Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

LF changes are easily measured. We can all argue about what the measurements mean. But we can't argue that good room treatments reduce ringing (time domain changes) and reduce modal peaks (frequency domain). That's what your competitors show with their testing.

I understand that Stillpoints is new to room acoustics. The fact that you haven't conducted any measurements, yet claim a profound reduction in LF resonance below 200hz, tells me everything I need to know about this product.

All of your would be competitors conduct extensive measurements concerning low frequency absorption/diffusion (whatever you want to call it). This is not a matter of perception. I know that there is some disagreement about how LF measurements should be done. But all manufacturers (even the smaller ones) have that information available and have discussed their results freely and openly online. I can't demand that Stillpoints do what I want.

I understand why you might want to rely on customer rave reviews instead of actual LF measurements. I wouldn't even demo these products based on the lack of information provided and the obviously impossible claims some are making here.

Michael.

allvinyl said:
Hi Michael,

The acoustician/designer has not done any measurements and we believe he is best equipped to complete that task. But that is not to infer that test data is forthcoming.

I am certainly not an acoustician, nor is anyone else at Stillpoints. No flippancy intended... but we wonder what measurements would tell you that the Aperture:
1. Controls LF information providing a perception of increased LF energy
2. Improves image specificity and focus
3. Improves layering and image depth and width
4. Improves dynamic intelligibility

The Aperture's initial placement should start at the boundaries, but we have experimented with them "in" the room to good effect. As noted in previous posts, experimenting is key to finding the best locations in your room. Depending on the individual room and system setup, typical room starting points would be against the wall behind the speakers, first reflection points, and against the wall behind the listener.

John

allvinyl · May 22, 2014

Stillpoints Aperture Product

Hi Priaptor - I don't usually directly interject my "at home" experience. That disclaimer noted... I currently have 3 panels in my system. One behind the speakers on the floor against the wall and one on the floor at each reflection point. I, too, found more than one at the reflection points to close down the overall signature deleting some significant delicate cues. I find the on-the-floor location very effective for controlling LF response. I also have to note that I have not been able to have enough Apertures at any one time to complete the kind of behind the speaker wall treatment, and general experimentation, that Tim(tima) has found most effective in his setup. I am most anxious to be able to try a checkerboard-like setup on that wall having access to 7 or 8 Apertures with which to experiment.

The reason I am intrigued by this setup is that on a couple of occasions, when panels were stacked one on top of each other from the floor up, the image focus seems uneven somehow, like it is concentrated at those places on the wall where the "columns" of Apertures are located. Hence the idea to try spreading them out to cure that issue.

John

Priaptor said:
tima,

I have found exactly the same on my side wall reflections. I will be trying them elsewhere, such as behind each speaker.

microstrip · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
LF changes are easily measured. We can all argue about what the measurements mean. (...)

I think this sentence explains it all. IMHO unless you establish a correlation between sound quality and the correct measurements we are just amusing ourselves looking at the artifacts of measurements in LF.

LL21 · May 22, 2014

allvinyl said:
...The reason I am intrigued by this setup is that on a couple of occasions, when panels were stacked one on top of each other from the floor up, the image focus seems uneven somehow, like it is concentrated at those places on the wall where the "columns" of Apertures are located. Hence the idea to try spreading them out to cure that issue.

John

I agree with this...when I have the center panel between the speakers in front of the flatscreen...I do sense a slight concentration of voices around this...but I suspect that its just that the sound which happens to coincidentally end up here at this central point is reflected better or more strongly or whatever...

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
LF changes are easily measured. We can all argue about what the measurements mean. But we can't argue that good room treatments reduce ringing (time domain changes) and reduce modal peaks (frequency domain). That's what your competitors show with their testing.

I understand that Stillpoints is new to room acoustics. The fact that you haven't conducted any measurements, yet claim a profound reduction in LF resonance below 200hz, tells me everything I need to know about this product.

All of your would be competitors conduct extensive measurements concerning low frequency absorption/diffusion (whatever you want to call it). This is not a matter of perception. I know that there is some disagreement about how LF measurements should be done. But all manufacturers (even the smaller ones) have that information available and have discussed their results freely and openly online. I can't demand that Stillpoints do what I want.

I understand why you might want to rely on customer rave reviews instead of actual LF measurements. I wouldn't even demo these products based on the lack of information provided and the obviously impossible claims some are making here.

Michael.

"obviously impossible claims some are making here"

I recommend you heed your own advice. Read your ludicrous hyperbole on the Totaldac thread or regarding your YG lovefest.

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

That one was for you Howie.

Btw, I don't own the TotalDac anymore. I use a DEQX HDP-4.

Priaptor said:
"obviously impossible claims some are making here"

I recommend you heed your own advice. Read your ludicrous hyperbole on the Totaldac thread or regarding your YG lovefest.

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

Would Aperture work well in a room with the Machina Dynamica Particle Accelerator Ion Gun?

rockitman · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Would Aperture work well in a room with the Machina Dynamica Particle Accelerator Ion Gun?

Counselor...why the rude/disrespect especially to a manufacturer ? I'm sure the measurements you are looking for will eventually be taken. For you to attack Stillpoints with zero listening experience... I think your opinions are a bit premature.

microstrip · May 22, 2014

rockitman said:
Counselor...why the rude/disrespect especially to a manufacturer ? I'm sure the measurements you are looking will eventually be taken. For you to attack Stillpoints with zero listening experience... I think your opinions are a bit premature.

+1! I hope the moderators will deal with it. The presence of manufacturers is an asset to WBF members and such disrespect is unacceptable.

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
That one was for you Howie.

Btw, I don't own the TotalDac anymore. I use a DEQX HDP-4.

Michael

Trust me I know who the comment was meant for.

So Vincent no longer makes "THE PERFECTDAC"?

However I do give you credit for your time and effort and trying to validate the subjective with the objective.

Personally, I can say that my system and search for a system that pleases me has stabilized and I am REALLY enjoying the music rather than the hobby. Whatever turns you on is all that matters.

I understand the skepticism and hence why it took me so long to try them. In fact my system is so awesome now that I hesitate to change anything with the exception of a minor tweak here and there.

Unlike my last home where I had a "custom dedicated" room built from the ground up with some input from Jeff Rowland in this house I kind of stepped into the good fortune and was lucky to have, with minimal treatment, one of the best sounding rooms I have ever been in (with the caveat as it befits my speakers which are open baffle).

This product for me was a worthwhile trial, tweak and purchase. I have been down the voodoo path in my younger years and one of the reasons I got fed up with "the hobby" back in my vinyl days was the utter waste of time playing with new products and tweaks rather than just listening.

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

microstrip said:
+1! I hope the moderators will deal with it. The presence of manufacturers is an asset to WBF members and such disrespect is unacceptable.

Micro,
I thought you were a moderator?

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Would Aperture work well in a room with the Machina Dynamica Particle Accelerator Ion Gun?

There is a fellow by the name of Barry Diament who engaged you as well as the Dirac developer on CA regarding room treatments. Barry is obviously not a believer (at least not yet) in DSP and is quite accomplished and recognized and has some of the best advice out there. So there is more than just your way, beliefs and graphs.

jap · May 22, 2014

I'm not questioning the improvements heard by people who have tried the Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels, but I am wondering how Stillpoints could filed for a patent without providing any measurements.

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

Priaptor said:
There is a fellow by the name of Barry Diament who engaged you as well as the Dirac developer on CA regarding room treatments. Barry is obviously not a believer (at least not yet) in DSP and is quite accomplished and recognized and has some of the best advice out there. So there is more than just your way, beliefs and graphs.

Howie,
I use a microphone, room treatments, speaker positioning, seat positioning, custom room design, DSP, multi subs and great speakers. IOW, I go with all of the above, as long as it works. The room treatments I use are mostly RPG. They are the best, IMO.

Btw, Barry is a super dude and an awesome mastering engineer. I wish there were more like him.

Michael.

MylesBAstor · May 22, 2014

jap said:
I'm not questioning the improvements heard by people who have tried the Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels, but I am wondering how Stillpoints could filed for a patent without providing any measurements.

Same way Bandor got a patent for his cables.

OTOH, we haven't seen the patent filing and don't know that for a fact do we?

microstrip · May 22, 2014

jap said:
I'm not questioning the improvements heard by people who have tried the Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels, but I am wondering how Stillpoints could filed for a patent without providing any measurements.

jap,
You do not need to supply measurements to fill patents - although sometimes they can be included to illustrate and make understood the patent claims.
See this recent patent on Wedge Shaped Acoustic Diffusers. https://www.google.com/patents/US8607925?dq=diffuser+sound+panels+cox&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W4x-U73pHMnR7AbBpYHgAQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Howie,
I use a microphone, room treatments, speaker positioning, seat positioning, custom room design, DSP, multi subs and great speakers. IOW, I go with all of the above, as long as it works. The room treatments I use are mostly RPG. They are the best, IMO.

Btw, Barry is a super dude and an awesome mastering engineer. I wish there were more like him.

Michael.

Yup and he would never use 90% of the stuff you have listed and are so proud of. So there are different strokes for different folks and there are even people who don't like or prefer other room treatments over RPG.

microstrip · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
Micro,
I thought you were a moderator?

Sorry, you though wrong again ...

dallasjustice · May 22, 2014

Priaptor said:
Yup and he would never use 90% of the stuff you have listed and are so proud of. So there are different strokes for different folks and there are even people who don't like or prefer other room treatments over RPG.

That's right Howie. He's a mastering engineer and I am just music lover. Big difference. I don't care what brings other people closer to their music.

Priaptor · May 22, 2014

dallasjustice said:
That's right Howie. He's a mastering engineer and I am just music lover. Big difference. I don't care what brings other people closer to their music.

Michael,

Based on these and other threads, it sure seems like you "care what brings other people closer to their music" and you also seem to think there is only one way; your way.

I know you are a gear lover but between all the posts and changing of equipment, "I doubt you" (to quote one of your posts) actually listen to music.

"Enjoy the Music"

Howie

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