Politics, religion and audio

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audioguy

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I know the discussion of politics and religion is being looked at by Steve and Amir but, quite frankly, the issue has zero to do with the subject and everything to do with the posters.

I would suggest that threads on digital vs analog and the value of cables and the worthiness of room correction and any other number of subjects have all had threads go quickly into the toilet. They are not one bit less controversial than religion and politics.

And it will continue to happen. And for what it's worth, my bet would be that not a single individual has ever had their position changed on any of the controversial subjects by someone posting a high quality opposing view.

There will continue to be subjects that cause individuals to have their blood pressure triple and they will, if allowed to do so, respond accordingly. Unfortunately, it will take two things to deal with this issue on any thread: (1) some set of reasonably well articulated guidelines posted by Steve/Amir on forum decorum (not a task I would want to tackle) and then (2) immediate post deletion and/or poster banning upon breaking the rules. But closing threads (i.e. punishing the masses for the sins of a few) makes no sense to me.

Just my $0.02
 

rbbert

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One big problem already noted - posters often are trying to convince others to convert to their point of view; not necessarily a problem until frustration leads to loss of civility and ad hominem comments. Another problem with debates or arguments anywhere - the expression of opinion as fact. I know there is little that gets my dander up more than that, even though I'm sure I'm occasionally guilty of it as well.
 

audioguy

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One big problem already noted - posters often are trying to convince others to convert to their point of view; not necessarily a problem until frustration leads to loss of civility and ad hominem comments. Another problem with debates or arguments anywhere - the expression of opinion as fact. I know there is little that gets my dander up more than that, even though I'm sure I'm occasionally guilty of it as well.

Understood but that goes back to the guidelines. And while I think it's a complete waste of time, trying to convert another to your point of view is not the issue. It is the tone that is attached to that attempt.

As a former boss once said;
You know you said it wrong if you can finish the sentence: 'comma, stupid'
. And that tone is very easy to pick up in either a verbal conversation or even a written one.

And if debates must be grounded in fact, then let's get rid of all debates on most audio components. It is 99% opinion!!! (In my opinion :D)
 

rbbert

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I'm not saying debates must be grounded in fact, only that opinion should not be presented as fact
 

Johnny Vinyl

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I promise that we are looking at this in order that we can establish a proper position

Which is exactly what I was hoping to bring to light in the other thread.

Thanks!
 

Phelonious Ponk

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I think we do better with politics than we do with religion -- digital vs analog. And I know what my personal problem is: I slap back. I don't think I've started a thread that invited that endless debate. I very rarely jump into the middle of threads with zingers aimed at people instead of points of view, and I end up feeling bad when I do. But there are people who seem to love to start this fight, or take positions in it that are personal, not factual, and I can't seem to resist the urge to slap back. Sorry.

There will continue to be subjects that cause individuals to have their blood pressure triple and they will, if allowed to do so, respond accordingly. Unfortunately, it will take two things to deal with this issue on any thread: (1) some set of reasonably well articulated guidelines posted by Steve/Amir on forum decorum (not a task I would want to tackle) and then (2) immediate post deletion and/or poster banning upon breaking the rules. But closing threads (i.e. punishing the masses for the sins of a few) makes no sense to me.

There's a lot of this, and it's not limited to closing threads, which is pretty rare. It is quite common for mods to admonish everyone in an argument when it should be obvious who crossed the line. I used to be a mod here, and I completely understand it, but it doesn't work. Deleting the first post that crosses that line, before anyone responds to it? Deleting the threads that draw that line in the sand and double-dog dare anyone to cross that line (hint: if they're titled anything like "Why (blank) is better than (blank) and everyone should own the (blank) that I own" we have a winner)? That would address the problem and the perps instead of wagging a finger at the whole class because the 3 guys in the back are flicking spitballs. But that would take a whole lot of moderation. An alternative? Delete the line-crossing threads. Delete the line-crossing post and those that reply. Send a warning to the guy who started the trouble (it's not that hard to figure out). Give them 3 shots, then eject them.

Simple enough.

Hell, maybe I'm fooling myself. Maybe I think I'm just responding in kind when I'm one of the guys starting fight threads or throwing the first punch. Show me. I'll stop. And if I can't, show me the door. But while I might be fooling myself about myself, I'm seeing a few people here pretty clearly. And if making it personal is really against the rules, they should have been gone long ago. But I can't just have monkey poo thrown at me and not throw back. Nature of the beast. Stop the poo-slingers and I'll find it very easy to keep it clean.

Tim
 

mep

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^ I'm going to keep my mouth shut.
 

Mosin

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I have participated in some of those threads, and while I may disagree with someone on a given topic, another topic invariably arises where we are in agreement.

There isn't a reason I can think of that would excuse one from being civil. But, if your blood pressure gets out of hand, you can turn off your computer without consequence, can't you? After all, it is just the Internet. Nobody is going to punch you in the face for not agreeing with them...


...until they see you at the next audio show! :D
 

mep

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What people don't realize is how similar audio is to religion. The biggest difference is that we are more fractured in our audio beliefs than all of the numerous religions put together.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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What people don't realize is how similar audio is to religion. The biggest difference is that we are more fractured in our audio beliefs than all of the numerous religions put together.

Oh, I think we do.

Tim
 

Ronm1

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No jihad decrees due to audio dogma on the forum yet!
 

zztop7

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Inquisitions

At least audio does not have Inquisitions - lots of death, torture, & confiscations. I am not picking on one religion; these actions have been active in almost all religions. And let us not forget the profit motive - generally no tax on religions; especially no real estate tax. Who owns % wise the most property in Boston?

zz.
 

GaryProtein

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OK, enough talk.

Let's get a discussion going where we can really sling some mud!




Just kidding.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
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At least audio does not have Inquisitions - lots of death, torture, & confiscations. I am not picking on one religion; these actions have been active in almost all religions. And let us not forget the profit motive - generally no tax on religions; especially no real estate tax. Who owns % wise the most property in Boston?

zz.

In my opinion, this is the kind of post (on religion or any other subject) that invites argumentative responses: tax benefits for religion; religious inquisitions; you name it. There are LOTS of organizations that have favorable (unfair?) tax advantages and large corporations do as well; and "religions" don't start wars and have inquisitions, people do. Hitler was an atheist.

I'm not really picking on this poster. I have no doubt that I have posted the equivalent (on digital vs analog and the sound of cables). What I am suggesting is that it will take serious due diligence on the part of posters (and Herculean effort on the part of the mods) to keep this in line!
 

zztop7

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In my opinion, this is the kind of post (on religion or any other subject) that invites argumentative responses: tax benefits for religion; religious inquisitions; you name it. There are LOTS of organizations that have favorable (unfair?) tax advantages and large corporations do as well; and "religions" don't start wars and have inquisitions, people do. Hitler was an atheist.

I'm not really picking on this poster. I have no doubt that I have posted the equivalent (on digital vs analog and the sound of cables). What I am suggesting is that it will take serious due diligence on the part of posters (and Herculean effort on the part of the mods) to keep this in line!


Please note that it is a comparative post in Praise of Audio - note how the paragraph begins.

Seeing that as of this point Audio does NOT have "death, torture, & confiscations" - any tax benefits should be shifted to us. Everyone else gets an entitlement; why not us?

zz.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Good morning all..

I am going to take the liberty of closing this and the other pertinent thread as the admin team have listened to all suggestions and we will be making our forum position on these topics very soon
 
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