I wouldn't be quite so quick to judge. Some people don't have much of a choice because of architectural limitations. They play the hand they're dealt.
Best phono stage?
- Thread starter awsmone
- Start date
I wouldn't be quite so quick to judge. Some people don't have much of a choice because of architectural limitations. They play the hand they're dealt.
Ron I had their single power supply line stage years ago to try. I liked it but I didn't think it was as good as their phono stage. Too much of the same signature. I would try their new one coming out I bet that will be stunning.
Thank you, Jeff. The new Metis is a line stage, I believe. Jim White is quite excited about it! I assume a separate phono stage will follow.
Part of the design brief for the Metis is a smaller footprint (the power supply is vibration-isolated within the line stage's cabinet) but I don't care about how much space the boxes take up.
Metis phono stage + Metis line stage vs. Eclipse with two power supplies will be a very interesting comparison someday!
Part of the design brief for the Metis is a smaller footprint (the power supply is vibration-isolated within the line stage's cabinet) but I don't care about how much space the boxes take up.
Metis phono stage + Metis line stage vs. Eclipse with two power supplies will be a very interesting comparison someday!
I used to own the Callisto Eclipse (with one power supply) where I'm nowadays a dealer of Aesthetix etc. If there's anything I can do for you, please let me know.
/ Marcus
/ Marcus
I am using both the IO and Callisto Eclipse, both with 2 power supplies. The IO is the best phono that I have heard (just to my ears, of course), and the Callisto, while very good, is probably not at the IO's level.
However, when putting both together, there may be too much overlapping in characteristics, resulting in some lost of air. I have substituted the 6922 in the Callisto with Telefunken CCA with very positive result in bring the air back. I am trying to source some Telefunken 12AX7 for the IO.
However, when putting both together, there may be too much overlapping in characteristics, resulting in some lost of air. I have substituted the 6922 in the Callisto with Telefunken CCA with very positive result in bring the air back. I am trying to source some Telefunken 12AX7 for the IO.
Just my two cents:
As Microstrip said, the AR has it all. Their Phono 10 is very forward sounding, even a bit brash (however not completely broken in so far) dynamics galore. true to the music, like it with Jazz, Rock, Pop. The Wavac, given the right tubes (Mullard 50s in this case) has a touch of euphonia, a bit like the Jadis of yore, though less so, wonderful with big orchestral music. Gives it a slight lush, creamy touch, without overdoing it, not like the old Jadis used to. The Zanden 1200 Mk 2 seems the most neutral, compared to the other two, lets you listen deep into the music, is most resolving, but has a tad less dynamics than say the AR. I love it with small Jazz combos or string quartets. Voices are rendered beautifully, with full body. To my ears the best of all, the most "musical", the most "natural", very neutral as far as I can make out and good for all kinds of music is the Lamm LP 1 Signature. Then of course there is the Boulder, which Michael Fremer loved so much. I found it to be excellent in a sort of "audiophile" sense. It has in fact all the requirements which Awsmone had asked for. But if you are an avid concert goer, like myself, you will find something slightly missing, which especially the 3 chassis Lamm excels in: at least some bloom around the instruments, as well as at least some rendering of the hall and the reverbs of the music if it is on the record. The Boulder is a tad dry to my ears and therefore for me the least involving of the bunch. I finde that I listen to the Lamm more than 90% of the time. (No, I do not have an oil well in my back yard, I buy most of my gear used.)
As Microstrip said, the AR has it all. Their Phono 10 is very forward sounding, even a bit brash (however not completely broken in so far) dynamics galore. true to the music, like it with Jazz, Rock, Pop. The Wavac, given the right tubes (Mullard 50s in this case) has a touch of euphonia, a bit like the Jadis of yore, though less so, wonderful with big orchestral music. Gives it a slight lush, creamy touch, without overdoing it, not like the old Jadis used to. The Zanden 1200 Mk 2 seems the most neutral, compared to the other two, lets you listen deep into the music, is most resolving, but has a tad less dynamics than say the AR. I love it with small Jazz combos or string quartets. Voices are rendered beautifully, with full body. To my ears the best of all, the most "musical", the most "natural", very neutral as far as I can make out and good for all kinds of music is the Lamm LP 1 Signature. Then of course there is the Boulder, which Michael Fremer loved so much. I found it to be excellent in a sort of "audiophile" sense. It has in fact all the requirements which Awsmone had asked for. But if you are an avid concert goer, like myself, you will find something slightly missing, which especially the 3 chassis Lamm excels in: at least some bloom around the instruments, as well as at least some rendering of the hall and the reverbs of the music if it is on the record. The Boulder is a tad dry to my ears and therefore for me the least involving of the bunch. I finde that I listen to the Lamm more than 90% of the time. (No, I do not have an oil well in my back yard, I buy most of my gear used.)
I certainly am no expert in comparing different phono stages but I too real enjoy my Lamm LP1 for the very reason Detlof describes
Ah- that is a matter of debate!
IMO a phono section is best off housed within the chassis with the line stage. The reason is connectivity- its the job of the line stage to control the interconnect cable, and whatever circuitry it uses to do that will have to be housed with the phono section if the phono section is a stand-alone unit. Further, the mechanical connections that have to exist at the output of the phono section to the input of the line stage simply cannot compete with hardwired connections. This phenomena is extremely audible and is why we've never offered a stand-alone phono stage. Put in a nutshell you simply can't get them to sound as good.
The usual argument for an external phono section has to do with power supplies, but the fact of the matter is that preamp power supplies do not have nearly the issues with noise and crosstalk that are issues with integrated amps and stereo power amps! Preamps often have regulated power supplies or heavily bypassed supplies so crosstalk noise isn't a problem if the design is at all competent.
Now a reason for having a stand-alone unit anyway is if the unit has EQ settings for non-RIAA curves (perhaps including tape EQs) and thus also has a variety of inputs for different cartridges perhaps on multiple turntables. These things require some real estate that might take up quite a lot of space in a chassis. But if you are only playing stereo records than this is not a concern as they all have the same RIAA curve.
bonzo, I never heard that FMA phono preamp, but it's very high in my "to do" list, specially because of their analog noise reduction scheme!
But I do have lots of experience with darTZeel 18NS and its built-in phono, and I've tried several external preamps, fancy two-box stuff, and the darTZeel was always quieter. I think skipping an entire interface/cable helps lot to a low-level signal such as phono. The lower noise floor helps with increased dynamics as well... It's no coincidence that the 2nd preamp I liked the best was the Soulution, with buiilt-in phono as well.
But I do have lots of experience with darTZeel 18NS and its built-in phono, and I've tried several external preamps, fancy two-box stuff, and the darTZeel was always quieter. I think skipping an entire interface/cable helps lot to a low-level signal such as phono. The lower noise floor helps with increased dynamics as well... It's no coincidence that the 2nd preamp I liked the best was the Soulution, with buiilt-in phono as well.
I think it is good that an all-in-one box avoids an additional set of connectors, cables, etc. That is why I like the single purpose-mindedness of the Aesthetix Io.
having now had my new darTZeel NHB-18NS for a month I cannot imagine a better sounding phono stage. as a one-box pre/phono solution, and being battery powered, you not only eliminate cables and even including power cables (and rack space), but the noise floor is astonishingly low, and the dynamics are equally as remarkable. and mine has a pair of phono stages, one for my stereo arm/cartridge and one for my mono arm/cartridge.
easy to adjust the phono with LED's and a toggle; up to 70db of gain for ultimate flexibility with the lowest gain MC carts.
ease of use, with a remote volume control and easy to read numeric volume readout. swiss built, and solid as a tank.
the perfect preamp? I'd say so. the best of tubes and the best of solid state in terms of presentation balance.
Ralph, this makes sense. Do you offer both solutions to clients, a regular stand alone line stage, and the same line stage with the integrated phono stage? Optimizing what you write, I can see a manufacturer with three products to serve slightly different needs:
1. A stand alone line stage
2. That same line stage with an integrated phono section
3. A stand alone phono section.
The stand alone phono section would be best for someone with two turntables or arms while the integrated pre amp would be for the analog guy with only one tonearm/cartridge who wants the best sounding solution. If he later decides to add another turntable or arm/cartridge, he could then add the dedicated phono for that second analog source. The stand alone line stage would be for the digital only customer.
We are finally going to offer a stand-alone after all these years (the MP-1 was introduced in 1989 so its been a while). This is mostly because customers are asking for it, not because we think it will be better. We've been offering line stages since 1996.
The most impressed I've ever been with a phono stage has been the Soulution linestage/phono. The fact that it was built in could have a lot to do with it.
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