New NHB 18NS

Ki Choi · Jun 9, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
you are inferring this could be a 'Ki-like' pronouncement?

eh?

Ok, I can't tell a lie. I do have a poor track record - as far as making my "no more" commitments and not following up the promise. But this time it is different!

Well, somewhat... I am seeking treatment and learning to say NO to tape machines.

But I must stress my disease in size and depth is far different from yours, Mike.

I saw them with my own eyes and confirmed its seriousness with my ears yesterday. It was the most realistically reproduced piano I have ever heard when Nojima Played Liszt through your latest system configuration.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 9, 2014

Ki Choi said:
Ok, I can't tell a lie. I do have a poor track record - as far as making my "no more" commitments and not following up the promise. But this time it is different!

Well, somewhat... I am seeking treatment and learning to say NO to tape machines.

But I must stress my disease in size and depth is far different from yours, Mike.

I saw them with my own eyes and confirmed its seriousness with my ears yesterday. It was the most realistically reproduced piano I have ever heard when Nojima Played Liszt through your latest system configuration.

Ki,

yes; i suppose i am the poster child for that dreaded disease Highendus Extremous, at least in our neighborhood.

neither of us are going to get the benefit of the doubt when we claim 'enough is enough'. and we have earned that treatment.

seriously; it was nice that you could come over and hang with us yesterday morning. since you sat so still in the sweet spot while the Nojima was playing i could not tell what you were thinking. i completely agree with your perceptions.

on Thursday when i first played the Nojima with the new dart pre i was mezmorized. it's a recording that demands much from a system/room/vinyl front-end to get it all right. and it did it....with ease.

microstrip · Jun 9, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
(...) at this point i'll simply say that it has met and exceeded any/all performance expectations.....and even thou it's a pre-production unit it is a pleasure to use in every way. I love the repeatability of the digital readout for knowing where the volume it is at, and that I can point the remote any direction and it works flawlessly. I love the elegance and feel of the way the input selection dial and volume dial work.

more later, I'm enjoying Debussy 'Images' (Haitink-Philips Lp box set, R-2015038) right now peacefully before everyone is up and about. perfect Sunday morning music.

Didn't I tell you about the digital readout? At less now the owners of the new NS18 will not feel envious of 8550 owners ...

It the new volume control and selection system also based in opto-elements?

Mike Lavigne · Jun 9, 2014

microstrip said:
Didn't I tell you about the digital readout?

you very well might have; i cannot recall.

At less now the owners of the new NS18 will not feel envious of 8550 owners ...
It the new volume control and selection system also based in opto-elements?

i 'think' what Herve said was that the new selection system is micro-prosessor based. the dial only works when the unit is out of standby since there is no physical switch (the current 18NS will allow mechanical switching of inputs powered down), the dial selects a point. that point is then lighted indicating that input has been selected, and after a 4 second delay that input is live (8 seconds for the phono inputs). the volume control knob has a very sexy ball-bearing movment with subtle indents....super smooth and a pleasure to use. as far as it's method for actually adjusting the volume, i assume it continues to be those very transparent opto-elements.

the balance control dial actually doubles as a selector mechanism to toggle thru software set-up choices. this is the part which is still in 'beta' testing, all the control software. the hardware is done. another cool feature is that setting the phono gain and loading is by toggle switches and LED's on the back side under the phono inputs. it can be adjusted dynamically on-the-fly while listening. you can also choose to hard wire the resistor of your own choice. and the phono now has higher gain of 70 db, verses the previous max of 66 db. helpful for LOMC's.

last but not least, the XLR inputs and outputs no longer use any transformer; and they sound much better using the XLR's. i tested this yesterday using my Studer A-820 playing thru it's stock electronics and XLR cables. much better sounding than the XLR's on the current 18NS even considering the better overall line stage performance. XLR sources will be well served by the new dart pre!

as a non-techie person i apologize ahead of time for any mistakes in my comments as far as the workings of the new dart pre. the above is my understanding as of right now.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 13, 2014

a few pictures of the beauty.....

BiggusD · Jun 13, 2014

Does the display just show the volume or more? On the CTH-8550 it shows tons of stuff, menu, settings, etc...

Mike Lavigne · Jun 13, 2014

BiggusD said:
Does the display just show the volume or more? On the CTH-8550 it shows tons of stuff, menu, settings, etc...

the digital read-out can be accessed thru the balance dial to show many things; Herve went thru a list of different settings with me at the Newport Show. however; since this is a pre-production unit and the control software is 'beta' and not fully sorted out, and i have no manual for the unit, i'm gun-shy on getting deep into it and having some sort of a software glitch in the precious time i have it in-room.

i know you can dim and even shut off the illumination, every input can have off-set adjustments, balance is done thru the software, and a few other choices. the remote also has capabilities of programming which Herve talked about and even future options for the remote since everything is microprocessor based.

so unlike some other 'hair-shirt' ultra high end preamps, the new dart will be very user friendly, if not quite as computer screen-like in terms of viewing those options. i like simplicity myself. i just switched from being a long-time Nikon shooter to Leica shooter mostly to simplify my use of the camera. not so many layers upon layers of choices between me and the shot. yet enough control to get what i want.

BiggusD · Jun 14, 2014

Thanks for the information. Nice to know that it is a lot more than just a volume level display.

Stereophonic · Aug 24, 2014

View attachment 17046 View attachment 17047

Sencha · Sep 10, 2014

Mike, It can't be too long now before you get your new pre. I do believe they were supposed to be shipping around now. Any word?

Mike Lavigne · Sep 20, 2014

Sencha said:
Mike, It can't be too long now before you get your new pre. I do believe they were supposed to be shipping around now. Any word?

sorry, I did not see this until now.

the latest word is shipping sometime in October. the good news is last time I asked about it last week was that there was no 'news'......in other words no delays had been communicated. so that October time frame is more and more likely the closer we get and no delays are spoken about.

I'm very excited as even now 3 months removed from my time with the new pre it is still haunting me.

Sencha · Sep 24, 2014

Hi Mike, am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds. I may look to upgrate my 18 next year depending on the costings/sound improvement curve. Not long now though!!

Mike Lavigne · Sep 24, 2014

Sencha said:
Hi Mike, am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds. I may look to upgrate my 18 next year depending on the costings/sound improvement curve. Not long now though!!

hi Sencha,

if you hear the new dart you will want it for sure....it is a clear significant upgrade over the current model.

i did hear yesterday that there is a delay in delivery with the new dart pre from early-mid October to late October-early November due to a three week delay in the delivery some sort of transformer. these things do happen on initial production runs, but it's still a bummer for me.

Sencha · Sep 25, 2014

That will probably delay the availability to existing owners wanting to upgrade their units. Just as well I haven't hear it, the wait would be agonising!!

Mike Lavigne · Sep 25, 2014

Sencha said:
That will probably delay the availability to existing owners wanting to upgrade their units. Just as well I haven't hear it, the wait would be agonising!!

as far as the time frame for upgrading existing units; my understanding is that the upgrades will begin approximately 6 months after the first new dart preamps ship. so if the new dart pre ships November 1st, then the upgrades might begin May 1st of 2015. that is the plan as it was explained to me a few months ago......all subject to change, of course.

I know that they have quite a few orders for the new preamps to fill before doing the upgrades. amazing for an approximately $40k retail preamp to have lots of pre-orders......but not surprising considering the performance and build quality. after my experience with the pre-production unit last June, I know people will be blown away with what they hear from this new preamp.

darTZeel owners have been a satisfied group.

microstrip · Sep 26, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
as far as the time frame for upgrading existing units; my understanding is that the upgrades will begin approximately 6 months after the first new dart preamps ship. so if the new dart pre ships November 1st, then the upgrades might begin May 1st of 2015. that is the plan as it was explained to me a few months ago......all subject to change, of course.

I know that they have quite a few orders for the new preamps to fill before doing the upgrades. amazing for an approximately $40k retail preamp to have lots of pre-orders......but not surprising considering the performance and build quality. after my experience with the pre-production unit last June, I know people will be blown away with what they hear from this new preamp.

darTZeel owners have been a satisfied group.

Do you have any estimation of the cost of the upgrade? I have decided to keep my NHB 108, I need to hear it with the new preamplifier in my system ...

Mike Lavigne · Sep 26, 2014

microstrip said:
Do you have any estimation of the cost of the upgrade? I have decided to keep my NHB 108, I need to hear it with the new preamplifier in my system ...

if you just hear the new dart pre in a familiar system the difference will jump out at you. the visitors who know my system heard the differences easily in June, and I did no A/B's for anyone. and that is both with the line stage and phono.

since i'll be selling my current model NHB-18NS when my new one arrives, I did check on the current best estimate of the upgrade (so I can tell prospective buyers) and right now I am told it's 10k Swiss Francs, about $11k USD based on current exchange rates. like in my case, if you want an upgrade with 2 phono stages, it's another 2k-3k Swiss Francs for the additional sensational new phono stage when upgrading.

in my opinion, owning a state-of-the-art preamp for 8 years that still holds it's own as state of the art, and then being able to upgrade it to the very tip top of preamp performance for around 25% of retail is an amazing value and further confirmation of the darTZeel commitment to their customers.

since the pre-production version I had in June had one older phono and one new phono it maybe possible to retain your current phono in the upgraded chassis as the second phono to save that additional cost. but......IMHO....once you hear the new phono you would not consider that option. and I'm just speculating that that approach is doable. I never asked the question to get a definitive answer.

KeithR · Sep 26, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
if you just hear the new dart pre in a familiar system the difference will jump out at you. the visitors who know my system heard the differences easily in June, and I did no A/B's for anyone. and that is both with the line stage and phono.

since i'll be selling my current model NHB-18NS when my new one arrives, I did check on the current best estimate of the upgrade (so I can tell prospective buyers) and right now I am told it's 10k Swiss Francs, about $11k USD based on current exchange rates. like in my case, if you want an upgrade with 2 phono stages, it's another 2k-3k Swiss Francs for the additional sensational new phono stage when upgrading.

in my opinion, owning a state-of-the-art preamp for 8 years that still holds it's own as state of the art, and then being able to upgrade it to the very tip top of preamp performance for around 25% of retail is an amazing value and further confirmation of the darTZeel commitment to their customers.

since the pre-production version I had in June had one older phono and one new phono it maybe possible to retain your current phono in the upgraded chassis as the second phono to save that additional cost. but......IMHO....once you hear the new phono you would not consider that option. and I'm just speculating that that approach is doable. I never asked the question to get a definitive answer.

I have to admit, all you guys upgrading has me considering a move from the CTH to the prior version 18ns/108 separates

I've now had my CTH for 8 months and have gotten off the amp go-around. Occasionally I think about an 845-based integrated amp to have a tube alternative to swap out for fun, but then I realize it probably just wouldn't get much play.

microstrip · Sep 26, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
if you just hear the new dart pre in a familiar system the difference will jump out at you. the visitors who know my system heard the differences easily in June, and I did no A/B's for anyone. and that is both with the line stage and phono.

since i'll be selling my current model NHB-18NS when my new one arrives, I did check on the current best estimate of the upgrade (so I can tell prospective buyers) and right now I am told it's 10k Swiss Francs, about $11k USD based on current exchange rates. like in my case, if you want an upgrade with 2 phono stages, it's another 2k-3k Swiss Francs for the additional sensational new phono stage when upgrading.

in my opinion, owning a state-of-the-art preamp for 8 years that still holds it's own as state of the art, and then being able to upgrade it to the very tip top of preamp performance for around 25% of retail is an amazing value and further confirmation of the darTZeel commitment to their customers.

since the pre-production version I had in June had one older phono and one new phono it maybe possible to retain your current phono in the upgraded chassis as the second phono to save that additional cost. but......IMHO....once you hear the new phono you would not consider that option. and I'm just speculating that that approach is doable. I never asked the question to get a definitive answer.

Thanks for the good news Mike. Considering all the modifications that must be done to the preamplifier I find hard to believe that the upgrade is around 10k SF -labor cost is terribly expensive in Switzerland and the mods are extensive.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 26, 2014

microstrip said:
Thanks for the good news Mike. Considering all the modifications that must be done to the preamplifier I find hard to believe that the upgrade is around 10k SF -labor cost is terribly expensive in Switzerland and the mods are extensive.

.....be clear that the 10k SF's for the upgrade is a current best estimate and nothing more.....in 6 to 9 months that could change.

agree that it represents a fantastic value.

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