CAT Renaissance vs. CAT Legend?

caesar

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The price is about double between the 2 units. What does Legend have over the Renaissance model?
 

DaveyF

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I think the Legend employs better caps, a more robust chassis ( IF that is possible, as the Stock CAT's are pretty robust!), and overall better spec'ed filters', etc.
I have heard the Renaissance, but not the Legend. The Renaissance is a great preamp IMO. Interestingly, I also think that tube rolling would still make a nice improvement to all of the CAT models. It was a MAJOR upgrade to my CAT.
 
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DaveyF

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All of the CAT preamps are undergoing a fairly major upgrade. Ken announced at Axpona...and will officially announce at Munich, that the new preamps will have all Black Path caps in all locations...not just in the signal path. These 'new' versions will be called the CAT SL1 Renaissance BPA and the Legend SL1 BPX. A fairly major price increase is anticipated as well. Good time to 'dump' your existing Legend Black Path, LOL.:rolleyes:
 

microstrip

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All of the CAT preamps are undergoing a fairly major upgrade. Ken announced at Axpona...and will officially announce at Munich, that the new preamps will have all Black Path caps in all locations...not just in the signal path. These 'new' versions will be called the CAT SL1 Renaissance BPA and the Legend SL1 BPX. A fairly major price increase is anticipated as well. Good time to 'dump' your existing Legend Black Path, LOL.:rolleyes:

What type of capacitor are the Black Path's?
 

andromedaaudio

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Circuit boards , L R volume control , instead of Vol / balance in the renaisance , also the volume control itself is quite different , housing top plate is also different , the legend and renaissance have a step up in the phono section to reduce noise and probably more gain , may be more dont know ,
Circuit itself might be the same looking at the cap lay out , might be not so different then mine even , never change a winner Afaic , incredible pre amp even my old one , Mark levinson 32 with tubes lol
Mine is a Cat ultimate MK 2 with also L R volume control and a legend frontplate , it was made for a german audio show to show a legend pre was coming , at least thats what the importer told me
The only dealer in Holland (in Belgium there is none afaik) is asking 12 K for a renaissance demo unit , so he s about to change as well I reckon.
Hope to have a listen pretty soon to a second hand dart pre as well , also goes for 12 overhere .

Ps if I could get his capacitators in values needed for X overs I would use them for sure , most certainly part of the success beside very good circuitry

Legend

cat_sl1_legend_ by andromeda61, on Flickr


Mine


DSC_0010 by andromeda61, on Flickr

Renaissance

cat renessaince by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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DaveyF

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It looks to me like the circuit is the same in all of the CAT preamps(except for maybe the Legend)...albeit with different caps, and other components. This is why I have not really been that anxious to replace my modded CAT SL1 Signature with a newer model. Plus, IMHO, the tube type makes a far bigger difference than the upgrades that Ken has done in the intervening years...even though Ken is having none of that.
The stock tubes in the preamps are really nothing special at all...and the SQ increase by rolling in NOS tubes is very pronounced.
Would be very interesting to hear the difference between an older model with NOS tubes and a new model with stock tubes.
 

andromedaaudio

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Not in my experience so far , I stopped buying tubes over the internet and other dodgy shops , selling NOS or may be not so NOS tubes .
I bring mine every 4 years to a certified technician who has all the tube testing equipment , pay him a couple hundred euros and haver the whole thing checked incl tubes.
I let him sort out the tube quality
 

DaveyF

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Not in my experience so far , I stopped buying tubes over the internet and other dodgy shops , selling NOS or may be not so NOS tubes .
I bring mine every 4 years to a certified technician who has all the tube testing equipment , pay him a couple hundred euros and haver the whole thing checked incl tubes.
I let him sort out the tube quality

You might want to listen to some good NOS tubes...they can be had with a little research. Also, some of the more reputable dealers are a good source. Stock tubes in the CAT preamps are really NOT the way to go, IMO.
Having just rolled in some NOS Siemens into my line stage, I can tell you the difference is not subtle, tube to tube. ( i.e. Telefunken vs Siemens vs Mullard vs Ei etc)
 

andromedaaudio

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Davey , the guy who designed the freakin thing says it doesn't matter , lol
Who am I to seriously question that then,,,
From all the crap ive rolled in the pre , the best thing was just to have it incl tubes professionally checked
 

purevinyl

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i was Axpona and heard Ken explain some of the changes to both units (only briefly heard the conversation) both have upgraded wiring/caps and a few other things, i thought the Legend has the Black Path Caps also in the power supply and almost twice the caps on the circuit board? Best to call CAT for All changes made to both units...

Tube rolling in a CAT can be a good thing or not? the CAT pre's do demand Strong tested tubes. it will eat up a lot of NOS 6922's tubes, causing them to become noisy/microphonic very quickly! 12AX7'S are safe to roll, but the 6922's are a different story. the biggest Problem is not buying select/matched strong tubes., instead buying tubes from unreliable sources and proper testing??? Maybe CAT feels the same way and does not recommend tube rolling?


Forgot to mention i own the SL1 Black Path Renaissance Pre and i'm very happy and what a incredible phono! The New Pre's from CAT are a improvement,from the already great sounding previous CAT Pre's. in my experience the new Pre's have more resolution and transparent also dynamics. i believe if you have a fairly new model, it can be still upgraded to the latest ?
 

andromedaaudio

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Ps got my picture from here ,soundstage also tested the CAT ultimate Mk 2, I think stereophile tested the Renaissance , but I prefer testing myself also , ;) bought the Poweramp too based on their reviews , actually if I buy stuff I read soundstage first , also stereophile
Seeems to me the legend doesn't have double the caps compared to the renaissance unless they are solderd under the Teflon circuitcoards:D


http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/cat_sl1_legend.htm
 

DaveyF

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i was Axpona and heard Ken explain some of the changes to both units (only briefly heard the conversation) both have upgraded wiring/caps and a few other things, i thought the Legend has the Black Path Caps also in the power supply and almost twice the caps on the circuit board? Best to call CAT for All changes made to both units...

Tube rolling in a CAT can be a good thing or not? the CAT pre's do demand Strong tested tubes. it will eat up a lot of NOS 6922's tubes, causing them to become noisy/microphonic very quickly! 12AX7'S are safe to roll, but the 6922's are a different story. the biggest Problem is not buying select/matched strong tubes., instead buying tubes from unreliable sources and proper testing??? Maybe CAT feels the same way and does not recommend tube rolling?


Forgot to mention i own the SL1 Black Path Renaissance Pre and i'm very happy and what a incredible phono! The New Pre's from CAT are a improvement,from the already great sounding previous CAT Pre's. in my experience the new Pre's have more resolution and transparent also dynamics. i believe if you have a fairly new model, it can be still upgraded to the latest ?

Ok, I totally understand where Ken is coming from by NOT recommending tube rolling. I would do exactly the same thing if I were in his shoes...or any other manufacturers for that matter. For Ken to source consistent quality in NOS tubes is an unlikely event. Plus, the tubes he supplies as stock have to be warrantable, plentiful and have to sound ok.
However, having suggested to many other CAT owners that they roll tubes with good NOS, none have ever gone back to stock...and all have reported extreme gains with decent rolled in NOS tubes. IME, and as stated above, the gains in my SQ were obvious and large. BTW, there really is very little to lose by rolling tubes into the CAT.
 
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andromedaaudio

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Quote : BTW, there really is very little to lose by rolling tubes into the CAT.

Except banknotes rolling down from your bankroll :D
 

andromedaaudio

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I have some things in the works , might buy another power amp , a second hand dart 108 in the nearby future .
The Cat combined great with all solid state in the past.
I ll go with mikes advice lol
And may be a ml 32 but my soundexpirience might have changed and the ml lacks some transparancy compared to the cat.
I heard the dart only one time on an unfamiliar system but the highs sounded nice.
Upgrading to the legend , hmm not sure love the builtquality , but mine sounds Just right , so i would nt go for blind swap
 
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DaveyF

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The Cat preamp and the Dart amp should be a interesting match. If you do happen to acquire the Dart, please do report back on the result. I would expect a pretty good sound.
 

andromedaaudio

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Sure , and my speakers are very easy to drive so the dart should be able to show its full potential.
After that may be vitus levinson 33(h) and. Halcro lol.

Actually found a way to get the cat more quit, parked the Transformers behind the door, apart from a slight tube hiss heard nearby the tweeter , probably SOTA amplification
I can only Imagine how this Combo would sound in a sota room but IT would be a rush.
But my room in belgium ain't bad , its Just you gotta keep the volume moderate.
IMG_20180519_101232_8 by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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jeff1225

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Sure , and my speakers are very easy to drive so the dart should be able to show its full potential.
After that may be vitus levinson 33(h) and. Halcro lol.

Actually found a way to get the cat more quit, parked the Transformers behind the door, apart from a slight tube hiss heard nearby the tweeter , probably SOTA amplification
I can only Imagine how this Combo would sound in a sota room but IT would be a rush.
But my room in belgium ain't bad , its Just you gotta keep the volume moderate.
IMG_20180519_101232_8 by andromeda61, on Flickr

what kind of cables are you using?
 

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