Martin Logan Neolith
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In my experience with ML's the bigger the stator the more holographic the sound. I have not heard the Neolith but I can't imagine they would not send incredible with the right amplification. Look forward to some comments on the sound by people that actually here them.
Neoliths Review at T.H.E. Show
I purchased Martin-Logan Monolith II speakers in 1989. I upgraded to the Monolith IIIs. In 2001 I purchased Prodigys, which I still use today.
I never loved the full-range CLS or the CLX because I find them to be too lacking in dynamics and impact in the 200 to 400 Hz range. I don't know anything about musical instruments so I do not know exactly what goes on in that frequency range, but, to my ears, something important and impactful and realism-creating goes on there.
With the CLX I was missing warmth and impact in that frequency range. I have learned that I prefer a hybrid speaker system in which the panel crosses over to an integrated cone at a higher frequency than the frequency at which a full-range panel (i.e., the CLX) would cross over to external subwoofers.
This explains why I like the Prodigys, which have two 10” cones crossed over at 250 to 400 Hz. This also explains why I liked the Statement E2, whose panel crossed over to eight 7” cone drivers at up to 200 Hz.
I was very excited to be attending my first T.H.E. Show in Irvine, CA this past weekend primarily to hear and see the Neoliths. I literally flew in from London to attend the show so to get as much out of the show as possible I arrived early Friday morning for the ribbon cutting ceremony and stayed until Sunday evening.
On Friday morning I headed straight for the LMC demo room where I was greeted warmly by Mike Ware, the owner of LMC, and Peter Soderberg, Western Regional Sales Manager of ML. I corresponded with Peter several times in advance of the show, and I was happy to meet him in person. Both Mike and Peter were informative, friendly and extremely gracious hosts. Mike’s store in Arizona features not only the Neoliths but also MBL 101 X-tremes and Wilson Alexandria XLFs!
Visually the Neolith is large and impressive in person. At 375 pounds it is much heavier than any prior ML hybrid/cone integrated speaker.
I have been concerned about the affect on quality control wrought by the purchase of ML by a private equity and the relocation of its traditional Lawrence, Kansas manufacturing facility to a Paradigm facility in Canada. My career background is in hedge funds, and I am well aware that sometimes private equity firms understand, buy into, and support the passion and quality control of the entrepreneurial founders whose companies they buy, and sometimes private equity firms simply try to maximize EBITDA. ML’s entry into Best Buy made me concerned that the latter philosophy might be at work here.
I was happy to see, and I am relieved to report, that there is no evidence of any decline in finishing quality or quality control, at least with the Neoliths. The finish on the Neoliths is absolutely gorgeous. Up close the speakers look like they came out of the cabinet factory at Wilson Audio, and I intend that to be extremely high praise. All seams I examined were straight and tight. Among my various character flaws I am a visual perfectionist and I saw nothing cosmetically imperfect.
The Neoliths were bi-amped with pairs of McIntosh MC1.2kw 1200 watt transistor amplifiers. The source was a Linn CD player connected to some streaming system controlled by an Ipad. Unfortunately for me personally there was no tube amplification and no analog source. I say unfortunately because I generally like only tube amplification and I truly like only analog sources.
Mike Ware kindly played several tracks from Famous Blue Raincoat (with which I am very familiar), and which is appropriate since it was recorded digitally to begin with.
I hoped the Neoliths would sound like everything I like about the Prodigys, but, if anything, with higher resolution, greater transparency and greater dynamics. In my opinion the Neoliths are at least slightly higher in resolution than the Prodigys and are at least at transparent as the Prodigys. Exactly how much higher in resolution and more transparent (if they are) are the Neoliths than the Prodigys I do not know how to explain or quantify. It would take much more listening in a quiet room for me to describe and quantify the magnitude of these improvements.
The excitement and the surprise came from an increase in dynamics. The Neoliths possess, to my ears, the most dynamic 48” X 24” electrostatic panel ML has ever produced.
For my listening biases the Neolith is a pretty perfect answer. The 12” cone, crossed over to the panel at between 250 and 400 Hz, provides exactly the impact and oomph which I crave in the 200 to 400 Hz range.
Since I've been listening to Martin Logan hybrid speakers for 26 years, the sound of the Neoliths was extremely familiar to me. It sounded like everything I've always liked about ML’s speakers (transparency, soundstaging, and resolution) but with greater dynamics. The increase in dynamics made the speakers more impressive and more fun than the Prodigys. The 15” ported subwoofer certainly did its part and helped sustain this increase in dynamics.
Finally, while I have never been particularly sensitive to discontinuity between the electrostatic panel and the integrated cone, I think the sound of the electrostatic panel, down to the 12” cone, and then down to the 15” inch cone, was extremely coherent and well-integrated. I heard no discontinuity.
Could this speaker be any better for the kind of sound I like? If we ask this question in the context of a one tower per channel system my answer is no, I do not see how it could be any better. I cannot imagine ML producing a better one column speaker. The Neoliths, for me, are pretty perfect (unless I can somehow imbue them with the dynamics of the big MBLs).
If I have the flexibility to start with a blank slate, I would build my dream speaker by taking the Neolith speaker as it is, and removing the 15” subwoofer. This would leave us with the 48" x 24" electrostatic panel over the 12” woofer in one column. I would add a second 12" woofer in a BalancedForce configuration using the portion of the cabinet where the 15" subwoofer resides. I would then build for each channel a separate, powered subwoofer tower, consisting of three pairs of dual opposed, 15” drivers. This four-column system, a Statement E3, would be my personal dream speaker system.
I may purchase the Neoliths in due course, and then hope for the Statement E3 I envision.
I purchased Martin-Logan Monolith II speakers in 1989. I upgraded to the Monolith IIIs. In 2001 I purchased Prodigys, which I still use today.
I never loved the full-range CLS or the CLX because I find them to be too lacking in dynamics and impact in the 200 to 400 Hz range. I don't know anything about musical instruments so I do not know exactly what goes on in that frequency range, but, to my ears, something important and impactful and realism-creating goes on there.
With the CLX I was missing warmth and impact in that frequency range. I have learned that I prefer a hybrid speaker system in which the panel crosses over to an integrated cone at a higher frequency than the frequency at which a full-range panel (i.e., the CLX) would cross over to external subwoofers.
This explains why I like the Prodigys, which have two 10” cones crossed over at 250 to 400 Hz. This also explains why I liked the Statement E2, whose panel crossed over to eight 7” cone drivers at up to 200 Hz.
I was very excited to be attending my first T.H.E. Show in Irvine, CA this past weekend primarily to hear and see the Neoliths. I literally flew in from London to attend the show so to get as much out of the show as possible I arrived early Friday morning for the ribbon cutting ceremony and stayed until Sunday evening.
On Friday morning I headed straight for the LMC demo room where I was greeted warmly by Mike Ware, the owner of LMC, and Peter Soderberg, Western Regional Sales Manager of ML. I corresponded with Peter several times in advance of the show, and I was happy to meet him in person. Both Mike and Peter were informative, friendly and extremely gracious hosts. Mike’s store in Arizona features not only the Neoliths but also MBL 101 X-tremes and Wilson Alexandria XLFs!
Visually the Neolith is large and impressive in person. At 375 pounds it is much heavier than any prior ML hybrid/cone integrated speaker.
I have been concerned about the affect on quality control wrought by the purchase of ML by a private equity and the relocation of its traditional Lawrence, Kansas manufacturing facility to a Paradigm facility in Canada. My career background is in hedge funds, and I am well aware that sometimes private equity firms understand, buy into, and support the passion and quality control of the entrepreneurial founders whose companies they buy, and sometimes private equity firms simply try to maximize EBITDA. ML’s entry into Best Buy made me concerned that the latter philosophy might be at work here.
I was happy to see, and I am relieved to report, that there is no evidence of any decline in finishing quality or quality control, at least with the Neoliths. The finish on the Neoliths is absolutely gorgeous. Up close the speakers look like they came out of the cabinet factory at Wilson Audio, and I intend that to be extremely high praise. All seams I examined were straight and tight. Among my various character flaws I am a visual perfectionist and I saw nothing cosmetically imperfect.
The Neoliths were bi-amped with pairs of McIntosh MC1.2kw 1200 watt transistor amplifiers. The source was a Linn CD player connected to some streaming system controlled by an Ipad. Unfortunately for me personally there was no tube amplification and no analog source. I say unfortunately because I generally like only tube amplification and I truly like only analog sources.
Mike Ware kindly played several tracks from Famous Blue Raincoat (with which I am very familiar), and which is appropriate since it was recorded digitally to begin with.
I hoped the Neoliths would sound like everything I like about the Prodigys, but, if anything, with higher resolution, greater transparency and greater dynamics. In my opinion the Neoliths are at least slightly higher in resolution than the Prodigys and are at least at transparent as the Prodigys. Exactly how much higher in resolution and more transparent (if they are) are the Neoliths than the Prodigys I do not know how to explain or quantify. It would take much more listening in a quiet room for me to describe and quantify the magnitude of these improvements.
The excitement and the surprise came from an increase in dynamics. The Neoliths possess, to my ears, the most dynamic 48” X 24” electrostatic panel ML has ever produced.
For my listening biases the Neolith is a pretty perfect answer. The 12” cone, crossed over to the panel at between 250 and 400 Hz, provides exactly the impact and oomph which I crave in the 200 to 400 Hz range.
Since I've been listening to Martin Logan hybrid speakers for 26 years, the sound of the Neoliths was extremely familiar to me. It sounded like everything I've always liked about ML’s speakers (transparency, soundstaging, and resolution) but with greater dynamics. The increase in dynamics made the speakers more impressive and more fun than the Prodigys. The 15” ported subwoofer certainly did its part and helped sustain this increase in dynamics.
Finally, while I have never been particularly sensitive to discontinuity between the electrostatic panel and the integrated cone, I think the sound of the electrostatic panel, down to the 12” cone, and then down to the 15” inch cone, was extremely coherent and well-integrated. I heard no discontinuity.
Could this speaker be any better for the kind of sound I like? If we ask this question in the context of a one tower per channel system my answer is no, I do not see how it could be any better. I cannot imagine ML producing a better one column speaker. The Neoliths, for me, are pretty perfect (unless I can somehow imbue them with the dynamics of the big MBLs).
If I have the flexibility to start with a blank slate, I would build my dream speaker by taking the Neolith speaker as it is, and removing the 15” subwoofer. This would leave us with the 48" x 24" electrostatic panel over the 12” woofer in one column. I would add a second 12" woofer in a BalancedForce configuration using the portion of the cabinet where the 15" subwoofer resides. I would then build for each channel a separate, powered subwoofer tower, consisting of three pairs of dual opposed, 15” drivers. This four-column system, a Statement E3, would be my personal dream speaker system.
I may purchase the Neoliths in due course, and then hope for the Statement E3 I envision.
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Thanks Ron, very informative. Any sign of port chuffing or other artifacts?
@VFA: Hi there; never been to Nantucket, too expensive; I prefer spending the money on fuses, ugh
@VFA: Hi there; never been to Nantucket, too expensive; I prefer spending the money on fuses, ugh
I thought the Neoliths at THE Show were very impressive and as Ron says did everything I want from a speaker except... Unfortunately the room power (two 20 amp circuits for everything) wouldn't allow the system volume to be tested (with 4 MC1.2's for amplification, not even considering all the other components), and of course what happens to the sound at volume is always a challenge for electrostatics. Even when they are using a dynamic woofer to take the load off the panels, the potential dynamic/stat discontinuity is challenged.
Good to meet you Ron even is so very briefly, and thanks for straightening me out on the differences between those Basis 'tables
Good to meet you Ron even is so very briefly, and thanks for straightening me out on the differences between those Basis 'tables
Fantastic news, Ron...great to hear it and glad you found it to be most everything you are hoping for. Will be interesting to hear your further thoughts when presumably you get them in for an in-home audition. When?
RonR, thanks for the extensive and clear review.
Funny, because the Neolith has the same panel as the Monolith III. Slightly different spar spacing but same stators and Mylar as the Monolith replacement panels (I got some new ones in 2006), so I think what you heard is the much improved modern crossover and ESL step-up transformer in the Neolith.
I run my panels without any passive crossover (I use an active speaker processor) and I can vouch that those big panels have incredible dynamics as long as you cross them over high enough (315Hz 24dB/octave in my case) and feed them with a capable amp (Sanders ESL amps).
Another reason for the improved dynamics of the Neolith is that the factory seems to have come around to my way of thinking and used a mid-bass focused 12” driver and crossover arrangement. That is the secret to good strong mid-bass. My Monoliths feature and aftermarket driver selected for its performance in the 60 to 500hz range, and along with the steep crossovers and just as importantly, phase and delay adjustments results in perfect impulse response alignment between panel and woofer.
It’s a shame the Neolith did not go full active, as the performance would surely be a step up in terms of cohesion.
Similarly, I think a variant of the Neolith using a full active crossover, that loses the 15” LF driver, and comes packaged with a pair of Balanced Force 212 subs that integrate with the active crossover so PBK can align and correct the entire <200Hz range in-room would be a great single column system.
Agreed that an E3 statement would be (taller?) Neolith panels plus Balanced Force towers, but I’d use five dual-opposed 10” drivers per tower. Mostly because I know that to get the best in-room <60Hz performance, a set of two or four Balanced Force 15” driver based subs managed via a master speaker processor would be the hot ticket.
BTW- ELS + line array of mid-bass woofers makes a killer center speaker, see my custom SL3XC.
Funny, because the Neolith has the same panel as the Monolith III. Slightly different spar spacing but same stators and Mylar as the Monolith replacement panels (I got some new ones in 2006), so I think what you heard is the much improved modern crossover and ESL step-up transformer in the Neolith.
I run my panels without any passive crossover (I use an active speaker processor) and I can vouch that those big panels have incredible dynamics as long as you cross them over high enough (315Hz 24dB/octave in my case) and feed them with a capable amp (Sanders ESL amps).
Another reason for the improved dynamics of the Neolith is that the factory seems to have come around to my way of thinking and used a mid-bass focused 12” driver and crossover arrangement. That is the secret to good strong mid-bass. My Monoliths feature and aftermarket driver selected for its performance in the 60 to 500hz range, and along with the steep crossovers and just as importantly, phase and delay adjustments results in perfect impulse response alignment between panel and woofer.
It’s a shame the Neolith did not go full active, as the performance would surely be a step up in terms of cohesion.
Similarly, I think a variant of the Neolith using a full active crossover, that loses the 15” LF driver, and comes packaged with a pair of Balanced Force 212 subs that integrate with the active crossover so PBK can align and correct the entire <200Hz range in-room would be a great single column system.
Agreed that an E3 statement would be (taller?) Neolith panels plus Balanced Force towers, but I’d use five dual-opposed 10” drivers per tower. Mostly because I know that to get the best in-room <60Hz performance, a set of two or four Balanced Force 15” driver based subs managed via a master speaker processor would be the hot ticket.
BTW- ELS + line array of mid-bass woofers makes a killer center speaker, see my custom SL3XC.
VFA, Ack and JonFo, thank you for the favorable comments on the review!
JonFo, We seem to have to same preference in sound and mid-bass impact. I agree with you about the active crossover and I am sure ML will offer that option on the Neoliths. Your center channel is very clever and must sound great!
JonFo, We seem to have to same preference in sound and mid-bass impact. I agree with you about the active crossover and I am sure ML will offer that option on the Neoliths. Your center channel is very clever and must sound great!
In Poland few days ago was Audio Show, second biggest in Europe. There was presentation of Martin Logan Neolith too. I couldn't be there that time but i asked many people who was there and listened to Neolith. All of them...ALL!!...told me that it was horrible sound!! Dramatically bad, not natural, caricature size of stage, many distortion in mid range, horrible-techno-disco bass like from subwoofers, incoherent sound, bass plays separately, rest ranges separately. I was interested in this speakers but now i canceled it from my list of wish.
Except for the ML Statement e2 that I only heard once , I never heard a ML that was incapable of having a bad day. It could have been in the wrong room, associated with the wrong equipment. It is possible it is just a bad design. Your description sounds like the ML "rap". That is certain speakers suffer from a reputation that is hard to shake. i recall telling people the bad things you hear are the result of a transparency on the part of ML that most speakers just do not possess. In all likelihood it was somethng other than the Neolith the did not like. The Neolith simply allowed the faults to shine through.
Go listen for yourself.
Go listen for yourself.
Reveiw ML Neolith By AUdioholics
http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/martinlogan-neolith-loudspeaker-review
http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/martinlogan-neolith-loudspeaker-review
I have a pair of reQuest (1998) with 12" sealed passive woofers.
http://www.martinlogan.com/products/request#specs
http://www.martinlogan.com/neolith/specof ts.php It is the absolute sound product of the year.Secifications list a three way speaker. Dnamic drivers have the sound all the way to 400 hz. Impedance is a nomjnal 4 ohms and 0.43 at 2okz. That should limit the choice of amplifiers. It does appear they attepmtd to work around MsL problems rather than solve them
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