonable handle on this loaner amp...and certainly there is no comparison with the K15EX now settling in.

In the level of performance we are talking about, I have to say I was not expecting this level of outperformance over a preamp I always considered state of the art particularly for those who love their tonal qualities and colors and value intensity of tone above most if not all. A genuine blessing to own and enjoy such a work by a master.

...more to come...

Click to expand...

Hi LL21,
Big congratulations!

The K15EX SuperGround is a fabulous preamp!
A best friend of mine has it and I visit him often.
He pairs it with his four Audiovalve monos, driving Magico Q7.
I agree with you 100% : the macro-dynamics is awesome!

LL21 said:

Just a short note to continue this thread...the Robert Koda K15EX (SuperGround) has arrived. In for approximately 11 hours. It is truly a phenomenal preamp. I have heard some excellent preamps though not all and not always in the same system or a system with which I am familiar: Tubes: ARC, Shindo, Zanden, CJ, Solid State: Krell, D'Agostino, Constellation, Boulder, Tidal, FM Acoustics. And there are others.

With a long-term personal set up of CJ tube pre and Class A SS amplification, for a number of reasons (largely inspired by everything I had read and discussed about Robert Koda)...I found myself in a position of needing to consider/reconsider my 20-year consecutive and continuous ownership of CJ preamps through the magnificent CJ GAT Series 2. This was mainly due to an odd and unfortunate interaction between my CJ and my Gryphon (which is in for repair...no one can explain exactly why, but it does appear to be related to the teeny amounts of DC and perhaps stray tube signals from the CJ which do not get along well long-term with a DC-coupled amp like the Gryphon.)

And so after much, much discussions with many members and owners here, I went with the Robert Koda K15EX, in its latest version (SuperGround).
Initial thoughts:
- a rare, truly rare beast in my personal experience
- My reference: the CJ GAT2's strongest qualities have always been its remarkable lack of grain and a purity in tone that has taken CJ years to hone as they carved away the golden hue of old without ever losing that purity of tone. Over time their designs have been able to do it and with an increasingly low noise floor and beefed up capacitors...it also added detail and respectable (though perhaps not absolute all-out leading) macro dynamic slam.

- now we have the K15EX:

- If you love the purity of tone in amps like the CJ GAT 2, Zanden, I suspect you will love the Koda K15EX. It is all there...all of it. String tone, violin vibrato, vocals, flutes, saxaphone, piano, piano, piano.
- BUT...you will also enjoy a level of noise floor (and detail that therefore emerges from that noise floor) well, well, well below that of the CJ GAT 2. To the point where on deep house electronic, there are very subtle, very quiet music lines, decay, 'sound effects' deep in the recording that now appear effortlessly which I literally had never heard before (at all). That is quite a surprise for me...I had yet to hear ANY system (other than 1) resolve certain tracks to that level before.
- You will also enjoy a level of MACRO-dynamics that in my case results in an adjustment to the Velodyne (which again, I was very surprised about). I have been told by a few owners, Koda-familiar audiophiles that earlier versions of the Koda K15 series have gained significantly in the area of bass propulsion, slam with the K15EX.
- Additionally, I am also surprised that on deep house electronic, there are shadings of timing which are the equivalent of when you drop in a professional drummer vs a really gifted student. There is something about the perfect rhythm a professional drummer gets out of the same drum set in the same room with the same band...but everything is just sharper, more together, and the band just follows that perfect beat. The Robert Koda K15EX manages to sharpen the syncopated rhythms, beat contrasts just that significant element better...so that EVERYTHING seems to sharpen up its timing and delivery. I suspect that relates to its low noise floor which allows beats to drive and then instantly fall away and then come back in again at the precise moment...whereas if there is noise either side of a beat, there is just a teeny bit of obscuring on timing that occurs with when the beat enters and exits. My theory anyway...or so it sounds to my ears.

- we have yet to break it in fully...and the Gryphon is again in for repair. Fortunately, I did spend real time with the CJ GAT 2 and the loaner amp, as well as with a loaner ARC preamp for several weeks...so have a reasonable handle on this loaner amp...and certainly there is no comparison with the K15EX now settling in.

In the level of performance we are talking about, I have to say I was not expecting this level of outperformance over a preamp I always considered state of the art particularly for those who love their tonal qualities and colors and value intensity of tone above most if not all. A genuine blessing to own and enjoy such a work by a master.

...more to come...

Click to expand...

Congrats Lloyd

I did notice the Koda on your signature and I was going to ask you. It must be a wonderful preamp to better the cj GAT2. At multiples the cost, it is good to hear the Koda is proving its worth.

I can't say I have ever had any DC issues with the prem14, prem16, ART and GAT preamps being used with SS amps.

There is another silver lining - you can keep fit getting up and down changing the volume as no remote

Not sure I can contemplate any preamp that does not have a remote for volume.

Big changes in the LL21 household in the last 18 months, new amp, new speakers and now new preamp. The system must be sounding magnificent.

enjoy LLoyd cheers Shane

Congratulations Lloyd!

Can you explain the meaning of “Super Ground” please.

LL21 said:

Just a short note to continue this thread...the Robert Koda K15EX (SuperGround) has arrived. In for approximately 11 hours. It is truly a phenomenal preamp. I have heard some excellent preamps though not all and not always in the same system or a system with which I am familiar: Tubes: ARC, Shindo, Zanden, CJ, Solid State: Krell, D'Agostino, Constellation, Boulder, Tidal, FM Acoustics. And there are others.

With a long-term personal set up of CJ tube pre and Class A SS amplification, for a number of reasons (largely inspired by everything I had read and discussed about Robert Koda)...I found myself in a position of needing to consider/reconsider my 20-year consecutive and continuous ownership of CJ preamps through the magnificent CJ GAT Series 2. This was mainly due to an odd and unfortunate interaction between my CJ and my Gryphon (which is in for repair...no one can explain exactly why, but it does appear to be related to the teeny amounts of DC and perhaps stray tube signals from the CJ which do not get along well long-term with a DC-coupled amp like the Gryphon.)

And so after much, much discussions with many members and owners here, I went with the Robert Koda K15EX, in its latest version (SuperGround).
Initial thoughts:
- a rare, truly rare beast in my personal experience
- My reference: the CJ GAT2's strongest qualities have always been its remarkable lack of grain and a purity in tone that has taken CJ years to hone as they carved away the golden hue of old without ever losing that purity of tone. Over time their designs have been able to do it and with an increasingly low noise floor and beefed up capacitors...it also added detail and respectable (though perhaps not absolute all-out leading) macro dynamic slam.

- now we have the K15EX:

- If you love the purity of tone in amps like the CJ GAT 2, Zanden, I suspect you will love the Koda K15EX. It is all there...all of it. String tone, violin vibrato, vocals, flutes, saxaphone, piano, piano, piano.
- BUT...you will also enjoy a level of noise floor (and detail that therefore emerges from that noise floor) well, well, well below that of the CJ GAT 2. To the point where on deep house electronic, there are very subtle, very quiet music lines, decay, 'sound effects' deep in the recording that now appear effortlessly which I literally had never heard before (at all). That is quite a surprise for me...I had yet to hear ANY system (other than 1) resolve certain tracks to that level before.
- You will also enjoy a level of MACRO-dynamics that in my case results in an adjustment to the Velodyne (which again, I was very surprised about). I have been told by a few owners, Koda-familiar audiophiles that earlier versions of the Koda K15 series have gained significantly in the area of bass propulsion, slam with the K15EX.
- Additionally, I am also surprised that on deep house electronic, there are shadings of timing which are the equivalent of when you drop in a professional drummer vs a really gifted student. There is something about the perfect rhythm a professional drummer gets out of the same drum set in the same room with the same band...but everything is just sharper, more together, and the band just follows that perfect beat. The Robert Koda K15EX manages to sharpen the syncopated rhythms, beat contrasts just that significant element better...so that EVERYTHING seems to sharpen up its timing and delivery. I suspect that relates to its low noise floor which allows beats to drive and then instantly fall away and then come back in again at the precise moment...whereas if there is noise either side of a beat, there is just a teeny bit of obscuring on timing that occurs with when the beat enters and exits. My theory anyway...or so it sounds to my ears.

- we have yet to break it in fully...and the Gryphon is again in for repair. Fortunately, I did spend real time with the CJ GAT 2 and the loaner amp, as well as with a loaner ARC preamp for several weeks...so have a reasonable handle on this loaner amp...and certainly there is no comparison with the K15EX now settling in.

In the level of performance we are talking about, I have to say I was not expecting this level of outperformance over a preamp I always considered state of the art particularly for those who love their tonal qualities and colors and value intensity of tone above most if not all. A genuine blessing to own and enjoy such a work by a master.

...more to come...

Click to expand...

Really cool system move Lloyd. Enjoy.

XV-1 said:

Congrats Lloyd

I did notice the Koda on your signature and I was going to ask you. It must be a wonderful preamp to better the cj GAT2. At multiples the cost, it is good to hear the Koda is proving its worth.

I can't say I have ever had any DC issues with the prem14, prem16, ART and GAT preamps being used with SS amps.

There is another silver lining - you can keep fit getting up and down changing the volume as no remote

Not sure I can contemplate any preamp that does not have a remote for volume.

Big changes in the LL21 household in the last 18 months, new amp, new speakers and now new preamp. The system must be sounding magnificent.

enjoy LLoyd cheers Shane

Click to expand...

Thanks! Yes, the equipment has changed...speakers were a 10-year patient move...the Mephisto an opportunity and the Koda a mix of a push and an opportunity. I believe that it is mainly DC-coupled amps that have this issues with tube pres, and even then it is rare. I have had a few loaner amps (with transformer inputs or whatever...which block incoming DC)...and no issues. But the Gryphon for some reason just over time gets 'irritable', and the best people could figure out was this.

As for remote, I would say with the remote, with the system on 15 hours a day, i might have used it 2-3x/day at most. It has always been set it and leave it...but again, I work while the system is on and pretty much never sit in front of the system to listen in a focused manner.

The spirit of the system remains the same (in large part due to choices and the Zanden 4-box digital)...but yes, I am blessed to say it has clearly evolved significantly.

Marcus said:

Congratulations Lloyd!

Can you explain the meaning of “Super Ground” please.

Click to expand...

Hi Marcus,

So Robert Koda has come up with an internal 'super ground' that apparently quiets the noise floor further. It is now standard with all new K15EX, not an extra model or version. It is something that can be done with any existing K15 unit as I understand, certainly any K15EX...and I am pretty sure any K15 as well since that too is upgradeable to K15EX. I presume it has something to do with the way it deals with incoming signal/grounding and isolates it to avoid stray noise.

Lloyd, are the new Koda SS monoblocks ever a possible option?
Congrats on the acquisition. I demoed the K10 a few years back and it had maximum wow factor.

spiritofmusic said:

Lloyd, are the new Koda SS monoblocks ever a possible option?
Congrats on the acquisition. I demoed the K10 a few years back and it had maximum wow factor.

Click to expand...

Thanks...from what Amadeus says, they are legendary. And I think legendarily expensive. And if the Gryphon returns in absolute perfect form, I doubt I change. The good news is that Absolute Sounds is now the distributor in the UK technically as of several weeks ago, so at least there is real coverage and service which is incredibly important.

Congrats Lloyd ! You know I loved my K10 when I had it...I bet the K15EX is outa this world ! Post some pics please of your system ! Thrilled for you !!

LL21 said:

Just a short note to continue this thread...the Robert Koda K15EX (SuperGround) has arrived. In for approximately 11 hours. It is truly a phenomenal preamp. (...)

Click to expand...

Great to know you already got it. Congratulations, I see some Koda 70 in the end of tunnel sometime in the future - or may be I am just transposing my repressed desire!

microstrip said:

Great to know you already got it. Congratulations, I see some Koda 70 in the end of tunnel sometime in the future - or may be I am just transposing my repressed desire!

Click to expand...

Candidly if the CJ and Gryphon had gotten along perfectly, this would never have happened...I was genuinely that happy with it. But I consider myself blessed that it did happen, and that we were able to stretch for it.

As for amps...again, so happy with Gryphon cannot see moving away...but after 20 years with CJ preamps consecutively all that time, I suppose one has to say never say never!

Lloyd, if your DC issues were anywhere near as bad as mine...frighteningly violent gunfire cracks as one set of tubes in my Nat Utopia preamp starting failing causing DC offset issues, culminating in nearly blowing my Zu drivers...I'm not surprised you moved on.

For me, a £50 change of these tubes sorted the issue.

spiritofmusic said:

Lloyd, if your DC issues were anywhere near as bad as mine...frighteningly violent gunfire cracks as one set of tubes in my Nat Utopia preamp starting failing causing DC offset issues, culminating in nearly blowing my Zu drivers...I'm not surprised you moved on.

For me, a £50 change of these tubes sorted the issue.

Click to expand...

ACtually, no it has taken years of odd behaviour for people to figure this out...and it is not 100% certain but there appears to be no other explanation. The owner of CJ, Gryphon, and 3 audio techs have all scratched their heads around it. And then the Gryphon lost a channel while we were doing an installation...and that was the conclusion they came to in the room.

it was a sort silent insidious thing that had no pops, noises or blow ups...until the channel went buzzy and then out all at once. The tubes had all been changed a few times...

...sounds like when a DC-coupled amp does not like DC it really does not like even millivolts of DC. Now we are balanced from a SS preamp that leaks '0' DC and has no stray tube noise either obviously. When the Gryphon comes back from repairs, will be interesting to see how they get along...but from owners who have actually paired them together...I am genuinely looking forward to it.

So far, it is a stunning performer.