Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels

Bodhi

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My point exactly! :D
 

dallasjustice

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Apr 12, 2011
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Howie,
Normally I don't comment on stuff I haven't experienced. But there are so many red flags with this product, I am only seeing red.

First, every manufacturer of acoustical panels posts test data. I read on CA that you think they are superior to RPG. I have several RPG products including 6 Modex plates which are VPRs and work on pressure. RPG has extensive test data that proves it works in the frequencies it claims. All other manufacturers have controlled test data: GIK, Real Traps etc. Second, Stillpoints has no history building acoustical treatments. Since this is claimed to be new technology, I'm skeptical. Third, there's nothing, nada, zip on the Stillpoints website about this product. This is the one that gets me. If the manufacturer doesn't make any claims, then nobody could ever prove them false, right? And it would be easy to do, IMO.

Bass frequencies are very large. Therefore, you cannot cancel or absorp these frequencies with any effectiveness using small room treatments. Even the worlds thinnest proven bass trap, RPG MODEX PLATE, is 60"x40". And it take several of them in the right places to be effective. I have six of them.

Sorry. The longer this goes on with no REW measurements that demonstrate any changes in LF, the more skeptical I will be.

Michael.

Michael

I like and respect your opinions and would never be so brazen as to denigrate your opinions of something I have never tried such as DIRAC and would ask you to show the same consideration to those of us who have actual hands on experience with these panels.

Try them then comment but what is the point in speculation about something you have no hands on experience with??
 
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Priaptor

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Howie,
Normally I don't comment on stuff I haven't experienced. But there are so many red flags with this product, I am only seeing red.

First, every manufacturer of acoustical panels posts test data. I read on CA that you think they are superior to RPG. I have several RPG products including 6 Modex plates which are VPRs and work on pressure. RPG has extensive test data that proves it works in the frequencies it claims. All other manufacturers have controlled test data: GIK, Real Traps etc. Second, Stillpoints has no history building acoustical treatments. Since this is claimed to be new technology, I'm skeptical. Third, there's nothing, nada, zip on the Stillpoints website about this product. This is the one that gets me. If the manufacturer doesn't make any claims, then nobody could ever prove them false, right? And it would be easy to do, IMO.

Bass frequencies are very large. Therefore, you cannot cancel or absorp these frequencies with any effectiveness using small room treatments. Even the worlds thinnest proven bass trap, RPG MODEX PLATE, is 60"x40". And it take several of them in the right places to be effective. I have six of them.

Sorry. The longer this goes on with no REW measurements that demonstrate any changes in LF, the more skeptical I will be.

Michael.

Since they just got the thing patented, not patent pending, and since these panels are not voodoo as they supposedly were jointly designed with some acoustical technical engineer from Corning we can check exactly what they are. I am sure Stillpoints will be posting more on their site soon.
 

microstrip

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I remain skeptical that they will outperform RPG Skylines which I use with great success. They are certainly more expensive. I can get 2 - 2'x2' Skylines for $350.

You can not compare Skylines with the Stillpoints. Although we do not have data on the Stillpoints, Skylines are mainly diffusers above 560 Hz and have almost no bass absorption, with an absorption peak around 315Hz. Considering the technologies that seem to be involved in the new Stillpoints I would expect that their performance will be very different from simple QRD diffusers.

I have owned the RPG Skylines - about 20 panels and found that, in my room and system, the performance of the RPG diffractals, at about 4 times the price was much better.

As as aside, the velocity/pressure simple paradigm that ruled absorption seems to be broken by new techniques and materials that are being incorporated in modern high quality (and expensive... ) room treatments. Part of this research has been carried at the Fraunhofer IBP (Institute for Building Physics) in Germany URL="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/en/Expertise/Acoustics.html"]http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/en/Expertise/Acoustics.html[/URL]. As far as I know, at less Jack and Steve rooms use these techniques, and I must apologize for not remembering who was the WBF member who was using the RPG Modex Plates.

Most of the time the perceived improvement in the bass is not due to measurable changes in very low frequencies, but changes in the 100 - 300 Hz zone.
 

dallasjustice

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You can not compare Skylines with the Stillpoints. Although we do not have data on the Stillpoints, Skylines are mainly diffusers above 560 Hz and have almost no bass absorption, with an absorption peak around 315Hz. Considering the technologies that seem to be involved in the new Stillpoints I would expect that their performance will be very different from simple QRD diffusers.

I have owned the RPG Skylines - about 20 panels and found that, in my room and system, the performance of the RPG diffractals, at about 4 times the price was much better.

As as aside, the velocity/pressure simple paradigm that ruled absorption seems to be broken by new techniques and materials that are being incorporated in modern high quality (and expensive... ) room treatments. Part of this research has been carried at the Fraunhofer IBP (Institute for Building Physics) in Germany URL="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/en/Expertise/Acoustics.html"]http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/en/Expertise/Acoustics.html[/URL]. As far as I know, at less Jack and Steve rooms use these techniques, and I must apologize for not remembering who was the WBF member who was using the RPG Modex Plates.

Most of the time the perceived improvement in the bass is not due to measurable changes in very low frequencies, but changes in the 100 - 300 Hz zone.
I have 6 Modex plates. They work and there's plenty of science to prove they work as you point out. However, they only work if they are positioned in higher pressure zones for the frequencies that need to be controlled.

Howie,
Your claims speak for themselves. You say you have two small panels and they have a dramatic improvement in low frequency. I doubt it and we will see whether any evidence surfaces that these panels are as effective as your claims imply.

Michael.
 

flyer

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I have owned the RPG Skylines - about 20 panels and found that, in my room and system, the performance of the RPG diffractals, at about 4 times the price was much better.

I find that any acoustical treatment in EPS or alike is having very limited effect compared to wooden diffusers. EPS is by nature too 'transparent', with or without special paint finish.
Skylines can also be bought in wooden finish and I would suspect that these have far more effect compared to EPS ones but their price and weight rocket of course.
I have EPS skylines above and around my listening position and I hate to admit that I barely observed a change between having them in or not. On the other hand, I had a 2" x 3" skyline made of hard plaster material (Jocavi brand) and wherever I put them in my room I could discern their effect!
 

dallasjustice

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Since they just got the thing patented, not patent pending, and since these panels are not voodoo as they supposedly were jointly designed with some acoustical technical engineer from Corning we can check exactly what they are. I am sure Stillpoints will be posting more on their site soon.
Here is the announcement made at RMAF 2013 which was October 9-11, 2013. Bruce Jacobs says that the patent was filed 3 days before. I searched google patent search for applications in that time frame with very broad searches and couldn't find any such application. Do you happen have any information about this patent? I am not saying it doesn't exist. I just can't find it and there's nothing on Stillpoints' website. Furthermore, Bruce Jacobs calls the inventor [AILS], which is not very helpful in doing a patent search. I don't give any credence to a patent award. I am just curious about what the technology is since it's claimed to be brand new technology in the field of acoustics.
 
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bonzo75

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This is not new technology. There are micro-perf panels made by Leading Edge/Kaiser which use something similar. The Stillpoints panels work on a similar concept and are smaller and more WAF. From what I understand there are also commerical panels like Armstrong which are used as clounds in office spaces to keep noise down.
 

Speedskater

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Sep 30, 2010
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Since they just got the thing patented, not patent pending, and since these panels are not voodoo as they supposedly were jointly designed with some acoustical technical engineer from Corning we can check exactly what they are. I am sure Stillpoints will be posting more on their site soon.

A real patent?
What country?
What patent number?
 

Priaptor

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A real patent?
What country?
What patent number?

Hey, all you wise guys can email "Bruce" at:

bruce@stillpoints.us

to get more details. I am an end user and not THE manufacturer so go to the horses mouth. If they are lying, call them out on it.

Unlike Michael and the rest who parses what I and others say, claiming their findings to be absolute while others are BS, go direct to the source and get specifics of the objective data and more definitive specifications if that is your thing. Instead of "doubting" the validity of someone's findings because it doesn't validate one's own perception or interpretation of a chart, just go to the source.

Marc Mickelson from The Audio Beat in his review of the Valhalla 2 I think said it best as it pertains to some:

First, perception isn't a constant -- we all don't have the same ability to appreciate what audio equipment achieves, so there are many people, and even some audiophiles, who simply deny that anything special exists. Second, skeptics who flood Internet forums with negativity don't have listening to music as their hobby. Instead, it's flooding Internet forums with negativity. The bickering is their hobby, not listening to music"

I am not here to bicker, prove anything or engage in "mine is better than yours". I just posted my personal interaction and findings with a product I thought worthy of posting about.
 

bonzo75

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Hey, all you wise guys can email "Bruce" at:

bruce@stillpoints.us

to get more details. I am an end user and not THE manufacturer so go to the horses mouth. If they are lying, call them out on it.

Unlike Michael and the rest who parses what I and others say, claiming their findings to be absolute while others are BS, go direct to the source and get specifics of the objective data and more definitive specifications if that is your thing. Instead of "doubting" the validity of someone's findings because it doesn't validate one's own perception or interpretation of a chart, just go to the source.

Marc Mickelson from The Audio Beat in his review of the Valhalla 2 I think said it best as it pertains to some:

First, perception isn't a constant -- we all don't have the same ability to appreciate what audio equipment achieves, so there are many people, and even some audiophiles, who simply deny that anything special exists. Second, skeptics who flood Internet forums with negativity don't have listening to music as their hobby. Instead, it's flooding Internet forums with negativity. The bickering is their hobby, not listening to music"

I am not here to bicker, prove anything or engage in "mine is better than yours". I just posted my personal interaction and findings with a product I thought worthy of posting about.

Nice post
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Just where would I find the "specifics of the objective data"

If you are "really" interested in them, you could always order some from Music Direct and return them w/in 30 days if you are not satisfied. As far as objective data, I can't help you. I use their ultra products but have no experience with these panels.
 

microstrip

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(...) Sorry. The longer this goes on with no REW measurements that demonstrate any changes in LF, the more skeptical I will be.

Michael.

Michael,
Can I ask what exact type of REW measurement do you want to see to and what will you look in them?
 

Priaptor

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Jan 28, 2012
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If you are "really" interested in them, you could always order some from Music Direct and return them w/in 30 days if you are not satisfied. As far as objective data, I can't help you. I use their ultra products but have no experience with these panels.

They were the first one's I called and told me they didn't have them. I am not sure why but think there is a supply issue right now or it may be a product they won't be carrying.

Just noticed you are from Saratoga! Love it up there.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
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I'm open minded. If they are micro-perforated panels then that is proven technology. However microperforated panels are not anything special, they are just a type of absorber, albeit one that can be realized with no porous material. They are also not very consistent in terms of the way the absorption varies over frequency (high absorption at some frequencies, very little at others).
 

Elliot G.

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Jul 22, 2010
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www.bendingwaveusa.com
Hey, all you wise guys can email "Bruce" at:

bruce@stillpoints.us

to get more details. I am an end user and not THE manufacturer so go to the horses mouth. If they are lying, call them out on it.

Unlike Michael and the rest who parses what I and others say, claiming their findings to be absolute while others are BS, go direct to the source and get specifics of the objective data and more definitive specifications if that is your thing. Instead of "doubting" the validity of someone's findings because it doesn't validate one's own perception or interpretation of a chart, just go to the source.

Marc Mickelson from The Audio Beat in his review of the Valhalla 2 I think said it best as it pertains to some:

First, perception isn't a constant -- we all don't have the same ability to appreciate what audio equipment achieves, so there are many people, and even some audiophiles, who simply deny that anything special exists. Second, skeptics who flood Internet forums with negativity don't have listening to music as their hobby. Instead, it's flooding Internet forums with negativity. The bickering is their hobby, not listening to music"

I am not here to bicker, prove anything or engage in "mine is better than yours". I just posted my personal interaction and findings with a product I thought worthy of posting about.


I dont own it so it stinks.
Mine is better than yours and bigger too, forgot to mention it cost more and its better looking.
I know everything and you dont!
I have no experience but I am an expert.
I know more about your business than you.
I can quote all the numbers even though they are wrong.
I saw it on the internet so its absolutely true!
Why are you wasting your time Priaptor?
thanks for the report although its obviously wrong LOL.
Peace out!
 

Jim Smith

Industry Expert
Dec 14, 2012
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I dont own it so it stinks.
Mine is better than yours and bigger too, forgot to mention it cost more and its better looking.
I know everything and you dont!
I have no experience but I am an expert.
I know more about your business than you.
I can quote all the numbers even though they are wrong.
I saw it on the internet so its absolutely true!
Why are you wasting your time Priaptor?
thanks for the report although its obviously wrong LOL.
Peace out!

:rolleyes:
 

Priaptor

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Jan 28, 2012
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I'm open minded. If they are micro-perforated panels then that is proven technology. However microperforated panels are not anything special, they are just a type of absorber, albeit one that can be realized with no porous material. They are also not very consistent in terms of the way the absorption varies over frequency (high absorption at some frequencies, very little at others).

You state you are "open minded" BUT they go on to say "if they are........." and the rest of your post is condemning an assumption you made about "if they are" which you have no clue if they are or are not, which does not sound very "open minded" to me.
 

Priaptor

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Previously I posted this picture of my room but my post disappeared without explanation. Trying again...


The size and lighter weight of the Apertures allow initial installation using 3M Command strips, which are removable-without-damage velcro-like thingies. The effect of positioning or removing each individual panel is immediately audible.

Very nice. I notice that most of those using these panels are Wilson owners. I heard a rumor and ONLY a rumor that Wilson likes using these things.
 

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