Kt-120 and kt-150 tubes

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I am becoming an ever increasing fan of both the KT-120 and KT-150 output tubes. My first experience listening to the KT-120 tube was with the ARC VS115 I bought that ended up claiming my right bicep tendon. I wrote about the VS115 and the sound of the KT-120 tube on this forum several years ago. I bought the VS115 to tide me over while my KSA-250 was making another round trip to the Krell factory. I remember thinking that I was going to be in for a let down in the bass department when I switched over to listening to the VS115. Historically, some of us know that bass from tube amps is found lacking in extension and tightness in comparison to SS amps with big power supplies and high dampening factors. I think all of that is changing now and I think it has been changing for awhile. I remember remarking about the VS115 that not only was I not let down by the quality and extension of the bass in comparison to the KSA-250, I actually had to turn down the bass levels on my speakers I had at the time.

My first exposure to the KT-150 tube came when I reviewed the Raven Silhouette Reference monoblock amps a couple of months ago. Once again I was impressed with the quality of the bass and the extension of the bass. But more importantly, I'm impressed with how the KT-120 and KT-150 tubes sound from top to bottom. I have never been a big fan of any of the 6550/KT-88 tubes before with the exception of the real-deal NOS Genelex family of KT-88 tubes. Those are really very special tubes that have it all from top to bottom. Any other tubes I have heard in that family of 6550/KT-88s has paled in comparison. And I make no claim that I have heard all of the contenders, but I have heard some of them. GE 6550s have nice bass punch and leave me cold in the rest of the frequency spectrum. I never liked the SED KT-88 tubes nor was overly thrilled with the Gold Lion KT-88 reissues. Raven Audio sent me two quads of NOS Tung-Sol 6550s to listen to in addition to the KT-150 tubes. While I could admire the creamy midrange of the Tung-Sols, they just aren't capable of making equal power across the audio band like the KT-120 and KT-150 tubes.

So now I have an ARC REF 75 that comes with the KT-120 tubes and the amp has a long way to go in order to break-in. However, stone cold out of the box, I'm still a happy camper and once again I'm taken aback with the bottom end of this amplifier and the KT-120 tube. With regards to output tubes, we may well be in the golden age of tubes. My opinion may change later, but for the here and now I think both the KT-120 and KT-150 tubes are solid home runs. They are cut from the same sonic cloth from top to bottom instead of being a Frankenstein tube with one kind of bass, another type of midrange, and yet another type of highs. If you have a tube amp and you can use either the KT-120 or the KT-150, I highly recommend that you give them a try.
 

puroagave

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Sep 29, 2011
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I have an amp that takes kt-88 or 6550s. the mfr approved the kt-120 as an upgrade and I was not prepared for the change, it was pretty profound and for the better.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I have an amp that takes kt-88 or 6550s. the mfr approved the kt-120 as an upgrade and I was not prepared for the change, it was pretty profound and for the better.

I'm glad you like them too!
 

Dre_J

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Mar 5, 2012
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...However, stone cold out of the box, I'm still a happy camper and once again I'm taken aback with the bottom end of this amplifier and the KT-120 tube. With regards to output tubes, we may well be in the golden age of tubes. My opinion may change later...

What speakers are you using right now Mark?

Dre
 

Roysen

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I have the choice of 60 KT-150 tubes and 20 KT-120 tubes or 80 KT-150 tubes in my pair of TRL 800 amps. Any recomendation of these tubes against each other.
 

mep

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Roysen-I really don't know anything about your amp so I would want to know what the designer thinks sounds best. I don't understand the potential for the 60/20 split and how that would affect the sound.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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What speakers are you using right now Mark?

Dre


The only speakers I have left without stealing from my HT system-the Paradigm Mini Monitor v.3. I think I talked about them earlier in another thread. Hopefully I will have my KOs sometime in May. If I'm reading your mind, no the Paradigms don't get to the bottom of the bottom octave. I remarked in the other thread that the midbass punch from these speakers coupled with my subs is much better than the midbass punch I was getting with the much larger and much more expensive Def Tech BP7000SC speakers which have four 6 1/2" drivers per cabinet plus the built in 14" sub. The combo of the Paradigms with subs has better bass extension than the combo of the Def Tech BP7000SC with subs did. Substituting the REF 75 for the KSA-250 has made it even better as counter intuitive as that may sound. After having the ARC VS115 in my system with KT-120 tubes, I'm not surprised.
 

mep

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I am just asking you if you can describe the KT-120 vs the KT-150.

The KT-120 and KT-150 sound very similar to me. I think they are both very pure sounding tubes. The only amp that I have heard the KT-150 tube in is the Raven amp I mentioned earlier. However, the Raven amp was not designed around the KT-150 and is not taking advantage of the much larger plate dissipation it has compared to the 6550/KT-88 family of tubes. I don't know if anyone has designed an amp specifically for the KT-150 tube which would require a different power supply and bigger output transformers to maximize the output power available from them. Maybe the KT-150 will just sound the same with more power. I know that when I removed the NOS Tung Sol 6550s and replaced them with the KT-150s, I had no desire to switch back to the Tung Sol 6550s. The bottom line is there are probably lots of tube amps that are 'compatible' with running the KT-120 and KT-150 tubes, but they are not designed specifically for these tubes. The ARC REF 75 was designed for the KT-120 tube.

In summary, based on my very limited exposure to both the KT-120 and KT-150 tubes, they both sound very similar to me and I find that sound to be quite appealing. There is a purity about them from top to bottom that I find captivating. I simply don't have enough experience listening to the KT-150 and comparing it to the KT-120 to give you a more definitive comparison.
 

mep

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Nah. Just didn't remember what speaker you were using. Nothing sinister...

Dre


I'm pretty sure the title of the thread I wrote to discuss the Paradigms was something along the lines of "Slumming It." I had to have something to hold me over until the Nols KOs arrive, but I wasn't expecting too much from the Paradigms and I was pleasantly shocked. I was even more pleasantly shocked when I hooked up the REF 75 to them. I wouldn't trade them for a pair of LS50s even though the LS50s cost more and are far more sexy to look at. The LS50s are a very pure sounding speaker, but part of that purity comes from what they don't do and what is left out. The Paradigms sound like a much larger speaker than the LS50s and with much more bass.
 

Lissnr

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May 31, 2012
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Hello Roysen, I know this is a fairly old thread but I just stumbled upon it today and thought i would say hello. There's probably a good chance you have already made your decision about your KT120's vs 150's but I just wanted to mention I had the same choice several months ago but on a slightly smaller scale. I had been running KT120's in my TRL amps also (GT200's) and Paul had mentioned to me how impressed he was with the new 150's so I took his word on it and ordered some of the first ones to arrive here in the US. (I use only 4 @ KT150's per channel so my $$$$ was quite a bit less than yours).
In a word: he was right and they are fantastic tubes. The 120's I thought were very good...nice overall extension through the full band and very "accomplished" with no glaring faults and a generally neutral character. I had previous experiences with other amps using standard EH KT 88's as well as SED Winged C 6550's which I was accustomed to but the TRL's were of course such a superior design that it wasn't possible to really assess tube differences in different amps (I used a Cary and a pair of CJ monos with both the EH 88's and SED 6550's).
When I swapped the 120's for the 150's in the TRL's it was obvious the general 'house sound' of the 120's continued but the 'competence level' jumped considerably...That is everything just shone through with much more vigor and expression. It took a bit of lackluster and added tremendous energy to the mix. Every factor on the scale was more evenly portrayed and at the same time there was an emotional involvement I hadn't really noticed before with the 120's. But the night/day obvious difference was the bass. Absolutely awesome...punchy, extended, full and deep. Well worth it all ...you won't go back. Good luck with it and enjoy...
 

andromedaaudio

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I ve been listening to the KT 120 tubes now for a month or so , apart from power and different poweramp design 100 watt tube design versus 8 watt
I d say the 300 B s ive used (Sophia electric RP , Full music 300 B n ) are leaner then the KT tubes , less full - tubey ? , less detailed by quite a margin , bass is very good with the KT 120 s , about as good as it gets , the 300 B s just dont have the weight
The 300 B the most audiophile / musical tube there is , not IMO i would say the KT 120 Tungsol (Svetlana ? ) is a step better

PS The fact that the CAT is more detailed could also have to do with the coupling caps in the design and not so much the tubes , the ones ken stevens makes could just let more detail go through then the zanden , i dont know , i also heard some ARC designs a while ago which also used KT 120 s iirc and they also sounded very detailed
I also heard the zanden on 100 db horns and quite a few other high eff designs and although the 300 B s benefitted somewhat the overall character didnt change much
 
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Glory

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Oct 28, 2011
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I have the KT 150 tubes and a tube "head" told me the TS NOS 6550 tubes are far and above better than the new TS KT 150 tubes. Anyone agree with this thought ?
 

Lissnr

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2012
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313
Native New Yorker
Comparing new construction tubes to NOS is often not a fair situation as most of us realize
the build / machining was different "back then". There may very well be some facets of improved performance via the older ( and MUCH less powerful) 6550's but I'm sure specific system requirements and aural preferences and taste will obviously come into play as well. Suffice to say the NOS tubes are probably worth
Investigating but I'm always reluctant to imply there are orders - of - magnitude differences ( I know, not your quote...) and keep in mind that besides easy availability, the overall sound of the 150's is very well balanced. Remember, in many tube amp designs the final sound can also be "shaped" by tubes preceeding them in the chain ( insert your other prized NOS tubes there?). Lastly, there's that BASS... and I know there is no amp short of a beefy Solid State that can control your woofers better than a competently designed tube amp making the most of KT 150 output tubes...All I know is mine are a revelation in how far a tube amp can meet demanding speaker/ room combinations with aplomb... and never make me second guess whether SS amps would be a better choice....("Not that there's anything 'wrong' with that!").
Good luck and Happy Lissn'n!
 

Glory

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
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Destin, FL.
Well $600.00 for a quad of NOS TS 6550 tubes is a lot of $$$ to pee away if they are not up to the 150. Have the QS Silver 88 amps and it is the = to my 325 watt Maker Audio SS amps in the bass or is it base :) department. I think I will pass on the NOS 6550 tubes.
 

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