Do we stop buying vinyl because most new releases incorporate a digital element?

Johnny Vinyl · May 24, 2014

It's a simple fact that the vast majority of new releases, whether reissues or not, incorporate some digital elements in the production. While this is certainly not my preference, we cannot escape it. In the case of reissues many of us are lucky enough to have true analogue recordings of the same material, but for new material and reissues that include additional material we are out of luck. If you want the release you'll have no choice but to live with that fact.

Do you buy this partly/wholly "digitally" produced product or automatically turn your nose up at it?

rockitman · May 24, 2014

re-issues done right. Jazz, classical and some rock are sourced from the master analog tapes usually. Labels like Classic Records, MoFi, Analog productions, ect. Some big name bands...Zeppelin, Grateful Dead comes to mind are reissued off Master hi-rez digital files that came from the analog masters. In the case of Grateful Dead, I have no choice on their recent live releases...Zeppelin, I do have the choice as I have all the classic records analog sourced 33's & 45's along with first issues of Zep 2 (Ludwig & UK Plum), Houses and LZ3. I will not be purchasing this new digitally re-mastered release. In general, I avoid digital mastered vinyl. There are exceptions though.

edit:
Johnny, I will be buying the Live CSNY '74 release though...perhaps in vinyl.

Bruce B · May 24, 2014

If vinyl (or tape) is sourced from digital, I'll take the digital source file every single day!

Johnny Vinyl · May 24, 2014

rockitman said:
re-issues done right. Jazz, classical and some rock are sourced from the master analog tapes usually. Labels like Classic Records, MoFi, Analog productions, ect. Some big name bands...Zeppelin, Grateful Dead comes to mind are reissued off Master hi-rez digital files that came from the analog masters. In the case of Grateful Dead, I have no choice on their recent live releases...Zeppelin, I do have the choice as I have all the classic records analog sourced 33's & 45's along with first issues of Zep 2 (Ludwig & UK Plum), Houses and LZ3. I will not be purchasing this new digitally re-mastered release. In general, I avoid digital mastered vinyl. There are exceptions though.

edit:
Johnny, I will be buying the Live CSNY '74 release though...perhaps in vinyl.

Regarding LZ I won't be buying them either as I'm satisfied with my originals and the one Classic I have, which is HOTH. One day I'll find a Classic of ITTOD and I'll call it a day. I love LZ, but not as big a fan as many.

In the case of CSN&Y I'll be buying it...unless it gets trashed really badly.

More to the point of the thread start however, I have no problem buying the newer digitally enhanced(?

) vinyl, as long as it's done right. The PF-WYWH release is actually quite nice and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples out there.

rbbert · May 24, 2014

But why? Don't you think that's carrying the anti-digital torch beyond any reasonable point?

Johnny Vinyl · May 24, 2014

rbbert said:
But why? Don't you think that's carrying the anti-digital torch beyond any reasonable point?

How so? I never once proclaimed I was anti-digital.

rbbert · May 24, 2014

If one buys an LP of a digital mastered album as opposed to a digital version (with the same or better resolution than was used for the LP) does that sound like anti-digital? I admit I'm carrying over some of the weirdness from the SH Forums, where at least some people buy LP's made from digital masters because they "sound better" than the CD's played back on their cheap 1980's vintage CD players.

Phelonious Ponk · May 24, 2014

I'm not sure if digital vs vinyl is politics or religion, but it isn't a reasoned debate about audio reproduction. Never has been. If you prefer your old analog masters unsoiled by digital, that's fine by me. Enjoy. And as long as there's a market for it I'm sure some remasters will be made without digital anywhere in the production process. But I sure hope, off to the side somewhere, the real masterworks are being archived to hi-res digital files, because tape is fragile and one day it will be gone.

Tim

Bruce B · May 24, 2014

rbbert said:
If one buys an LP of a digital mastered album as opposed to a digital version (with the same or better resolution than was used for the LP) does that sound like anti-digital? I admit I'm carrying over some of the weirdness from the SH Forums, where at least some people buy LP's made from digital masters because they "sound better" than the CD's played back on their cheap 1980's vintage CD players.

I can take just about any digital file and do a tape layback or route it though an analog console and make it sound better..... to me anyway!

rbbert · May 24, 2014

Bruce B said:
I can take just about any digital file and do a tape layback or route it though an analog console and make it sound better..... to me anyway!

And this is the same Bruce B who has posted that manipulation of a digital file always results in degradation?

Just yanking your chain; if that were completely true there would be no point to mastering...

MylesBAstor · May 24, 2014

I don't buy an LP, esp. reissue albums (except in certain situation where want the music), unless it is explicitly stated comes from the analog masters.

Bruce B · May 24, 2014

rbbert said:
And this is the same Bruce B who has posted that manipulation of a digital file always results in degradation?
Just yanking your chain; if that were completely true there would be no point to mastering...

Yes, manipulation of a digital file always results in degradation if kept in the digital domain!

If it goes into the analog domain, it's no longer a digital file then is it??

Phelonious Ponk · May 24, 2014

Bruce B said:
Yes, manipulation of a digital file always results in degradation if kept in the digital domain!

If it goes into the analog domain, it's no longer a digital file then is it??

It may around better to you, but won't that tape layback, or the routing of that digital file through an analog board always result in degradation?

Tim

Bruce B · May 24, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
It may around better to you, but won't that tape layback, or the routing of that digital file through an analog board always result in degradation?

Tim

Yup! It will degrade that digital file all to hell..!!

XV-1 · May 24, 2014

No

I buy new release vinyl if I like the music. Most recordings today has digital in it somewhere or everywhere.
I certainly don't let that distract me.
The new Mount Eerie album was recorded totally on band camp and all vocals put through autotune. Sounds wonderful on vinyl.

Far too much great new music out there to worry about anything, except how good the music is

Otoh. Reissues of classik albums like the Beatles of upcoming Led Zep. There is no reason not to master the lp in analog. Anything less says more about the attitude of the record company towards its customers than anything

That is why you gotta love Neil Young and his wonderful analog Archiv vinyl reissues and Friday Music with their equally great Elvis Presley vinyl reissues. 50,000,000 fans can't be wrong

Johnny Vinyl · May 25, 2014

XV-1 said:
No

I buy new release vinyl if I like the music. Most recordings today has digital in it somewhere or everywhere.
I certainly don't let that distract me.
The new Mount Eerie album was recorded totally on band camp and all vocals put through autotune. Sounds wonderful on vinyl.

Far too much great new music out there to worry about anything, except how good the music is

Otoh. Reissues of classik albums like the Beatles of upcoming Led Zep. There is no reason not to master the lp in analog. Anything less says more about the attitude of the record company towards its customers than anything

That is why you gotta love Neil Young and his wonderful analog Archiv vinyl reissues and Friday Music with their equally great Elvis Presley vinyl reissues. 50,000,000 fans can't be wrong

I agree completely with this entire post and specifically the bolded?.

FrantzM · May 25, 2014

Bruce B said:
I can take just about any digital file and do a tape layback or route it though an analog console and make it sound better..... to me anyway!

A case of the copy being "better"than the original. Laws of physics be damned

MylesBAstor · May 25, 2014

FrantzM said:
A case of the copy being "better"than the original. Laws of physics be damned

Isn't that assuming the original is the truest? That isn't always the case and the greatest producers/engineers over the years -the Fines, Pfeiffer, RVG, DuNann, Haddy, Wilkie, etc.-had the ears to get the recording to what they thought represented the original event. That's in part what separated them from the also rans. It isn't any different than working with a large format photo, digitally scanning it and then having to color correct.

rbbert · May 25, 2014

There would be no point in doing any mastering if the original were always the "best", but I think there will often be disagreement about the end result of mastering. Running a digital recording through a subsequent analog recording step may result in a "better" sounding recording, at least to some listeners; for sure it will be different from the original, as is true with any mastering process, digital, analog or a mix of both.

MylesBAstor · May 25, 2014

rbbert said:
There would be no point in doing any mastering if the original were always the "best", but I think there will often be disagreement about the end result of mastering. Running a digital recording through a subsequent analog recording step may result in a "better" sounding recording, at least to some listeners; for sure it will be different from the original, as is true with any mastering process, digital, analog or a mix of both.

Might we say that there's basically no recording ever done that hasn't been "doctored?"

Except maybe the 78 rpm d2d recordings?

Do we stop buying vinyl because most new releases incorporate a digital element?

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