Adjusting The VTA On The Fly

jcmusic

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Should I be able to hear the change in sound when adjusting the VTA on the fly? I should start with a level to the record surface arm and adjust a little up or down and listen for the sweet spot, correct?
 

Bruce B

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The best way to do it is to have someone else adjust the VTA up/down while you're sitting in the sweet spot. And yes, level to the record surface and to me, I try down first.
 

PeterA

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Depending on how fussy you are, you may also find that the best VTA or SRA setting varies with different LPs. And this does not necessarily correspond to different LP thicknesses. I listen for the relationship between the fundamental of the note and its harmonics. That should sound as natural as possible. It is a timing thing, not a tonal balance thing, IMO. I change VTA for each LP and I don't have VTA on the fly on my SME arm, but I do find it is worth the effort. I have made note of the best setting for about 300 of my LPs so far.
 

MylesBAstor

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Depending on how fussy you are, you may also find that the best VTA or SRA setting varies with different LPs. And this does not necessarily correspond to different LP thicknesses. I listen for the relationship between the fundamental of the note and its harmonics. That should sound as natural as possible. It is a timing thing, not a tonal balance thing, IMO. I change VTA for each LP and I don't have VTA on the fly on my SME arm, but I do find it is worth the effort. I have made note of the best setting for about 300 of my LPs so far.

To get things rolling, I like to listen for the solidity of the center image using say voice or solo instrument like a piano or guitar. When the VTA/SRA is right, the image snaps into focus. Not any different than focusing a camera. Another means is choosing a recording with lots of real or artificial ambience (say like a three blind mice recording) and listen for when you begin to get the max. levels of retrieval. Another reviewer I knew and trusted used to listen for image height.

Of course, we could get into a discussion of whether it's still a band-aid since we don't have the right EQ applied. :)
 

jeromelang

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I once dream of owning a TT with two arms - one for 120g and one for 180/200g - and fitted with two same cartridges.

Eventually I got one that adjust vta automatically.

Wait a minute, it doesn't even need to adjust anything, actually.....
 

Bruce B

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The cool thing would be a micro drive motor on the VTA with remote!!
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Should I be able to hear the change in sound when adjusting the VTA on the fly? I should start with a level to the record surface arm and adjust a little up or down and listen for the sweet spot, correct?
That's correct, only you must have a way to accurately track the changes. You can hear on the fly changes to VTA if your arm allows it. You should note that some cartridges are more sensitive to VTA than others and have a much narrower sweet spot.
david
 
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MylesBAstor

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Mike Lavigne

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i've owned a few arms that allowed VTA adjustment on the fly, which did allow for a somewhat faster method to find the sweet spot. but the mechanical mechanism that allows for that ability does exact a sonic penalty when all is said and done. the best of those arms in that respect was the linear tracker of the Rockport Sirius III, which was a very heavy stainless steel tonearm tower where you would loosen a set screw and be able to move the arm assembly up and down while listening, then retighten when you found the right spot. very elegant and simple to use. the Triplaner VII also was quite easy if not in the same ballpark in terms of elegance or solidity.

in the system with Rockport i found other arms that took a simpler approach, not as quick and easy, performed better. any mechanical compromise becomes a sonic compromise as performance moves higher.

it becomes a philosphical/preference question. do you eliminate compromise mechanically and give up frequent/easy VTA adjustment, or do you prefer to dial in VTA record by record and accept mechanical compromise?

i'm in the no mechanical compromise camp. the higher resolution of those no mechanical compromise arms yield higher levels of information that helps to find the right setting easier. so even though you cannot do it dynamically it's easy to hear when you are there.
 
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mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Depending on how fussy you are, you may also find that the best VTA or SRA setting varies with different LPs. And this does not necessarily correspond to different LP thicknesses. I listen for the relationship between the fundamental of the note and its harmonics. That should sound as natural as possible. It is a timing thing, not a tonal balance thing, IMO. I change VTA for each LP and I don't have VTA on the fly on my SME arm, but I do find it is worth the effort. I have made note of the best setting for about 300 of my LPs so far.

That is the road to madness.
 

PeterA

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That is the road to madness.

Perhaps, but the hatter is happy. It takes about 30 seconds, and I often listen to LPs with the same setting in succession. I change the VTA setting about 2-3 times per evening. I also clean the stylus before each play. It's not that big a deal, really. And it does sound better.

Most of my 45s sound better than my 33s. That means if I want to listen to some of those treasured recordings, I have to get up from the couch twice as often. What a hassle. My digital buddies just flip through their iPads, never leave the sofa, and often only listen to parts of songs. Each to his own, I guess.
 

mep

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Perhaps, but the hatter is happy. It takes about 30 seconds, and I often listen to LPs with the same setting in succession. I change the VTA setting about 2-3 times per evening. I also clean the stylus before each play. It's not that big a deal, really. And it does sound better.

Most of my 45s sound better than my 33s. That means if I want to listen to some of those treasured recordings, I have to get up from the couch twice as often. What a hassle. My digital buddies just flip through their iPads, never leave the sofa, and often only listen to parts of songs. Each to his own, I guess.

Peter-You went from changing VTA for every record played to changing 2-3 per session. I clean every LP before I play it and I clean the stylus every time before I play a record as well. I'll be damned if I'm going to change the VTA for every record though. And yeah, I listen to lots of 45 RPM recordings as well and I don't care that I have to get up more often either.
 

PeterA

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Peter-You went from changing VTA for every record played to changing 2-3 per session. I clean every LP before I play it and I clean the stylus every time before I play a record as well. I'll be damned if I'm going to change the VTA for every record though. And yeah, I listen to lots of 45 RPM recordings as well and I don't care that I have to get up more often either.

I have five different VTA settings so far in my LP collection. These cover a range of 2mm, in 1/2mm increments. This is independent of record thickness. With my 12" arm, a 1mm change corresponds to slightly less than a 1/4 degree of SRA. Perhaps mad as you suggested, but the differences are clearly audible. This is why I don't agree with MF who advocates a 92 degree SRA. It may be a good general average setting for someone who does not want to fuss with this, but I have found that gains can be realized with tiny changes.

If I happen to play three LPs with the same setting concurrently, then I don't need to change the VTA between each of those LPs. In a typical evening I may listen to five or six LP sides, which, depending on the order of play, means I only may change the setting two or three times. What I tried to get across is that I make sure my arm is at the proper setting for each of my LPs. I've placed a slip of paper, with the VTA setting written on it, inside the outer sleeve of each of my LPs, so I just confirm the height using a gauge and often don't have to make an adjustment. For example, if I play two LPs that have the same setting of 17mm, I obviously don't have to change anything or even check anything between playing those two LPs. I don't listen to adjust VTA before each play. That, indeed, would be madness. I do that listening only once and it can be a tedious process to determine the proper setting. But once I have it, I record it for future reference. These settings will be fine until either the cartridge suspension goes, or I replace my arm or cartridge.

Incidentally, I stopped cleaning each LP before play when I went from my quick VPI 16.5/one fluid process to the much more effective Loricraft/4-step fluid regimen a few years ago. Now I only clean the record once, thoroughly, when I buy it and then place it in new inner and outer sleeves. That is sufficient.

Analog is a bit more of an effort, but it is well worth it, IMO
 

PeterA

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it becomes a philosphical/preference question. do you eliminate compromise mechanically and give up frequent/easy VTA adjustment, or do you prefer to dial in VTA record by record and accept mechanical compromise?

i'm in the no mechanical compromise camp. the higher resolution of those no mechanical compromise arms yield higher levels of information that helps to find the right setting easier. so even though you cannot do it dynamically it's easy to hear when you are there.

Mike, I completely agree with this, but it does not need to be an "either/or" situation. One can choose to have the rigid mechanical connection with less convenient VTA adjustment and still choose to adjust VTA for different settings depending on the LP. My SME arm looks as though it is in the same camp as your Telos. One has to loosen one or two set screws from an extremely rigid post/collar-armboard connection, and move the arm up or down. Then confirm the height using a scale and re lock the clamp. Not as easy or "on-the-fly" as on the Talea or TriPlanar, but the more rigid mechanical connection makes an audible difference for energy drainage/dissipation.

Admittedly, it's hard for the user to do the direct comparison and isolate the effects of the arm-tower to arm-board connection versus the offset VTA tower type design, but the tonearm designers must compare these aspects of a design and then decide which compromise is most appropriate for the design. I'm sure Joel Durand has very developed opinions on this subject, as do the designers at SME.
 

PeterA

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How do you track those 1/2mm increments on the SME VTA threader? Do you have a mark for a baseline?

Agree with that last sentence!

I use the mm scale on the side of the SME paper protractor to measure from the top of the arm board to the bottom of the arm rest structure support. The range I use is 16-18 mm. I'm looking for some metal gauges that will make this easier and quicker, but this method works great in the meantime. I'm not aware of anyone else adjusting the SME arms for VTA so often, so it's a bit of an anomaly.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I use the mm scale on the side of the SME paper protractor to measure from the top of the arm board to the bottom of the arm rest structure support. The range I use is 16-18 mm. I'm looking for some metal gauges that will make this easier and quicker, but this method works great in the meantime. I'm not aware of anyone else adjusting the SME arms for VTA so often, so it's a bit of an anomaly.

Digital internal caliper?
 

jeromelang

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Dec 26, 2011
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I have five different VTA settings so far in my LP collection. These cover a range of 2mm, in 1/2mm increments. This is independent of record thickness. With my 12" arm, a 1mm change corresponds to slightly less than a 1/4 degree of SRA. Perhaps mad as you suggested, but the differences are clearly audible. This is why I don't agree with MF who advocates a 92 degree SRA. It may be a good general average setting for someone who does not want to fuss with this, but I have found that gains can be realized with tiny changes.

If I happen to play three LPs with the same setting concurrently, then I don't need to change the VTA between each of those LPs. In a typical evening I may listen to five or six LP sides, which, depending on the order of play, means I only may change the setting two or three times. What I tried to get across is that I make sure my arm is at the proper setting for each of my LPs. I've placed a slip of paper, with the VTA setting written on it, inside the outer sleeve of each of my LPs, so I just confirm the height using a gauge and often don't have to make an adjustment. For example, if I play two LPs that have the same setting of 17mm, I obviously don't have to change anything or even check anything between playing those two LPs. I don't listen to adjust VTA before each play. That, indeed, would be madness. I do that listening only once and it can be a tedious process to determine the proper setting. But once I have it, I record it for future reference. These settings will be fine until either the cartridge suspension goes, or I replace my arm or cartridge.

Incidentally, I stopped cleaning each LP before play when I went from my quick VPI 16.5/one fluid process to the much more effective Loricraft/4-step fluid regimen a few years ago. Now I only clean the record once, thoroughly, when I buy it and then place it in new inner and outer sleeves. That is sufficient.

Analog is a bit more of an effort, but it is well worth it, IMO


Peter, you need a turntable that can accommodate 2 arms.
3 is better, if possible.
 

microstrip

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Peter, you need a turntable that can accommodate 2 arms.
3 is better, if possible.

It is my only objection to my SME30. I even bought an high quality TW armboard to add a Graham to it, but still did not have the courage needed to have a tapered hole drilled in the SME30 plinth.
 

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