Can we get fooled??

DaveyF · Apr 20, 2014

Reading through some of the many threads here on new gear and particularly the thread on "better than class A"; It occurred to me that we, as a'philes, have probably been fooled into hearing a new piece of gear and pronouncing it great ( insert other superlatives here) many times. I am sure looking at the many used pieces that crop up on A'gon within months of their release, that this is a common problem.
It most likely starts with the "rave" review and then with great word of mouth and even greater advertising. Upon first listen, we (a'philes) are pre-conditioned to expect great things,and sure enough that's what we hear! Unfortunately, the new "rave" soon reveals itself to be a LOT less impressive than we first thought, or more importantly heard. So, on the A'gon block it goes. Many times at a considerable $$ loss, as the piece is now a known entity and therefore not that desirable.
The remedy to this situation...at least IMHO, is to try any piece of gear first in one's own system and preferably for some extensive listening time. ( Not always possible....

)

Anyone here had this circumstance with their latest purchase ( or any purchase)...be honest. Do elaborate

treitz3 · Apr 20, 2014

Yes, some do.

No. To elaborate, some folks choose wisely and offer the new gear a fair playing field, whatever it may be.

"New" isn't necessarily good, regardless of cost. Things are what they are. Make things possible or lose out on what may be. Many folks have seen and experienced this many times including myself.

Tom

JackD201 · Apr 20, 2014

Why only we as audiophiles? I think, no, I believe, we as humans are all susceptible to having "crushes". Sooner or later, we'll all find a shortcoming or two or three or……

The difference is how we deal with that. That could range from swearing whatever off completely to turning into the man from La Mancha.

flez007 · Apr 20, 2014

DaveyF, I don't know what you are talking about!

DaveyF · Apr 20, 2014

flez007 said:
DaveyF, I don't know what you are talking about!

Fernando, I knew that...

Joe Whip · Apr 21, 2014

At this juncture, most of my 2 channel stuff is rather long in the tooth as I have never been on the constant "upgrade" path. I find the stuff that I think sounds the best and keep it as long as it continues to work or until I find something that I think is clearly better. When I decide to upgrade, I only do so if I can bring it home first and play it in my system over a long weekend or if I get a 2 week all my money back guarantee. That way, I can listen to it at home with familiar music long into the night if I want and decide if it is worth the purchase. It also has to be a significant upgrade. A yes, it is a wee bit better doesn't cut it. I have been at some really high end (or is it now high performance?) audio retailers who play you some stuff and it sounds interesting for the first 10 minutes or so and then it starts to sound not so good, usually too bright, after another 10 minutes, and it is time to leave. I would rather discover that before I plunk down my hard earned cash.

microstrip · Apr 21, 2014

The main problem is not choosing great single pieces of equipment, but finding pieces that interact between them to create a system that pleases us in the long term. And this is not usually a ten minutes affair.

IMHO most of the time we make mistakes because we are too ambitious - we want to get more than what we paid for.

But soon we find that in order to optimize some particular aspect that we were looking for we neglected others, and after the honey moon phase these "faults" become too notorious.

BTW, some of us change equipment because for us changes are part of the hobby.

DaveyF · Apr 21, 2014

Joe Whip said:
At this juncture, most of my 2 channel stuff is rather long in the tooth as I have never been on the constant "upgrade" path. I find the stuff that I think sounds the best and keep it as long as it continues to work or until I find something that I think is clearly better. When I decide to upgrade, I only do so if I can bring it home first and play it in my system over a long weekend or if I get a 2 week all my money back guarantee. That way, I can listen to it at home with familiar music long into the night if I want and decide if it is worth the purchase. It also has to be a significant upgrade. A yes, it is a wee bit better doesn't cut it. I have been at some really high end (or is it now high performance?) audio retailers who play you some stuff and it sounds interesting for the first 10 minutes or so and then it starts to sound not so good, usually too bright, after another 10 minutes, and it is time to leave. I would rather discover that before I plunk down my hard earned cash.

Great post, Joe.I really do think that many of us are always seeking the holy grail, and therefore are never satisfied with what we have. I know that I fall into that category...somewhat.

If you have reached a place where you believe that your system sounds great and there is no need to go any further, well I suspect that's something that many of us would envy.
OTOH, one person's "significant upgrade" is another's "wee bit better". In this hobby, I think we try and get a lot of "wee bit better's" with the hope that they will all add up to a MAJOR improvement; at least that is what I try and do.

awsmone · Apr 22, 2014

I think changing and experience in what change brings is part of the hobby

Often I have brought a piece home to try, and it did something I didnt have in my system

When I returned it, I learnt from that and tweaked my system to try and get that quality

Sometimes I succeeded, and other times realised my system couldnt do it

Recently after wholesale buying spree, I have bought very little the last couple of years

Am trying to maximise what I have got ( due to budget constraints...wives are expensive lol)

My only issue has been some amplifer failure problems, which have me looking for a more robust interface

The rest of the system has been great, and am constantly amazed by tweaking how much extra performance I can get out of my system

But I agree you can only be certain of a component after a long time, and the other issue is sometimes you get so used to your own sound when you hear a different sound you think oh no mine doesnt sound like that.....

Phelonious Ponk · Apr 22, 2014

I've done a lot of advertising testing. And I've also commissioned a lot of focus groups. You discover two things very quickly: When responses, impressions, attitude changes are tested it is clear that people are affected by advertising. When you get open feedback from a group, it's clear that most people, especially men, believe that their purchase decisions are not impacted by advertising or image. Many even deny being affected by word of mouth. They make their own decisions. Rationally. Thankyouverymuch.

Then we run the ads and watch sales go up when they're running, come back down when they're not.

The difference with audiophiles is that they are generally a very affluent, well-educated, smart bunch. So they have the chops to question the methodologies of the tests.

Tim

Joe Whip · Apr 23, 2014

Thanks for the kind word Davey. My concern about something being a wee bit better is that it often times isn't. If I have to really think about whether something is better, it isn't. Improvements worth pursuing shouldn't be something that take a lot a time to decide. The old adage think long think wrong comes to mind. For me, I need to be able to say, wow, that is better not gee, I think it might be better. That is how I decide whether to take the plunge on new gear. I think it is best to actually enjoy your music rather than agonizing over the equipment. Life is too damn short. Stop and smell the roses whilst you can.

DaveyF · Apr 23, 2014

Joe Whip said:
Thanks for the kind word Davey. My concern about something being a wee bit better is that it often times isn't. If I have to really think about whether something is better, it isn't. Improvements worth pursuing shouldn't be something that take a lot a time to decide. The old adage think long think wrong comes to mind. For me, I need to be able to say, wow, that is better not gee, I think it might be better. That is how I decide whether to take the plunge on new gear. I think it is best to actually enjoy your music rather than agonizing over the equipment. Life is too damn short. Stop and smell the roses whilst you can.

Joe, I completely agree with you. I cannot tell you how many times I have read about some reviewer having an epiphany over some piece of gear, only to hear it myself and think...why???
OTOH, if something is a wee bit better, and not worse, well I guess there is some value to that. Problem is these days in high-end it seems like many people have epiphany's over the smallest change, LOL.

microstrip · Apr 24, 2014

DaveyF said:
Joe, I completely agree with you. I cannot tell you how many times I have read about some reviewer having an epiphany over some piece of gear, only to hear it myself and think...why???
OTOH, if something is a wee bit better, and not worse, well I guess there is some value to that. Problem is these days in high-end it seems like many people have epiphany's over the smallest change, LOL.

Most probably you are also listening the component in a different system and different room. Great components do not have intrinsic magic - they have potential, but they need the matching system to show it. But yes, some reviewers seem to want us to believe some equipment is miraculous. A good reviewer will be able to tell you why he had an epiphany, giving examples and a solid explanation of its origin - unfortunately many reviewers will only tell us to believe them!

DaveyF · Apr 24, 2014

microstrip said:
But yes, some reviewers seem to want us to believe some equipment is miraculous. A good reviewer will be able to tell you why he had an epiphany, giving examples and a solid explanation of its origin - unfortunately many reviewers will only tell us to believe them!

That does seem to be the case in many instances. We all know the "usual suspects"

TooCool4 · Apr 25, 2014

I have only ever had this once and lucky for me it only cost me my time and not money.

Many many years ago I was upgrading from my first system, the amp was a Mission Cyrus 2 and PSX. I listened to Naim 72 Pre / Hi-Cap and Nap 140, in the shop I thought wow.

I got to take it home for the weekend, guess what I could not wait to get it back after the weekend it was so fatiguing. If I had spent my money I would not be very happy.

I have to agree with a few people here and say an upgrade has to be big and if I have to think if it’s better or not, the chances are it’s not and it’s best left alone.

Like other people I read reviews but I don’t believe a would of it, I like to listen with my own ears and my music selection. Many times I have listened to something that has had rave reviews only to think this can’t be the same thing, in fact I thing the reviewer couldn’t have listened to it at all. Which i know has happened in the past.

Joe Whip · Apr 25, 2014

Some reviewers do seem to be shills for the products they review.

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