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Thread: La Assoluta

  1. #481
    Only last week I mentioned on this thread that I considered the Kagura amps fully burned in after playing them for 1000 hours. However, this week I experienced additional smoothness/liquidity/unmechanicallness while I am at a little over this 1000 hours ’theshold’. ’Threshold’ because my Kondo distributor informed me that the Kagura’s need 800-1000 hours.

    As a non technie I do not know if the large transformers of the Kagura’s need (a little bit?) more than this 1000 hours. Another explanation for this positive development might be that the nearly new RCA tubes (when we rebiassed the Kagura amps we could measure that the RCA 211 valves were almost new; the seller informed me that they had not played for more than 20 hours) are opening up. I played these 211 tubes for almost 100 hours now and maybe they are (also) getting better. However, not everybody is convinced that tubes also need to be played in. That said, my experience is somewhat different: tubes need some time/playing hours in order to be able to fully blossom.

    Anyway, apparently I have still not discovered the full potential of these single ended triode behemoths, even apart from tube rolling.

    This is one crazy, sometimes quite frustrating and at the same time rewarding hobby!
    Last edited by Audiocrack; 01-13-2018 at 08:45 AM.

  2. #482
    Addicted to Best! Blue58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiocrack View Post
    Only last week I mentioned on this thread that I considered the Kagura amps fully burned in after playing them for 1000 hours. However, this week I experienced additional smoothness/liquidity/unmechanicallness while I am at a little over this 1000 hours ’theshold’. ’Threshold’ because my Kondo distributor informed me that the Kagura’s need 800-1000 hours.

    As a non technie I do not know if the large transformers of the Kagura’s need (a little bit?) more than this 1000 hours. Another explanation for this positive development might be that the nearly new RCA tubes (when we rebiassed the Kagura amps we could measure that the RCA 211 valves were almost new; the seller informed me that they had not played for more than 20 hours) are opening up. I played these 211 tubes for almost 100 hours now and maybe they are (also) getting better. However, not everybody is convinced that tubes also need to be played in. That said, my experience is somewhat different: tubes need some time/playing hours in order to be able to fully blossom.

    Anyway, apparently I have still not discovered the full potential of these single ended triode behemoths, even apart from tube rolling.

    This is one crazy, sometimes quite frustrating and at the same time rewarding hobby!
    You’re way off the mark from being burnt-in.
    I’d consider capacitors take at least 500 hrs to settle, tubes closer to 1000 hrs but silver transformers, from experience, just get better and better and I swear mine sounded better 2 years later.
    I wouldn’t consider a behemoth like your Kagura to be ‘settled’ until after 12 months average usage.
    You’ve an even more rewarding experience to come.

    Cheers
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  3. #483
    Site Founder And Administrator Ron Resnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue58 View Post
    . . . silver transformers, from experience, just get better and better and I swear mine sounded better 2 years later.

    . . .
    Why do you think this might be? Do you have a theory?
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  4. #484
    Addicted to Best! Blue58's Avatar
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    No theories, just what I hear and what I heard from my silver transformers.
    Call it imagination if you wish or simply an increase in musical enjoyment with ageing.
    I’m tired if all this ‘having to prove everything mentality’, why can’t we just be happy.
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  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue58 View Post
    You’re way off the mark from being burnt-in.
    I’d consider capacitors take at least 500 hrs to settle, tubes closer to 1000 hrs but silver transformers, from experience, just get better and better and I swear mine sounded better 2 years later.
    I wouldn’t consider a behemoth like your Kagura to be ‘settled’ until after 12 months average usage.
    You’ve an even more rewarding experience to come.

    Cheers
    That is an interesting view as regards breaking in amps with silver transformers like my Kagura’s as well as breaking in tubes.

    As regards the latter: do you really think (all) tubes need so many hours (around 1000) to break in? A good friend of mine - a reviewer for some Dutch audio magazines - has been playing with tubes in his own system for as long as I know him (at least 20 years) and he claims that this audiophile talk about burning in tubes is nonsense. However, I disagree with him on this point.

    As regards the former: the number of 800-1000 burning in hours came from the distributor from whom I bought my Kagura amps and the Kondo G-1000 linestage. I assumed he got this info from the Kondo factory but I have never asked him this explicitly. I will need to check this. I hope you are right of course and there is still more audio fun or a higher quality playback to come.

    However, I am sure that with the one set of Kondo Gakuoh (albeit push pull and 300B) amps that I bought new I did not need that much breaking in time. But the transformers of the Kagura’s are (much) larger than those of the Gakuoh amps. Anyway, let’s see and - as mentioned before - hopefully you are right!
    Last edited by Audiocrack; 01-13-2018 at 10:03 AM.

  6. #486
    Addicted to Best! Blue58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiocrack View Post
    That is an interesting view as regards breaking in amps with silver transformers like my Kagura’s as well as breaking in tubes.

    As regards the latter: do you really think (all) tubes need so many hours (around 1000) to break in? A good friend of mine - a reviewer for some Dutch audio magazines - has been playing with tubes in his own system for as long as I know him (at least 20 years) and he claims that this audiophile talk about burning in tubes is nonsense. However, I disagree with him on this point.

    As regards the former: the number of 800-1000 burning in hours came from the distributor from whom I bought my Kagura amps and the Kondo G-1000 linestage. I assumed he got this info from the Kondo factory but I have never asked him this explicitly. I will need to check this. I hope you are right of course and there is still more audio fun or a higher quality playback to come.

    However, I am sure that with the one set of Kondo Gakuoh (albeit push pull and 300B) amps that I bought new I did not need that much breaking in time. But the transformers of the Kagura’s are (much) larger than those of the Gakuoh amps. Anyway, let’s see and - as mentioned before - hopefully you are right!
    It’s what I hear and I’ve no explanation.
    For something analogous think aged wood or wine and in Kondo case don’t they use aged silver wire?

    My new amps have upwards of1000 hrs on them and some days they just don’t sound right and it’s not the incoming power as my old amps did the same then settled down and proceeded to get better over the year/s.

    I think you have an amazing future with the Kagura, just don’t get bogged down in the tube rolling during this lengthy burn in. Find a tube you like the tone of that really speaks to you and stick with it. You’ll know when you hear it.

    Blue58
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  7. #487
    Senior Member GMKF's Avatar
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    Some cable manufacturers subject their new cables to high voltages and high current. This is supposed to optimize their conductive profile and have a positive effect on the sound.

    So its entierly possible that the longer you use your amps, the better the transformer wire gets, because they are subjected to more cycles of current and voltage.
    You can never have enough power !!

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  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue58 View Post
    It’s what I hear and I’ve no explanation.
    For something analogous think aged wood or wine and in Kondo case don’t they use aged silver wire?

    My new amps have upwards of1000 hrs on them and some days they just don’t sound right and it’s not the incoming power as my old amps did the same then settled down and proceeded to get better over the year/s.

    I think you have an amazing future with the Kagura, just don’t get bogged down in the tube rolling during this lengthy burn in. Find a tube you like the tone of that really speaks to you and stick with it. You’ll know when you hear it.

    Blue58
    Will do. I will definately not change the four metal base rectifiers, the Telefunken ECC802S input tube and the two CV181 valves I am currently using. I am also quite happy with the RCA 211 valves but - and I refer to the 211 valves thread on WBF - some audiophiles with a lot of ‘211 nos tubes experience’ (such as for example Justin (User 211)) are sure that in particular Amperex produced better sounding nos 211 tubes than RCA. So it will be very interesting to try the Amperex and/or United Electronics quod I have available somewhere in the future. However, in light of the progression I experienced last week I want to play with the RCA’s for at least an additional couple of hundred hours before considering the other 211 brands.
    Last edited by Audiocrack; 01-13-2018 at 12:32 PM.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by GMKF View Post
    Some cable manufacturers subject their new cables to high voltages and high current. This is supposed to optimize their conductive profile and have a positive effect on the sound.

    So its entierly possible that the longer you use your amps, the better the transformer wire gets, because they are subjected to more cycles of current and voltage.
    Thanks and I hope you and Blue58 are right. Will keep you posted about how things wil develop in the next couple of months.

    Btw, the delivery of the Anaconda’s - the Tripoint Emperor grounding cables - that I am eagerly awaiting is postponed. Hopefully Miguel will be able to ship these cables at the end of this month. A few others and I have experienced what the ‘Tripoint anaconda’s’ bring to the (audio) table when Miguel visited me a couple of months ago and connected them to the Tidal LA’s and the G-1000: as described earlier in this thread we were all very, very impressed. So hopefully exciting audio adventures lie ahead of us.
    Last edited by Audiocrack; 01-14-2018 at 05:21 AM.

  10. #490
    Site Founder And Administrator Ron Resnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue58 View Post
    No theories, just what I hear and what I heard from my silver transformers.
    Call it imagination if you wish or simply an increase in musical enjoyment with ageing.
    I’m tired if all this ‘having to prove everything mentality’, why can’t we just be happy.
    Fair enough! Just being happy is good.

    (My slightly technical background (now long stale) from my amateur radio days inclines me to attempt to discipline and explain my bucket of audio self-delusion with a few drops of objectivity and rationality.)
    Mono and Stereo - Senior Contributing Reviewer

    turntable: American Sound AS-2000 (ordered) tonearm: SME 3012R (to come); cartridge: ZYX Universe Premium X-SB2 or Koetsu Coralstone (TBD)
    tape: Studer A820 Mk II
    phono stage: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 power supplies; line stage: Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with 2 power supplies; amplifier: VTL MB-750s
    speakers: Gryphon Pendragons
    cables: MasterBuilt Ultra or Cardas Clear Beyond (TBD); power: Benjamin Electric subpanel; Torus AVR60BAL; JPS in-wall wire; Furutech NCF outlets; room: 20' wide X 25' long X 15' tall; treatment: ASC Tube Traps and Tower Slims; tweaks: Shakti Stones, Shun Mooks (Kedar to place)

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