Adjusting The VTA On The Fly

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Peter, you need a turntable that can accommodate 2 arms.
3 is better, if possible.

The other table that I contemplated getting, the Technics SP10 MK3, does have this option with the right plinth. Two arms only interest me if I could have one set up for mono and one for stereo. But then, I'm not sure I would want to spend the money to have the options. I'm not really interested in multiple arms and cartridges for different presentations. The only regular decision I want to make in this hobby is what LP to play.

I prefer to concentrate my budget on the few best components that I can buy, given the context of my system, my budget, my taste and my limited experience and exposure. Towards that end, I have focused on analog LP only and not pursued digital or analog tape.

In the end, I decided to get the SME for its performance and understand that offering only one arm location is one of its shortcomings.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Peter, you need a turntable that can accommodate 2 arms.
3 is better, if possible.

my bet (and i put my money where my mouth is) is to spend the $$$'s for the three arms on one great arm and forget all the messing around with variable VTA. that's the best sound.

just my opinion, of course.

i do have a second arm for mono.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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my bet (and i put my money where my mouth is) is to spend the $$$'s for the three arms on one great arm and forget all the messing around with variable VTA. that's the best sound.

just my opinion, of course.

i do have a second arm for mono.

I tried to convey this same sentiment, but did not do so as clearly. Thanks Mike.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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my bet (and i put my money where my mouth is) is to spend the $$$'s for the three arms on one great arm and forget all the messing around with variable VTA. that's the best sound.

just my opinion, of course.

i do have a second arm for mono.

The reason I need a second arm is similar - I want to have one with a less expensive cartridge for playing LPs that are from dubious source. Also my RIAA unit has two inputs - I feel guilty keeping one of them empty! :)
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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my bet (and i put my money where my mouth is) is to spend the $$$'s for the three arms on one great arm and forget all the messing around with variable VTA. that's the best sound.

just my opinion, of course.

i do have a second arm for mono.

$$$'s don't mean better, plenty of glorified chopsticks costing thousands out there...
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Well this thread has gone in a whole nother direction thanks guys!!!

Welcome to WBF. I started a thread about expectation bias and now it's a thread about headphones compared to speakers.
 

mep

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$$$'s don't mean better, plenty of glorified chopsticks costing thousands out there...

So don't buy chopsticks and buy a great arm.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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LOL!!! Oh yea I know that's why I don't come here very often any more same ole same ole it never changes!!!

Actually, it's ok. Threads tend to take on a life of their own assuming they were worth a damn to begin with.
 

jcmusic

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May 20, 2010
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Peter,
Nice of you to ask, yes I made some progress. I adjusted the SRA a bit and got quite an improvement in sound quality, to the point that now I have to keep going until I get it perfect. I was blown away by the difference and all this time I thought I had it right!! Jeez!!!
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Peter,
Nice of you to ask, yes I made some progress. I adjusted the SRA a bit and got quite an improvement in sound quality, to the point that now I have to keep going until I get it perfect. I was blown away by the difference and all this time I thought I had it right!! Jeez!!!

You may or may not find that a setting that sounds good for one LP may to be the best setting for another LP. Depending on how involved you want to become, you may just want to find the best average setting for a variety of your favorite LPs. If you want to spend the time and have easily adjustable VTA and you hear a significant enough difference, you may end up wanting to adjust for each LP. That is entirely up to you.

As I mentioned earlier, I listen to the timing of the note and the relationship of its fundamental to its harmonics. If you find the harmonics obscuring or overlapping slightly the beginning or transient of a note, I lower the arm slightly. This increases the timing. If the harmonics seem to be delayed in time relative to the fundamental, then I raise the arm slightly. This shortens the duration of the note. I find listening to harpsichord or mandolin makes this timing relationship easy to hear. Anything that has a strong plucked sound followed by well developed decay. Piano and percussion and even bass are also pretty good. However, for string or wind instruments, or for vocals, it is much more difficult to hear this. So in those cases, I tend to listen for focus, detail, separation and how well the sound fills the room and how natural it sounds. In the end, when it is right, it should sound natural and convincing.

Remember, as you alter VTA, overhang and VTF also change, so you may want to go back and forth adjusting things and really fine tuning everything. Azimuth and Zenith are also important, and there should be separate threads on the net or this forum which discuss those in some detail. Patience is key and a willingness to listen and learn how certain changes effect the overall sound. The reward comes in better sound and it is free. You can also ask a few friends to get involved and discuss what you hear as your experiment.
 
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theophile

Well-Known Member
I never knew that Flies had adjustable VTA. Oh wait! Of course:

Vertical Take (off) And (Landing).
 

oldears

New Member
Jun 8, 2014
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Just a thought. I hope you all reset the stylus force after each adjustment of tonearm angle/VTA/SRA, with some arms Kuzma 4 point for instance adjusting the VTA makes quite a big differences to tracking force. I wonder if the change in sound is largely due to alterations in tracking force,rather than changes in VTA. My favourite articles on the subject are below for interest, they seem to be well referenced and reasoned.

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yosh/vta.htm

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html

I agree with you PeterA, each adjustment changes everything else as well as what we are trying to adjust for, and it is hard to apportion "blame" on only one of the factors, unless you control for all the others. By definition adjusting VTA on the fly, implies not adjusting for anything else. In my experience changes or perceived benefits on back to back comparisons of short duration seldom stand the test of time.
I can see the wood being chopped, and the stake prepared:)
 

jeromelang

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2011
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i do have a second arm for mono.

Alas, my current sony pre-amp doesn't have a mono switch.
I always wonder what happens when I summerize the left and right channels of my ELP.
Will it improve the palpability of the centre fill image further...?

I do have another sony pre amp lying somewhere unused.
It has a mono switch, but I'll need to run it through a step down transformer in order to use that pre amp.

What I would like is a switch that allows me to select either the left only or the right only channel.
That would be so cool.
I would be able to choose the quieter side of the groove to listen to.
Only seen it on a cheaper, older, sony integrated amp.....
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
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Seattle area
Just a thought. I hope you all reset the stylus force after each adjustment of tonearm angle/VTA/SRA, with some arms Kuzma 4 point for instance adjusting the VTA makes quite a big differences to tracking force. I wonder if the change in sound is largely due to alterations in tracking force,rather than changes in VTA. My favourite articles on the subject are below for interest, they seem to be well referenced and reasoned.

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yosh/vta.htm

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html

I agree with you PeterA, each adjustment changes everything else as well as what we are trying to adjust for, and it is hard to apportion "blame" on only one of the factors, unless you control for all the others. By definition adjusting VTA on the fly, implies not adjusting for anything else. In my experience changes or perceived benefits on back to back comparisons of short duration seldom stand the test of time.
I can see the wood being chopped, and the stake prepared:)

Totally agree with you on this. Until someone designs a tonearm that independently adjusts each variable without effecting the others (likely impossible) then we will never know exactly what variable is responsible for what.
 

theophile

Well-Known Member
bruce b got it right in post #6. a remotely controlled vernier adjuster would be ideal in either the sweet spot or with headphones. those of you that know David Shreve will get a kick out of knowing that he thought i was NUTS for thinking of that. and he is a true VTA freak.
Max Townshend designed a remotely controlled VTA adjustable tonearm 15 years ago.
 

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