Solar Power

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
We're considering installing solar panels (in the desert with over 300 days of sunshine) in the near future. Does anyone have any experience with this, and any comments/thoughts about audio systems operating under these conditions?

Lee
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Boston, MA
No experience, but I've been reading about thugs stealing the copper out of them, so how does one protect them.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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We're considering installing solar panels (in the desert with over 300 days of sunshine) in the near future. Does anyone have any experience with this, and any comments/thoughts about audio systems operating under these conditions?

Lee

Short reply. Hopefully for now.

It depends on the inverter you use. The inverter is the item that transform DC to AC. Some provide a quiet and extremely well regulated output, some not. With the better Inverters on the market one can get a very high quality power. I will forward you the brand of inverter we use. The waveform is cleaner and by far than what I have observed (informally) from the commercial AC grid in Miami, FL.
 

InterMechanico

New Member
Apr 17, 2014
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Vancouver, Canada
Good Morning! I'm considering installing ten panels (2600 watts total) on the south facing wall of my patio. I live in Vancouver, B.C; so I naturally get far less than 30 days of sun, but I think the system will be worthwhile anyhow. Mine will be a grid tied system which uses ten separate micro-inverters (Enphase) rather than one large inverter. This optimizes the output of each panel relative to its' exposure to light, cleanliness, etc...

http://enphase.com/m250/

http://hanwhasolarcanada.com/products/solar-modules/hsc-60-mono-can-am/
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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We're considering installing solar panels (in the desert with over 300 days of sunshine) in the near future. Does anyone have any experience with this, and any comments/thoughts about audio systems operating under these conditions?

Lee

Lee,


Solar panels will generate DC and this DC will be converted to AC. Most inverters sacrifice waveform quality for efficiency, and dynamic behavior is not usually specified. In terms of sound quality we can think of such system as being equivalent to a power re-generator - some people (and equipment) do not like such devices. Perhaps you should try something such as a PSAudio P10 in your system and listen!
 

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
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405
My 23 panel solar system will be a year old this August. I bought it because my Pass Lab X600.5 amps, along with the air conditioning, was bankrupting me. :)

Anyway, there seems to be no negative effect on the audio, but daytime is not critical listening time. Late at night is critical time, and the solar is inop at that period.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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(...) I will forward you the brand of inverter we use. The waveform is cleaner and by far than what I have observed (informally) from the commercial AC grid in Miami, FL.

Can we all also know what is this brand? ;)
 

InterMechanico

New Member
Apr 17, 2014
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Vancouver, Canada
Further to my previous post, the grid tied system I mentioned may solve the power quality problem. As long as you're connected to the power grid, and your electrical company allows it, your grid tied system will feed the power back into the electrical grid when you produce a surplus, thus giving you a credit towards your future usage. Your electricity still comes from the grid, but you benefit from producing your own power without expensive batteries or extra power conditioning.

Julian
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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Seattle, WA
Good Morning! I'm considering installing ten panels (2600 watts total) on the south facing wall of my patio. I live in Vancouver, B.C; so I naturally get far less than 30 days of sun, but I think the system will be worthwhile anyhow. Mine will be a grid tied system which uses ten separate micro-inverters (Enphase) rather than one large inverter. This optimizes the output of each panel relative to its' exposure to light, cleanliness, etc...

http://enphase.com/m250/

http://hanwhasolarcanada.com/products/solar-modules/hsc-60-mono-can-am/
Very good recommendations :). I studied solar a lot as a business to get into and the Enphase inverters were a compelling solution. Quick summary is that you put an inverter per panel instead of stringing all the panels and driving one larger inverters. The individual inverter solution optimizes the power for each panel which the larger one cannot do. If all of your panels have identical coverage as far as light and temp, then this is not of value. But if any of the experience a different condition such as clouds, shadows, angles, etc, the individual inverter is a better solution. That approach also makes it easy to add more panels later whereas the one larger inverter may have to be replaced if you add more panels that exceed its power capability.

As to merits in Vancouver, BC, it is non-intuitive but panels are more efficient at lower temperatures. This means in very sunny desert environment you get more sun but less efficiency. Likewise (to some extent) we get a lot less sun but the panel runs more efficiently since our temps are lower.

Your other post is also right on. The inverters feed existing grid and hence, use the power company as a "large battery." You never run from the panels. So I wouldn't expect any negative effects on the electronics.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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(...) The inverters feed existing grid and hence, use the power company as a "large battery." You never run from the panels. So I wouldn't expect any negative effects on the electronics.

No negative effects, but probably also no positive effects, except for your electricity bill.
 

HedgeHog

Well-Known Member
Mar 12, 2012
183
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325
Richmond, BC
Hi Julian,

You got me curious now. What's the cost involved in installing something like that in the GVRD?

Cheers,
Hedwig
 

InterMechanico

New Member
Apr 17, 2014
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Vancouver, Canada
Hi Julian,

You got me curious now. What's the cost involved in installing something like that in the GVRD?

Cheers,
Hedwig

Not a great day for Solar in our area hey? :rolleyes:

I had done some preliminary pricing with a company (Polar Battery, Boundary/Parker) in Vancouver, and I came up with this quote:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Julian
The Hanwha panels we discussed are actually made in Ontairio www.hanwha-solarbne.com
part # HSC-230-60P your cost per unit $270.00 based on 10 units
These panels work good with grid tie

Grid tie inverter
My supplier uses in Ontairio a brand called Aurora
Part# Aurora -3.0 3000watt grid tie inverter your cost is $1650.00
requires part# Aurora-Web res monitor kit $770.00
And # Aurora -Card wireless radio card $140.00

www.hespv.ca/poweroneinverters.html





other option Enphase Micro bloc Inverters
Part# EN-M215 your cost per inverter per panel is $180.00
Requires #EN-M215-CAP end cap $20.00 each
and #EN-M215-TRP240 Trunk Cable portrait -240v $ 28.00 each
and EN-COMM Envoy Gateway $620.00 only 1 for system

www.enphase.com





Mounting hardware with the pro solar rails add up to around $350.00
www.prosolar.com

Everything is within 3 days to 1 week away-----


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This pricing is a few months old, but should still be representative of the costs. There is probably some wiggle room as well :)

As for the install, BC Hydro's (our electrical provider in BC) Net Metering program is easy to join. They do require that the main electrical circuit be inspected or installed by an electrician who is certified with the BC Safety Authority. The A/C output cable from the micro inverters is literally just fed into the main breaker panel in your home (through a breaker). The new smart meters that everyone hates so much have made the metering of the power you generate very easy. In my case, I had to get permission from my strata council (got it), and permission from the city of Port Moody (My 'Burb, and maybe need permission, maybe not).

Enjoy the Rain!

Julian
 

HedgeHog

Well-Known Member
Mar 12, 2012
183
13
325
Richmond, BC
Not a great day for Solar in our area hey? :rolleyes:

I had done some preliminary pricing with a company (Polar Battery, Boundary/Parker) in Vancouver, and I came up with this quote:

-----------8<-------snipped----------

Enjoy the Rain!

Julian


Liquid sunshine! Thx for the info. At least it was gorgeous last weekend...so I washed my cars and did the rain dance. ;)

Sorry for the thread jack. :p
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
275
50
335
Nothern California Wine Country
solar.jpg

My 6.5kw grid tied system, installed 4 years ago. Prior to install, my annual electric bill was over $4,000. This year, the utility company will owe me $350. No negative effect on SQ of my audio system.
 

InterMechanico

New Member
Apr 17, 2014
9
0
0
Vancouver, Canada
View attachment 15271

My 6.5kw grid tied system, installed 4 years ago. Prior to install, my annual electric bill was over $4,000. This year, the utility company will owe me $350. No negative effect on SQ of my audio system.

That's very impressive! I'm not sure I'll be able to reduce my bill that much, but this setup is exactly what I want to do. Nice Array!

What type of panel/inverter combination do you use?

Julian
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
275
50
335
Nothern California Wine Country
The panels are by Sharp, and the inverters (there are 2 because I started out with 4kw, and then added more panels a year later) are Sunny Boy by SMA. I am about to install a 2nd system for a separate meter which supplies another part of the ranch, and will do it myself, but with final hook-up by a licensed electrician. This time I will use Enphase inverters, although there is nothing wrong about SMA. Panels will be chosen by price, which can be as low as $0.70/watt. Prices have dropped substantially since 4 years ago, but so have the government incentives. California has extremely high electric rates, which makes solar quite compelling.
 

WLVCA

Member Sponsor
Nov 2, 2012
3,911
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Tucson
I had a 14 kW system installed about a month ago. I'm in Tucson so lots of sunshine here although its cloudy today.

So far the system has produced about 3,000 kWh, about 3 1/2 times what we've drawn from the utility company if I am reading the meter correctly. Haven't seen my first bill with the solar system yet.

With a pool, fish pond and two A/C systems our electric bills last summer were high. Hope I am building sufficient reserve to offset a big portion of those costs.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
5,158
46
1,225
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
Thanks for the replies! I have heard that the "storage battery" type of system is suboptimal. Apparently, the batteries are extremely expensive and only last ~5 yrs or so. Anyone know about this?
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
275
50
335
Nothern California Wine Country
Thanks for the replies! I have heard that the "storage battery" type of system is suboptimal. Apparently, the batteries are extremely expensive and only last ~5 yrs or so. Anyone know about this?
Batteries are necessary if you live off the grid, but are expensive and require proper care, without which you will not get their full potential life, that should be 10 years, and even longer with the massive sized monsters that used to be standard in commercial installations, but difficult to find today. Suboptimal? Not necessarily, but not my preference since I do live on the grid. Letting my utility company be my battery bank has it's advantages, unless the grid goes down. I have a diesel generator for those times, much cheaper than batteries, and it is already 25 years old and going strong. Diesel fuel can be stored for long periods of time without deterioration.
 
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