High Res Provenance

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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Read an interview with Neil Young where he had not a clue that his music was upsampled. Was recorded at 24/48 and being sold at 24/96. This got me to thinking, does John Q. Public really have a clue??
Let me back track here a bit. Several times I've had mixes in here that were purportedly recorded at 24/96, 24/192 or even DSD. Looking at spectrums and such was really confusing. My opinion is if a track was recorded at 24/192 and for some reason mixed at 24/44.1 and mastered at 24/96, the file will forever be at the lowest rate of 24/44.1

Now let's dig deeper. Let's say an album was recorded at 24/352.8 and during mixing they threw some plugins on the track. "Most" plugin's native sample rate is 24/96. Does this mean the track will forever be 24/96? There are some plugins that can operate as high as 32/384kHz but there are also some freebie plugs that only operate at 16/44.1 So is a "hi-rez" album that was recorded using 16/44.1 plugs forever 16/44.1? Most mastering engineers and even mix engineers use the Weiss EQ and Comp units and some use the Waves unit. These are digital hardware processors whose native sample rates is 24/96. No one will know, right?

I've seen several people want to know what the sample rate is during Recording/Mixing/Mastering... fine.. but that won't tell you Jack Sh*t. They could have gone through an analog console or crappy processors and into a cheap converter several times. We all know about the debacle when labels took their 24/44.1 material and upsampled it to DSD for SACD production.

What If something was recorded at DSD256fs but one little crossfade was needed for <2seconds. Does this mean that the recording will forever now be 24/352.8kHz... Hell no.. not if the engineer did it correctly. If the engineer rendered the whole piece from top to tail in DXD, then who would know?

Folks, we have bigger fish to fry. The Audacity Cowboys are getting a posse together and trying to take down the whole music industry. If we can't even trust someone who is a big proponent of High Rez music (Neil Young), then who can we trust?
 

Asamel

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2012
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I didn't realize there was Hirez Neil Young available. Any idea where?
 

Asamel

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2012
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Got it. Which interview are you referencing?
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Bruce B

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Trust but verify. I don't know the answer, but the truth for me is that its the compression. Frankly, I will take redbook properly compressed (say 20db dynamic range or so) over high resolution compressed to 1 or 2 db. If I want tone, I will put it in via tone controls etc. However, the audacity cowboys are doing a service as well, and Bruce if you have to run something through a lower resolution box, then just saying it, disclosing it, would be the proper thing to do, and not downgrade the entire mix over one cowbell that was processed at a lower resolution. But, then, how many lower resolution things in a mix mean it is no longer counciousnable to declare the whole mix high resolution. For those in the know, the high resolution illusion is already somewhat shattered IMO.

The thing that gets me is that people want full disclosure of what? Do they want the sample rate of the recording or the mixing or the mastering or what equipment they used or what plugins they used? All can have an effect of the overall file. We're not talking about using a plugin on a cowbell.... we're talking about master buss compression or EQ that's over the whole recording or mix. Then what if they went through a SSL or Neve or API or Midas or lowly Mackie or Behringer board? Where does it stop?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I'm not going to make it my problem. That's my stance in all this. If it's good it's good, if it's not then it's not. Movin' on.
 

LenWhite

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2011
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I think there's going to be certain high resolution download websites trusted more than others as time passes - that may already be the case to some extent.

In any event I really like the idea of having access to more oop and current music in high resolution.

I intend to look for music reviews that speak to SQ when possible, but in the end I'll trust my ears. And if I find a particular download site is selling me what I consider to be inferior sounding high resolution files, I'll stop buying from that website.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Several mags have done just that. Over at CA, there is a forum where they test the validity of the files, but none really about the quality. I know several threads on WBF that have addressed certain downloads.
 

LenWhite

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Feb 11, 2011
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rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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And let's be clear, it has little or nothing to do with the Website from whom you purchase, and everything to do with the specific record label and engineers. Even then I suspect there is nothing like 100% consistency.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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(...) If we can't even trust someone who is a big proponent of High Rez music (Neil Young), then who can we trust?

I must say that this was one of the several reasons why I gave up HiRez for the time being and decided to get the best CD player combo I could afford for my system. When I found myself looking at the spectrogram of recordings I realized this was not my way of being an audiophile. ;)
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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microstrip

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Indeed ... with all those LP from Digital Masters ...

Frantz,

Fortunately the digital LPs of the 80's were clearly (and proudly) labeled as so. As far as I know "all those LP" you are addressing are so few that should not be a problem for audiophiles, although they can fuel audiophile debates.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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Frantz,

Fortunately the digital LPs of the 80's were clearly (and proudly) labeled as so. As far as I know "all those LP" you are addressing are so few that should not be a problem for audiophiles, although they can fuel audiophile debates.

Actually a large percentage of currently released vinyl is sourced from digital masters. If it's "new" music, it's more likely to have gone through a digital stage than not. And the problem is the same as with hires digital; in most cases the provenance of the recording chain is difficult or impossible to come by.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Indeed ... with all those LP from Digital Masters ...

Don't look at me. I don't normally buy digital sourced LPs. Nothing unless I know it's from the original tapes and kept in the analog domain. And there's plenty of them.

Save for three instances. The Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions and MOFI release, Holly Cole and Patricia Barber releases (all IIRC are 16/44). But I don't lose any sleep over the sound. The music transcends the sound.
 

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