Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

Howie,

I doubt your claims because they are impossible and not backed up with any easily obtainable measurements. I don't doubt you love listening to music. At least I can understand the difference.

Michael.

Priaptor said:
Michael,

Based on these and other threads, it sure seems like you "care what brings other people closer to their music" and you also seem to think there is only one way; your way.

I know you are a gear lover but between all the posts and changing of equipment, "I doubt you" (to quote one of your posts) actually listen to music.

"Enjoy the Music"

Howie

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

Despite the skeptical claims by those who have NO experience with the product, I highly recommend a trial by those of you with an open mind and willing to give it a listen.

I have had 2 panels for two weeks now and a total of 4 for the last 3 days and my preliminary findings, at least with my NOLA CGR Golds are the front wall behind the speakers are where the biggest bang for the buck lies.

allvinyl · May 23, 2014

Stillpoints Aperture Product

jap said:
I'm not questioning the improvements heard by people who have tried the Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels, but I am wondering how Stillpoints could filed for a patent without providing any measurements.

Hi jap - I have no idea how the patent application process works, but I will speak with the principles here and report back.

John

mep · May 23, 2014

What I have gotten out of reading this thread is people who have actually purchased the Stillpoint panels are happy with them. The biggest difference people hear is the focusing of voices if I have read the many posts correctly. The people who have bought these panels on this thread are people who have extremely nice systems and could probably afford to buy any room treatment product they wanted. It appears by what I have read the Stillpoints panels have the greatest effect on the sound in the frequencies above the bottom two octaves. To me, if you start seeing a trend of people who have purchased the Stillpoints soundpanels all claiming that the sound of singers has become much more focused and thus real sounding after installation of the Stillpoints, this information shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

In summary, even if the Stillpoints are later proven to have little effect on frequencies below 80Hz but provide wonderful improvements to the midband and the owner's of the panels love them, does that give people a right to trash these products on this forum? My answer is an emphatic 'NO.' I have seen no published claims from Stillpoints that detail exactly what frequencies are being controlled/affected by their panels and warrants the type of behavior we have seen from someone who has never bought them and tried them in his system. I personally think his behavior has been an injustice to those who have purchased the panels and love them as well as the manufacturer of the panels.

Steve Williams · May 23, 2014

mep said:
What I have gotten out of reading this thread is people who have actually purchased the Stillpoint panels are happy with them. The biggest difference people hear is the focusing of voices if I have read the many posts correctly. The people who have bought these panels on this thread are people who have extremely nice systems and could probably afford to buy any room treatment product they wanted. It appears by what I have read the Stillpoints panels have the greatest effect on the sound in the frequencies above the bottom two octaves. To me, if you start seeing a trend of people who have purchased the Stillpoints soundpanels all claiming that the sound of singers has become much more focused and thus real sounding after installation of the Stillpoints, this information shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

In summary, even if the Stillpoints are later proven to have little effect on frequencies below 80Hz but provide wonderful improvements to the midband and the owner's of the panels love them, does that give people a right to trash these products on this forum? My answer is an emphatic 'NO.' I have seen no published claims from Stillpoints that detail exactly what frequencies are being controlled/affected by their panels and warrants the type of behavior we have seen from someone who has never bought them and tried them in his system. I personally think his behavior has been an injustice to those who have purchased the panels and love them as well as the manufacturer of the panels.

I agree as well Mark. I don't use the panels but respect the members thoughts here who do and find them to be "keepers"in their systems. I have no experience whatsoever with the panels but am definitely wanting to hear a system with these panels in and then removed (or vice versa). To arbitrarily cast aspersion without listening is not the correct way IMHO. I must admit that when I started reading all the hype here on the use of Ultra 5's under speakers caught my attention.I kept asking myself, how could this be until I took the plunge and placed a set of Ultra 5's under my speakers and as I have said before, the change was startling as I was not prepared for what I heard

microstrip · May 23, 2014

Steve Williams said:
I agree as well Mark. I don't use the panels but respect the members thoughts here who do and find them to be "keepers"in their systems. I have no experience whatsoever with the panels but am definitely wanting to hear a system with these panels in and then removed (or vice versa). To arbitrarily cast aspersion without listening is not the correct way IMHO. I must admit that when I started reading all the hype here on the use of Ultra 5's under speakers caught my attention.I kept asking myself, how could this be until I took the plunge and placed a set of Ultra 5's under my speakers and as I have said before, the change was startling as I was not prepared for what I heard

Steve,

You were lucky because REW or similar packages owners did not ask you to show measurements with and without Ultra 5's. BTW, you do not have panels, but have a very large continuous panel with three layers in your listening room! Can you sleep well without looking at the detailed measurements of these materials?

microstrip · May 23, 2014

mep said:
In summary, even if the Stillpoints are later proven to have little effect on frequencies below 80Hz but provide wonderful improvements to the midband (...)

Mark,
It is know that improvements in frequencies in the midband (200 - 300 Hz) are many times also perceived as improvements in bass.

allvinyl · May 23, 2014

Stillpoints Aperture Product

Priaptor said:
Despite the skeptical claims by those who have NO experience with the product, I highly recommend a trial by those of you with an open mind and willing to give it a listen.

I have had 2 panels for two weeks now and a total of 4 for the last 3 days and my preliminary findings, at least with my NOLA CGR Golds are the front wall behind the speakers are where the biggest bang for the buck lies.

In my experiences, I agree with your analysis of the one, best place to start being the wall behind the speakers. Some rooms, systems, and setup don't benefit much from first reflection points because the setup dictates those points aren't in play for the listener at the listening position. We proved that early on in our listening when we flipped the system to the long wall of the test room and found we couldn't realize a benefit at those locations.

An Illinois client I visited recently has 12 panels in his room in stacks of 3 each behind the speakers, at first reflection points, and behind his listening chair which is about 4' from the wall behind him. Lord, can he crank it up now as the LF are so well controlled and as the volume rises the coherence remains where it used to way overload the room and fall apart. Too loud for me (consistently >100) but to each his own...

John

mep · May 23, 2014

microstrip said:
Steve,

You were lucky because REW or similar packages owners did not ask you to show measurements with and without Ultra 5's. BTW, you do not have panels, but have a very large continuous panel with three layers in your listening room! Can you sleep well without looking at the detailed measurements of these materials?

Fransisco- I must admit I was having similarly evil thoughts when I was reading Steve's last post about people coming to his house to hear his system after The Show. I was thinking that Steve could have Ethan and Michael taking measurements and conducting DBTs on all of Steve's tweaks and then waving a fistful of measurements to everyone involved to convince them they didn't hear what they just heard. That could then be followed up by a lecture on "Lies, Damn Lies, and Audio Gear Specs."

dallasjustice · May 23, 2014

mep said:
I have seen no published claims from Stillpoints that detail exactly what frequencies are being controlled/affected by their panels and warrants the type of behavior we have seen from someone who has never bought them and tried them in his system. I personally think his behavior has been an injustice to those who have purchased the panels and love them as well as the manufacturer of the panels.

From Bruce Jacobs via email to me:
"Yes they work great below 200Hz "

Priaptor · May 23, 2014

Steve Williams said:
I agree as well Mark. I don't use the panels but respect the members thoughts here who do and find them to be "keepers"in their systems. I have no experience whatsoever with the panels but am definitely wanting to hear a system with these panels in and then removed (or vice versa). To arbitrarily cast aspersion without listening is not the correct way IMHO. I must admit that when I started reading all the hype here on the use of Ultra 5's under speakers caught my attention.I kept asking myself, how could this be until I took the plunge and placed a set of Ultra 5's under my speakers and as I have said before, the change was startling as I was not prepared for what I heard

Steve

Despite DJ's statement that what I claim is "impossible" and his concrete dogmatic views in his Walter Mitty Audio World, if one dissects the audio spectrum, sonic effects on one portion of the audio spectrum can have huge audible deleterious and/or beneficial effects on others.

Howie

mep · May 23, 2014

microstrip said:
Mark,
It is know that improvements in frequencies in the midband (200 - 300 Hz) are many times also perceived as improvements in bass.

Francisco-I agree with you brother.

mep · May 23, 2014

dallasjustice said:
From Bruce Jacobs via email to me:
"Yes they work great below 200Hz "

That is a general statement that does not make definitive claims for how it affects frequencies below 200 Hz. Next.

allvinyl · May 23, 2014

Stillpoints Aperture Product

Steve - when at shows, this is how we demo the Apertures. First, let them hear the room with the panels, then we remove them. It's a very effective demo.

Steve Williams said:
... I have no experience whatsoever with the panels but am definitely wanting to hear a system with these panels in and then removed (or vice versa)...

Priaptor · May 23, 2014

allvinyl said:
In my experiences, I agree with your analysis of the one, best place to start being the wall behind the speakers. Some rooms, systems, and setup don't benefit much from first reflection points because the setup dictates those points aren't in play for the listener at the listening position. We proved that early on in our listening when we flipped the system to the long wall of the test room and found we couldn't realize a benefit at those locations.

An Illinois client I visited recently has 12 panels in his room in stacks of 3 each behind the speakers, at first reflection points, and behind his listening chair which is about 4' from the wall behind him. Lord, can he crank it up now as the LF are so well controlled and as the volume rises the coherence remains where it used to way overload the room and fall apart. Too loud for me (consistently >100) but to each his own...

John

John

I have a pretty large room that without treatment actually sounds wonderful. However my preference is a "nearfield" environment morphing my large room with minimal interactions into a more intimate environment. I achieved this with some well placed ASC traps. When I tried the Apertures on the first side reflections it sucked some of the life out. Placing those two panels behind and slightly lateral to each speaker appears to be the home run for me. That gives me two stacked and behind my speakers and on each behind and slightly lateral to each speaker with their height bisecting where the center stack is.

I am not done experimenting but I am REALLY liking what they do.

Thanks

Steve Williams · May 23, 2014

allvinyl said:
Steve - when at shows, this is how we demo the Apertures. First, let them hear the room with the panels, then we remove them. It's a very effective demo.

I'm sure it is John. I still cannot believe the look on my face the first time I sat down to listen to my system with Ultra 5's.The change was far from subtle

dallasjustice · May 23, 2014

mep said:
That is a general statement that does not make definitive claims for how it affects frequencies below 200 Hz. Next.

Howie said that with only two little 22"x22"x3" panels "EVERY aspect is more focused, better articulated and precise-from the lowest bass"

In Howie's case, that would be well below the 20hz range. Next.

Priaptor · May 23, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Howie said that with only two little 22"x22"x3" panels "EVERY aspect is more focused, better articulated and precise-from the lowest bass"

In Howie's case, that would be well below the 20hz range. Next.

Michael

You have to be one of the most petulant people I have had the displeasure of exchanging ideas.

Keep measuring. I will choose to listen.

Let us know when you buy your "new best" DAC/amp/speaker/DSP/wire/ or whatever.

I will ignore those too except for a good laugh.

Next!

Steve Williams · May 23, 2014

Now that both of you have gotten your digs in, lets get back on topic

Priaptor · May 23, 2014

Steve Williams said:
I'm sure it is John. I still cannot believe the look on my face the first time I sat down to listen to my system with Ultra 5's.The change was far from subtle

Steve

This similarly will not be subtle. Look forward to you hearing them.

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