Graham Elite & TechDas AF1

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
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How exciting! I just join the family and my AF1 arrived last night!

Actually..... while trying to mount the Elite, it seems the standard SME armboard can only fit the 9 inch arm? My elite has 10 inch arm wand and I couldn't mount it. Reversing the armboard didn't help either.....

Is a special order armboard required to mount the 10 inch arm? I was under the impression that the standard armboard can accommodate both 9 and 10 inch arms....

Congrats! Give us some pics - mine in in my signature :D
 

MatthewC

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2014
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I use the SME mount arm bd for my 10" Graham Elite on the AF1...can you be more specific why your arm doesn't fit ? Are the holes drilled wrong on the board itself ? Are you using the graham spindle cup and the arm w/o cart attached to get your pivot to spindle distance for the 10" arm ? ...need more specifics in order to help. As an fyi, when I got my AF1, the holes for the sme sled mount were incorrectly drilled.

Hi Christian,

The holes for the SME sled was drilled too close to the platter. I am not sure if that's the issue you had, but I checked with the board on another AF2 in the dealer showroom, and both were the same. However, the board on the optional secondary mount fits perfectly, so I bought the secondary mount, which I intend to buy later anyway, in order to get the wooden armboard. Problem solved for now.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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On several threads new owners of TechDAS turntables and Graham tonearms have reported problems with mounting the tonearm on the turntable and reported receiving misdrilled tonearm boards. For around $105,000, and in view of the fact that the arm was designed for the turntable why in the world are people having these problems?

At any price level, but especially at this price level, and with close co-ordination between the turntable maker and the tonearm maker, I find this disturbing.

Bob - why are purchasers having these issues? What is going on here?
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
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.....
Is a special order armboard required to mount the 10 inch arm? I was under the impression that the standard armboard can accommodate both 9 and 10 inch arms....

There's no such thing as a "standard" armboard on these tables, the boards are always ordered arm specific. The difference between the mount on the rear and the one on the right is that the rear one can accommodate most arms "up to" about 12 inches long while the one on the right side is limited to arms of "up to" 10 inches. 9" & 10" SME tone arms have a different geometry, you need a different board for each one.
david
 
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rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Hi Christian,

The holes for the SME sled was drilled too close to the platter..

yes, that is the problem I had. I would send the Bd back to Bob and have him fix (re-drill) it. That is what I did. From my memory, Bob couldn't understand why TechDas could not get it right as he sent them specific measurements on where to drill for the 10" Supreme sme mount.

I will also note they incorrectly drilled my rear arm board too...SME mount.
 
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PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,522
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USA
On several threads new owners of TechDAS turntables and Graham tonearms have reported problems with mounting the tonearm on the turntable and reported receiving misdrilled tonearm boards. For around $105,000, and in view of the fact that the arm was designed for the turntable why in the world are people having these problems?

At any price level, but especially at this price level, and with close co-ordination between the turntable maker and the tonearm maker, I find this disturbing.

Bob - why are purchasers having these issues? What is going on here?

I can't speak from personal experience, nor is it clear exactly where the responsibility lies, but this reminds me of issues I have read about where the wrong protractor was sent for a specific arm, or new arm lengths are released but the headshell offset angle remained the same and therefor is wrong for the new arm or wand length. Regardless of the high prices, these types of issues should never, or very rarely, happen. And I agree that when there is such a close relationship between arm and turntable companies, there is no real excuse for any of this.

I'm sure the issues can be resolved, but it takes time and dampens the excitement that comes with such a purchase.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
On several threads new owners of TechDAS turntables and Graham tonearms have reported problems with mounting the tonearm on the turntable and reported receiving misdrilled tonearm boards. For around $105,000, and in view of the fact that the arm was designed for the turntable why in the world are people having these problems?

At any price level, but especially at this price level, and with close co-ordination between the turntable maker and the tonearm maker, I find this disturbing.

Bob - why are purchasers having these issues? What is going on here?

Not me. Since my first Phantom (I'm on my 3rd now), I specifically order the Graham mount. The SME mounting system is best for SME arms IMO. The sliding feature did nothing for my last three main tables. It's reason for being is not to make large adjustments (9" to 10.5" arms) but rather very small and fine ones for overhang because SME arms have fixed cart bolt holes. With an arm where you can do the fine adjustments on the head shell, the feature is redundant. My TNT-HRX used a fixed board that was specially drilled for XL wand lengths and my TW AC-3 had movable boards where the simpler G-mount was also easier to spot up. Obviously with the AF1 it is a fire and forget thing. I've been to TD's factory and I have seen how they prepare the CAD geometry instructions for the CNC guys. I was the one that got the geometries for them from Kuzma and Da Vinci. These drawings were painstakingly rendered in CAD from the supplied material from the two companies.
 
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DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
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I guess I just couldn't keep my hands to myself. Visiting the home of an audiophile in Bangkok I noticed that his system wasn't performing as well as a system of this calibre (Avalon Isis, Spectral electronics) should be doing. I asked the owners permission to check and fine-tune the set-up of his Air Force One.

Good thing I did as there was quite a litany of problems with the set-up. An hour later, the system was singing.

The Graham Elite is a joy to set up - I've used and set-up numerous Phantoms before, but this is the first time I had seen an Elite.

It was fortunate that I was there, as this was the 9th Air Force One sold in Bangkok, and the audiophile who had already placed his order for the 10th to be delivered in July was already having second thoughts. The AF1 had the reputation of being slow but musical. After dialing it in, it sounded like a completely different turntable.

Hi Gary,

interesting, care to share what you found and actually did (fine tuned) Was it more to do with cart dial in?
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Hi Gary,

interesting, care to share what you found and actually did (fine tuned) Was it more to do with cart dial in?

It was a problem with an inexperienced dealer and audiophiles - I have informed Nishikawa-san, and because of the large concentration of owners he will send a technician to train the dealer in set-up and make sure that all (10 units) are set-up properly. It was much more than just dialing-in the cart.
 

MatthewC

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2014
58
4
238
It was a problem with an inexperienced dealer and audiophiles - I have informed Nishikawa-san, and because of the large concentration of owners he will send a technician to train the dealer in set-up and make sure that all (10 units) are set-up properly. It was much more than just dialing-in the cart.

Gary,

I am one of those who like to set things up myself (I consider it part of the fun of the toy acquisition process :) and I set up my AF1 myself. Is it possible to share some "tricks" on the forum (or if not, PM?) Not necessarily what the problem was that you observered, just would love to know if there are things to watch out for.

Thanks!
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
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It was a problem with an inexperienced dealer and audiophiles - I have informed Nishikawa-san, and because of the large concentration of owners he will send a technician to train the dealer in set-up and make sure that all (10 units) are set-up properly. It was much more than just dialing-in the cart.

Ya that's never good if a dealer is inexperienced setting something up "lots of them out there" followed by others whom just don't know better but when you refer to "much more than just dialing-in the cart" are you suggesting even the table it's self?

The actual table it's self is pretty straight forward! Bob set mine up and looked so, leveled it up and then installed the Elite arm with my cart. - "I personally fine tuned mine 100% afterwards using a Digital Cartridge Man Level device and dialed in my cart" Once the table is up and running and locking in speed and holding what else is there? Next is the arm set-up with cart - just asking out of curiosity, always learning.
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
547
6
0
Gary,

I am one of those who like to set things up myself (I consider it part of the fun of the toy acquisition process :) and I set up my AF1 myself. Is it possible to share some "tricks" on the forum (or if not, PM?) Not necessarily what the problem was that you observered, just would love to know if there are things to watch out for.

Thanks!

Hi MathewC, use another method other than the provided bubble and place on the units platter to ensure it's 100% level in all directions, I have used the digital man level device for years now and found it to be well worth the cost. The motor - there are two allen screws - ensure they are not tight. the pulley wheel should move freely in a spring motion for tension. The level of the motor it's self compared to table along with space is important - you should have gotten a spacer to use for that distance. Any belt drive I have always ensured to remove any dust off the belt periodically and where it comes in contact is ensure is clean "I have the original dust cover which I use when not in use so assist big time keeping duct off" I have gone over to many friends places whom have belt drives and see finger prints on the platter where the belt resides and just shake my head :confused:

There are tweaks like with everything out there but that's a whole other topic - I find it's best to try such once you are very familiar - sometimes you can go sideways or even worse degrade.

Even with the mass and design over all of this fabulous table what you place it on makes a difference :)

Post some pics of yours
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
DEV, since you own an AF1, why not start a thread on tips and tricks. I'll contribute what I know, but I am not an official source and uncomfortable starting it.

Or Jack might want to do it. It will help owners like MatthewC and others who like to set up things themselves.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
I'm on my way to a Fiesta now but I'll start it when I get back in four or five hours or so. Good idea Gary!
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
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The AF1 / Graham combo kicked ass in Munich - if I could have taken 1 thing home, it would have been that. In fact, I think it is the best source I ever heard on the multiple occasions I have now heard it.
 

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