Lampizator DSD DAC

wisnon · Jan 28, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Those are two different observations. I do believe the CD is still a valid format worldwide, but I was talking about the tracking, mixing, and mastering end.

Then we have no disagreement really, and I am sure Lukasz was talking about commercial release format and not studio working format.

Even to get RBCD at its best, you need high rate working formats before cutting down to CDs.

The argument about Pono is the obseesion with Hires format and no/less focus on chain of custody, battling the loudness war and going back to the best archival masters and getting these to whatever release formats while handling them with kids gloves. Right now Pono guarnatees us frack all.

Andre Marc · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
Then we have no disagreement really, and I am sure Lukasz was talking about commercial release format and not studio working format.

Even to get RBCD at its best, you need high rate working formats before cutting down to CDs.

The argument about Pono is the obseesion with Hires format and no/less focus on chain of custody, battling the loudness war and going back to the best archival masters and getting these to whatever release formats while handling them with kids gloves. Right now Pono guarnatees us frack all.

Then Lukasz should clarify his statements IMO.

As far as Pono, they can only sell what the artists, engineers, and labels provide. Period.

But...you have to look at the bigger picture..they are creating awareness for better quality...and
this is what you may not know..they are encouraging legacy artists to remaster their catalogs
with more dynamic range, and trying to encourage younger artists to make better recordings
and bail out of the loudness wars.

it is all good.

Hiro · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
The argument about Pono is the obseesion with Hires format and no/less focus on chain of custody

If that is so, then it's a straw man argument, as no hi-res supporter is focused on the format to the exclusion of other aspects of recording process and audio playback.

Hiro · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
Dont worry, if not widely licensed out for cheap like "Dolby" it will die a quick death, no matter how good it is. There is no commercial room for a new, exclusive format!

Lossless compression is nothing new. And apodizing filters are available in computer software. No need to re-buy everything in Meridian's new proprietary format.

wisnon · Jan 28, 2015

Hiro, they claim they do a clean up BEFORE applying the apodising filters. THAT would be the key..

Also, there is no other lossless compression that can fold 24/192 into 16/44 shape...and that is assuming MQN can...they claim to be "audibly" lossless.

wisnon · Jan 28, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Then Lukasz should clarify his statements IMO.

As far as Pono, they can only sell what the artists, engineers, and labels provide. Period.

But...you have to look at the bigger picture..they are creating awareness for better quality...and
this is what you may not know..they are encouraging legacy artists to remaster their catalogs
with more dynamic range, and trying to encourage younger artists to make better recordings
and bail out of the loudness wars.

it is all good.

Lukasz did a 80 min interview and got 2 lines...a losing battle trying to clarify anything there.

Re, Pono, yes I know about that too, but its not pushed as hard as it should be.

I am not anti-pono and think there is space for them in the market too, if marketed smartly.

Meridian claims that they reverse damage done, fix everything, fold up the hires into a streamable size and then get the artists to digitally sign the re-release so you cant be fooled by upsampled redbook stuff. Provenace guaranteed!

That is the spiel, lets see what the reality brings....Lol

Hiro · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
Hiro, they claim they do a clean up BEFORE applying the apodising filters. THAT would be the key..

Somehow I don't see cleaning of 24/192 masters as a big selling point to the average consumer.

wisnon said:
Also, there is no other lossless compression that can fold 24/192 into 16/44 shape...and that is assuming MQN can...they claim to be "audibly" lossless.

I smell a catch there, with the "audibly" part.

Andre Marc · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
Lukasz did a 80 min interview and got 2 lines...a losing battle trying to clarify anything there.

Re, Pono, yes I know about that too, but its not pushed as hard as it should be.

I am not anti-pono and think there is space for them in the market too, if marketed smartly.

MQN claims that they reverse damage done, fix everything, fold up the hires into a streamable size and then get the artists to digitally sign the re-release so you cant be fooled by upsampled redbook stuff. Provenace guaranteed!

That is the spiel, lets see what the reality brings....Lol

Ok, noted about the interview..yes it is true that often one or two lines are taken out of context.

there is space for them in the market too, if marketed smartly...

yes, i agree with above, but not only must it be marketed smartly, but they should deliver on their
promise to be just a bit better than their peers.

wisnon · Jan 28, 2015

HIRO: Well since they are not technically lossless, perhaps the gains of master cleaning will compesate for the compression and they will be virtually the same as present hires and maybe even a bit ahead. that is the only hope they have…

Andre: Totally agree!

Hiro · Jan 28, 2015

Wisnon, I'm curious why Neil Young decided to end Pono's collaboration with Meridian, was he opposed to introducing yet another closed format on the market, or did Meridian's licensing fees prove a deal-breaker...

wisnon · Jan 28, 2015

Good question!

Did you see this?

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/price-and-prejudice-ponos-ongoing-uphill-battle/

Hiro · Jan 28, 2015

wisnon said:
Good question!

Did you see this?

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/price-and-prejudice-ponos-ongoing-uphill-battle/

Yes. And I agree that hi-res files should be cheaper, especially the PCM ones. But with new proprietary formats like MQA their prices may only go up, due to extra licensing fees typically associated with them.

Elberoth · Feb 16, 2015

MLGrado said:
Download ASIO proxy, latest version from Soundforge from this link. ( I am not sure if you need to have foobar installed first, you may or may not.)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_dsd_asio/

Did anyone make this work on lampi ?

wisnon · Feb 16, 2015

Adam,

Go ask K6Davis or Jabs over at CompAudiophile as they are DSD Dac ownecrs with PC transport. I and most others use Mac.

bmoura · Feb 16, 2015

Elberoth said:
Did anyone make this work on lampi ?

No. Lampizator DSD DAC is DoP only here on the PC.

wisnon · Feb 17, 2015

I am pretty sure that one of them was using ASIO.

Elberoth · Feb 17, 2015

bmoura said:
No. Lampizator DSD DAC is DoP only here on the PC.

OK, so back to HQ Player install

wisnon · Feb 17, 2015

From the lampi thread at CompAudiophile:

05-29-2014, 07:35 AM
k6davis

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by wisnon

I think you have wrong info here. DSD is only via DoP.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be precise, the Lampi will accept DSD via ASIO or DoP, but either way, it receives DSD via USB only, so I think that rules out using the Offramp to send DSD to the Lampi.

JRiver allows you to real-time-convert all audio to DSD 128 either natively or with DoP and either method works perfectly with the Lampi DSD.

I'm listening to mine with the native DSD over ASIO option, but I didn't hear a difference in the (excellent) sound when I tried DoP just now

wisnon · Feb 17, 2015

Amanero board :
I think it does on Windows ASIO:

OEM Combo384 Module - USB class 2 to I2S 32bit and DSD output Adapter

Sound card intended for OEM High-End Audio Applications

Combo384 USB Schematic

Supported Sample Rates

44.1Khz 48Khz 88.2Khz 96Khz 176.4Khz 192Khz 352.8Khz 384Khz

Output Format

I2S 32bit or DSD64,DSD128 - On Windows DSD256,DSD512 too.
AND

seatrope

Guys, I checked with Lukasz directly regarding DSD256+ support. He says DSD256 works with the Lampi DSD module, but you have to be on the ASIO driver, not through DoP obviously (since it exceeds the DoP wrapper size I think). I don't have my Lampi yet so can't confirm that, but I have Lukasz's email....
He said DSD512 has some glitches that he's still trying to work out, in the same email.

06-11-2014, 10:16 PM
seatrope

To quote Lukasz's original email to me:

" to play DSD128+ asio support must be installed. Using software like foobar the plugin foo dsd_sac proxy must be installed and configured properly. Super Audio CD Decoder | Free Audio & Video software downloads at SourceForge.net

DSD Native mode must be selected on the foo_input_dsd proxy

with ASIO DSD256 works well, with DSD512 i received reports about a bit of noise on a channel so i m verifing and fixing the possible problem."

========================================

seatrope

As a caveat, the most recent version of the foobar SACD plugin (https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/) ver 0.7.x has an option in the dialogs called DSD to DSD conversion. Beware of this option - basically it converts input DSD to PCM then back to DSD, and it defaults to DSD64 output I believe. Initially I thought that my DSD256 file was playing fine, but I had this option selected and it was actually downsampling via this option to DSD64; if I selected "None" for this option, the Big 7 output silence.
=====================

seatrope

Not 100% sure, but clearly DSD64 and DSD128 work perfectly through ASIO with both JRMC19 and foobar, so I have a hard time thinking that it's something to do with the server config. I should have tried it throught my notebook but now the unit is off to repair to fix its many problems that no one caught during QA.

wisnon · Feb 17, 2015

More:

lightminer

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by bebop86

Guys thanks so much for the advice- To be honest I have not tried the DSD as I was comparing apples to apples as the CF does not do DSD- I downloaded the OPUS 3 and tea for the tillerman this morning on DSD- Using Jriver 19 the Opus keeps clicking and skipping and the Cat Stevens plays but at a very low volume- I have Jriver set to Combak and DSD over DOP what am I doing wrong- Also Rob mentioned that the new Jupiter caps are out and I should try them- Anyone using them??-Again thanks so much for all the support- I have the one box Big 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are the instructions I use for DSD on JRiver:

1) Make sure you are on the latest JRiver non-beta
2) Select the proper ASIO driver under tools/options/Audio Device
3) Select bistream->DSD. It should say "Bitstreaming: Yes(DSD)" (also under under tools/options/Audio Device)
4) In DSP studio, set Output format is "none". (under tools/options/Audio/Settings/DSP&OuptutFormat) (this is the default setting, but making sure DSD wasn't selected there. This option is for upsampling PCM, not for playing actual DSD source files.)
5) You have to check "DSD bitstream in DoP format". (under Tools/options/Audio Device/Device Settings) (this may get checked automatically after a restart if bitstreaming DSD is selected above)

AudioPath (in the upper right under the frequency analyzer - critical to know about AudiotPath) should indicate:

Input: DoP 5.6MHz 1 bit 2ch using ASIO (bitstreaming)
Output: DoP 5.6MHz 1 bit 2ch using ASIO (bitstreaming)

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