TechDAS AF1 Stainless Steel upper platter.

rockitman · May 2, 2014

I received my SS upper platter yesterday. Comparing the duralumin with the SS I find the SS to be leaner and meaner and the duralumin to be a touch softer and warmer in presentation. I felt the mid bass on the duralumin platter to be a touch bloated for lack of a better expression. The SS seems to go deeper and has a firmer grip on the bass. Upper mids through treble is noticeably more extended than with the duralumin version, ime.

I feel there is a bit more jump, sparkle and presence with the SS vs the duralumin. It definitely changes the tonal balance of the AF1 for better or for worse depending on your system tonal balance and preference.

PeterA · May 2, 2014

That is very interesting, Christian. Do the platters have the same density or mass? I wonder how a platter can actually effect tonal balance. Are the vibrations caused by the stylus interacting with the groove making their way through the vinyl to the platter material and then being reflected back up through the vinyl and effecting the stylus? Or are we talking about internal vibrations from the turntable/bearing making their way through the platter, through the vinyl and effecting the stylus? Or is it something else entirely?

Can anyone explain exactly what is going on here to explain how the material of the platter is effecting how we perceive the system's tonal balance?

dmnc02 · May 2, 2014

Stargate and I compared both platters on his AF1 before I ordered mine. The upper platter definitely has a very significant impact on the tonal balance and overall presentation. We both had a strong preference for the duralumin platter. With the SS, both frequency extremes were more prominent but somewhat less well integrated and the presentation was more forward.

rockitman · May 2, 2014

PeterA said:
That is very interesting, Christian. Do the platters have the same density or mass?

The SS platter is almost twice as heavy as the duralumin version so there is more beneficial spinning mass. I don't have a physics explanation of why the tonal balance changes other than it does.

PeterA · May 2, 2014

rockitman said:
The SS platter is almost twice as heavy as the duralumin version so there is more beneficial spinning mass. I don't have a physics explanation of why the tonal balance changes other than it does.

A lot of people talk about the importance of the platter to the overall sound of turntable. I've read some opinions that after a table's ability to hold the proper speed, the platter has the most impact on the sound. Shape, weight, size and material. I think it is an interesting topic and hope a designer can chime in on this thread.

Christian, have you tried the TechDas record weight or clamp?

rockitman · May 2, 2014

PeterA said:
Christian, have you tried the TechDas record weight or clamp?

From someone I know who has tried it, it is nothing special. IMHO there is no more technically advanced weight than the Stillpoint's LP1. I like it better than the $3000 Harmonix I tried a few weeks ago.

rockitman · May 3, 2014

dmnc02 said:
We both had a strong preference for the duralumin platter. With the SS, both frequency extremes were more prominent but somewhat less well integrated and the presentation was more forward.

I agree. Duralumin has a more balanced and coherent sound. If I could only have one, Duralumin is it. I have tamed the upper frequency extension of the SS using a different rectifier pair on my Allnic phono. Mullard GZ37's offer deep and extended bass but were a little rolled on top extension wise. The SS brought new life to the presentation. I can use GZ32, GZ34, GZ37, 5Y3 and 5U4G's as recitifer choices all of which have a unique sound. Each choice has it's tradeoff's. I'm 51 now, when I am in my 60's I would imagine I will lose some more hi-freq hearing. The SS may be the perfect geriatric use platter.

ddk · May 3, 2014

dmnc02 said:
Stargate and I compared both platters on his AF1 before I ordered mine. The upper platter definitely has a very significant impact on the tonal balance and overall presentation. We both had a strong preference for the duralumin platter. With the SS, both frequency extremes were more prominent but somewhat less well integrated and the presentation was more forward.

Interesting, you should look at your speaker for lack of integration not at the table. Of the three platters the SS is the most neutral, most detailed and most extended, specially in the bass region. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't like the warmer sounding Duralumin better, just be aware of what's going on with the rest of your system.

david

ddk · May 3, 2014

PeterA said:
A lot of people talk about the importance of the platter to the overall sound of turntable. I've read some opinions that after a table's ability to hold the proper speed, the platter has the most impact on the sound. Shape, weight, size and material. I think it is an interesting topic and hope a designer can chime in on this thread.

Christian, have you tried the TechDas record weight or clamp?

There are two things at play here, the sound, i.e. resonance of the materials and the difference in mass both have a direct effect on the sound. There's one more variable here that also affects everyone's results. TechDas uses the same solid belt as the older Micro Seiki tables, the belt tension plays a significant role in the final sound.

Their record weight is very good and imo its one of the better ones out there. My main criteria is that the clamp shouldn't add character nor dampen/roll off the sound. The best ones only bring more overall focus and nothing else is changed.

david

Mike Lavigne · May 3, 2014

rockitman said:
From someone I know who has tried it, it is nothing special. IMHO there is no more technically advanced weight than the Stillpoint's LP1. I like it better than the $3000 Harmonix I tried a few weeks ago.

the Durand record weight is worth investigating if you get the chance. i won't listen without it.

ddk · May 3, 2014

rockitman said:
I received my SS upper platter yesterday. Comparing the duralumin with the SS I find the SS to be leaner and meaner and the duralumin to be a touch softer and warmer in presentation. I felt the mid bass on the duralumin platter to be a touch bloated for lack of a better expression. The SS seems to go deeper and has a firmer grip on the bass. Upper mids through treble is noticeably more extended than with the duralumin version, ime.

I feel there is a bit more jump, sparkle and presence with the SS vs the duralumin. It definitely changes the tonal balance of the AF1 for better or for worse depending on your system tonal balance and preference.

Which did you get Christian, with or without pour on material?

david

dmnc02 · May 3, 2014

ddk said:
Interesting, you should look at your speaker for lack of integration not at the table. Of the three platters the SS is the most neutral, most detailed and most extended, specially in the bass region. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't like the warmer sounding Duralium better, just be aware of what's going on with the rest of your system.

david

As I mentioned, the comparison was not in my system, but in a friend's system which I know very well. I believe TechDas considers the duralumin platter the standard one, which would seem to contrast with your opinion that "the SS is the most neutral, most detailed and most extended". Do you have both platters?

BTW, I could say the same: if you find the duralumin platter on the warm side of neutrality, blame it on your speakers rather than on the platter.

ddk · May 3, 2014

dmnc02 said:
As I mentioned, the comparison was not in my system, but in a friend's system which I know very well. I believe TechDas considers the duralumin platter the standard one, which would seem to contrast with your opinion that "the SS is the most neutral, most detailed and most extended". Do you have both platters?

Yes, I have both platters here and can easily go back and forth. Had the acrylic one on trial too which I didn't like at all.

I've been in touch with the designer and never got the impression from him that the duralumin is the standard one, or at least he never conveyed that to me. Whatever our preferences, both Christian and I hear the additional information and extension from the ss platter and I can assure you that there's no discontinuity there. I know that you mentioned it as more prominent and forward but in my setup, and the AF1 is one of many, the SS platter is more laid back and neutral. I don't know yours or your friend's systems, there are so many different elements that can affect the final outcome. All I can tell you is that I've owned all the high end Micros for nearly a couple of decades, since the very beginning. What endeared them to me was their naturalness and musical correctness, not to mention their exceptional build quality that keeps them going problem free after all these years. The AF1 is a further development of the same platform and after years of experience with these tables and numerous different setups my preference is for the ss platter. Then again, I would never use Nordost cables anywhere specially for phono, so our mileage will be different.

david

rockitman · May 3, 2014

ddk said:
Which did you get Christian, with or without pour on material?

david

Poron. Have you heard it without ?

ddk · May 3, 2014

rockitman said:
Poron. Have you heard it without ?

Not on the AF1, but on the Micro tables. Side by side AF1 and SX-8000II have the same main qualities and the minor differences are just that. I think the mass and density of the ss platter contributes more to the overall sound that the poron material.
david

dmnc02 · May 3, 2014

ddk said:
Then again, I would never use Nordost cables anywhere specially for phono, so our mileage will be different.

The conversation would be more civil if you could refrain from cheap shots on my system, especially since you do not post details about yours. Obviously, we all love this table, as witnessed by the fact that we invested a significant amount of money to own one.

From the Positive Feedback review: "The customer can choose the A7075 aircraft-grade duralumin which is supposed to be most neutral sonically, the SUS316L non-magnetic stainless steel for tighter bass response, or methacrylate for a softer sound."

From the Hi-Fi News review: "The UK review sample was fitted - appropriately - with what the importer feels is the most sonically neutral, that made of aircraft-grade `extra super duralumin'".

The duralumin is also the platter with which the AF-1 has been fitted in all its North-American show appearances.

ddk · May 3, 2014

dmnc02 said:
The conversation would be more civil if you could refrain from cheap shots on my system, especially since you do not post details about yours. Obviously, we all love this table, as witnessed by the fact that we invested a significant amount of money to own one.

From the Positive Feedback review: "The customer can choose the A7075 aircraft-grade duralumin which is supposed to be most neutral sonically, the SUS316L non-magnetic stainless steel for tighter bass response, or methacrylate for a softer sound."

From the Hi-Fi News review: "The UK review sample was fitted - appropriately - with what the importer feels is the most sonically neutral, that made of aircraft-grade `extra super duralumin'".

The duralumin is also the platter with which the AF-1 has been fitted in all its North-American show appearances.

I'm sorry if it came across negatively Paul I wasn't taking any shots at your system just pointing to a difference in our tastes and preferences.

Its good to have choices and the different platters give us that. I'm sure that there are people who prefer the acrylic platter. I'm not telling you which is the best or the duralumin is undesirable, only what I hear in my setups.

I haven't read the review and don't know wether PF had both platters on hand to compare. Regarding the UK review, the importer is a close friend of mine for over 20 years and I can tell you that's not the complete story. If you ever come to Utah I can demonstrate what I hear in my system.

david

dmnc02 · May 3, 2014

Agreed, it is nice to have the choice of alternative platters and I am also only reporting my own listening impressions.

I know you love this table. If I am not mistaken, you shipped your power unit to the last CES to replace the damaged one so that the show could go on. I would certainly like to pay you a visit if I happen to be in Utah, and I invite you to do the same if you are in PA. And, BTW, my name is not Paul.

ddk · May 3, 2014

dmnc02 said:
Agreed, it is nice to have the choice of alternative platters and I am also only reporting my own listening impressions.

I know you love this table. If I am not mistaken, you shipped your power unit to the last CES to replace the damaged one so that the show could go on. I would certainly like to pay you a visit if I happen to be in Utah, and I invite you to do the same if you are in PA. And, BTW, my name is not Paul.

oops, I was having a concurrent conversation (also regarding AF1) with Paul on another site and it crept in here. I'll take you up on your offer next time I'm in the East Coast. Shall I pm you for your name?

david

jeromelang · May 8, 2014

Its obvious - whenever material that can alter magnetic fields is around - sound will change because of it.

It is easy to device your own experiments to verify this.

TechDAS AF1 Stainless Steel upper platter.

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