Stillpoints: Isolation and How do YOU do it?

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Its taken a lot of systematic experimentation in my own system to get to the current level of isolation. I know exactly what tone I want the system to produce...its my primary #1 goal of all...and I find that isolation simply allows that tone to come thru clearer and stronger each time I isolate a component. But there are a lot of dead-ends and pitfalls I have found along the way...namely because every isolation material has its own pros/cons that affect the sound.

(Note: all my electronics are already in a custom rack: 4" thick birch ply sitting on top of 2" slab of slate.)

Here are my own conclusions to date:

1. Isolation Sandwiches work best for me. Basically isolation underneath and damping and often 'mass damping' on top.

2. Each material has slightly sound-related tendencies to either: adjust the tonal balance (typically when made purely of metal) or not to be quite as perfectly clear (pure elastomer only).

3. Mass Damping works extremely well...Adding pure weight on top of a component...but be careful.
When done right, mass damping helps to 'concentrate' the signal. Extraneous vibration are even more controlled/dampened. When its right, you will find a violin string crescendo at the very peak of the note suddenly takes on this INTENSE sweetness even as the note hits the high which normally 'screeches' just a teeny bit. The screech is not the string...its the miniscule vibration that then breaks up that last bit of note. (At least, that's my non-techie way of understanding it).

I actually discovered this when, by accident, I ended up with an extra Auralex platform and stuck it under my Gryphon Colosseum...greater depth (wow!) but lost tonal weight in keyboard. I placed an Artesania damping plate on top...it had helped smaller amps a lot...and it helped (a little). Randomly, I began pressing down on the top of the Gryphon...kinda thinking 'maybe more damping'...at first nothing. Then I kept pressing, and blam!...the strings hit a crescendo and there was this intense purity. I kept releasing and trying...and it kept coming back as soon as I hit that critical amount of pressure. I took a weight scale and placed it on top of the gryphon to understand how much weight I was applying. 20kg.

I have a mirror polished brass weight on top of the Artesania damping plate on top of the Gryphon now.

Now there are definitely some 'watch-outs' with mass damping.
a. Add a few pounds and you may hear absolutely no difference. I found on my components 20kg (45 pounds) makes the difference. Gryphon Colosseum and Tripoint Thor both have 20kg of solid brass on top. The Tripoint manufacturer actually supported my experiment when I told him my findings...I thought like many manufacturers he would deny it. Instead, he confirmed it should work and he does similar things, indicating that no matter how robust the casing, [properly] mass damping will add that extra bit of isolation that should work for the reasons above.
b. I CANNOT put the pure metal on top of any of my cabinets. I always have the brass on top of a well designed damper (Artesania, HRS). Otherwise, the sound hardens...its downright awful. very hard and unforgiving...deadens the decay of notes.
c. on the aesthetic side which for many of us matters...I use mirror polished brass scientific weights. I buy them second hand but in mint condition. I have 76lbs on top of the Velodyne, 45lbs on Gryphon, 45 pounds on Tripoint Thor

4. So what does an 'isolation sandwich' look like typically?
- Underneath: [HRS M3 with Nimbus Couplers] OR [Ultra 5s with HRS Nimbus on top of the Ultra 5s] OR [Ultra 5s on top of Auralex Isolation Platform]. As mentioned above, the Ultra 5s do alter the tonality just a touch in my system...just a teeny leaning out of the lower treble...piano loses weight and feels like electronic keyboard'ish. I read so many great reviews of Ultra 5...after buying them...I found 1 review (on the Stillpoints site!) noting this exact phenomena...and I am fortunate I have managed to fix it in my system because I love the Ultra 5s. Adding the Nimbus Couplers adds ALL that lower treble tonal weight back...but maintains ALL the clarity of the spectacularly clear, delineated Ultra 5
- On Top: HRS double-thickness Dampers, Artesania Dampers and sometimes Ultra 5...and sometimes mass damping too.

Again, I know exactly what tone I want the system to produce...its my primary #1 goal of all...and I find that isolation simply allows that tone to come thru clearer and stronger each time I isolate a component. But along the way to making the sandwich configuration, the tone will change...and it takes experimentation for each component's isolation sandwich to ensure the tone I want is maintained...while continuing to eliminate vibration, grunge, mechanical distortion...which again makes that tone sing thru even clearer, better and more beautifully/purely.

Nowadays, i can demonstrate to visitors that SLIDING AN ULTRA 5 across the top of one component makes a difference. It has become that sensitive to alterations in vibration. The Ultra 5 Distributor who came to visit was extremely surprised.

Conclusion
Every single component in my system is in its own 'isolation sandwich'...something underneath and something on top. That is 12 components...each 'isolation sandwich' is slightly different for that particular component. Even my Wilson X1s are on Ultra 5s...but I have also found that adding a 3lb weight inside the woofer port in the back helps 'still' the bass...note: adding 10lbs actually killed the resonance of the bass artificially so there was no natural decay...the bass roll-off just "dropped off" instead which was clearly wrong. I know there is huge vibration on the top of the big woofer cabinet, and if I could find a way to slide an Artesania damper plate underneath the main modules, I would try it.

My two cents. Hope that helps some fellow members who are experimenting with isolation.
 
Last edited:

flez007

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Aug 31, 2010
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Thanks Lloyd, I am in the very early stages experimenting with shelves, pucks and cones - and following your advice I have found great improvements in my system. What Lloyd shared here does not belong to the Nice-to-Have category, but to the Must-do one.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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All my components rest on a different type of sandwich. Metal interfaces on multiple alternating layers of different polymer sheets with an asphalt like substance in between. This is then encased in stainless steel (sides and bottom) then on cups on bearings. Finally onto aircraft grade aluminum supports ground with titanium spikes.

I only use weights on top of my most slightly built components. I've heard no difference on the more heavy duty stuff. I'm into purity of tone and that means not scrubbing out harmonics as sometimes happens with high density material or having too much with low density materials. The constrained layer damping recipe employed in my system, to me, is very well balanced. I'm a happy camper as are my growing number of clients who in the past refused to believe that supports matter.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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I know this is a Stillpoints forum, but has anyone here tried the RTS rack and clamp system?

www.dynamic-contrasts.com
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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All my components rest on a different type of sandwich. Metal interfaces on multiple alternating layers of different polymer sheets with an asphalt like substance in between. This is then encased in stainless steel (sides and bottom) then on cups on bearings. Finally onto aircraft grade aluminum supports ground with titanium spikes.

I only use weights on top of my most slightly built components. I've heard no difference on the more heavy duty stuff. I'm into purity of tone and that means not scrubbing out harmonics as sometimes happens with high density material or having too much with low density materials. The constrained layer damping recipe employed in my system, to me, is very well balanced. I'm a happy camper as are my growing number of clients who in the past refused to believe that supports matter.

That sounds great, Jack...did you have this custom-made for you? Sounds like it...very cool. As for heavier components...how much weight did you put on them? I found NO difference with as much as 15kg on top...but if I put 20kg on top of an HRS or Artesania damper on top of the heavier components (Gryphon, Tripoint, Velodyne)...then as soon as it crossed the 20kg threshold, it made a difference. Just curious as to your own experiments...these were just my findings.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I know this is a Stillpoints forum, but has anyone here tried the RTS rack and clamp system?

www.dynamic-contrasts.com

Hi...I have heard 2 systems in Hong Kong which used these...they really liked them. I did not A/B as I thought it would be rude to start dis-assembling their system in their home. That said, I think if well built, with enough resonance control/tension around each unit, I think it could work. I honestly cannot say how well it worked or not...all I can say is both guys were using them and really liked them a lot. And it seems a related approach to my own successful experiments with 'isolation sandwiches'.

If you do try them, please let us know how they work.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks Lloyd, I am in the very early stages experimenting with shelves, pucks and cones - and following your advice I have found great improvements in my system. What Lloyd shared here does not belong to the Nice-to-Have category, but to the Must-do one.

Sounds like (in addition to your PM this morning)...you are on a great track here...essentially hearing MORE of what you already like in your equipment and system already...with less vibration-related artefact. Good news! Please continue to update as you continue to isolate. Enjoy!
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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They are ready made products Lloyd. Some filters are custom sized for my bigger pieces. As far as racks go my top 3 are HRS, SRA and CMS. I went with CMS because their design is more invariant in terms of load and weight distribution. I do think they are all excellent.

I think 15kG would make the top plates on my pre and phono cave in LOL. I use 2 HRS damping plates. No room on top of the amps either because ventilation would be blocked.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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They are ready made products Lloyd. Some filters are custom sized for my bigger pieces. As far as racks go my top 3 are HRS, SRA and CMS. I went with CMS because their design is more invariant in terms of load and weight distribution. I do think they are all excellent.

I think 15kG would make the top plates on my pre and phono cave in LOL. I use 2 HRS damping plates. No room on top of the amps either because ventilation would be blocked.

Thanks...that is really great to know. I have never had the opp to try Critical Mass though I did try once many years ago. I also think SRA is excellent having heard them in Hong Kong. I use HRS a lot because the distributor here is great.

Yes, as for 15kg...gotta be careful!!! I use HRS damping plates and Artesania damping plates a lot. I have found that 1 Artesania is about equivalent to 1 long HRS double-thickness plates...but has slightly smaller dimensions being round...about 15cm diameter maybe. That is what I use on top of the Gryphon and place the 20kg brass weight on top of that...so I do not block the ventilation 'shafts' on either side of the amp.
 

analog brother

New Member
Jan 20, 2014
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i use a couple of sets of stillpoints ss in my system/s and have found that they work great with wooden shelves, but not so well with glass shelves.
anybody else make the same observation?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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i use a couple of sets of stillpoints ss in my system/s and have found that they work great with wooden shelves, but not so well with glass shelves.
anybody else make the same observation?

I am not surprised by that...glass and stainless steel instinctively feels like something that needs a little extra special attention. My suggestions are (for trial):

- Try an HRS Nimbus Coupler on top of the Ultra 5...or MAYBE underneath though I think there could be real stability issues there.

- Try a lot of elastomer damped mass damping on top...to help ensure there is not even the slightly micromovement between the stainless steel of the Stilllpoints and the glass which could be a real problem

All based on nothing more than instinct based on lots of experimentation with weights, sand, brass, steel, elastomers, el cheapo stuff, lying-around-the-house-'cause'i'm-fresh-outta-college-and-aint-got-no-money stuff as well as many years later the purpose-built stuff...Ultra 5s, HRS, Artesania and Finite Elemente...
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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I use Ultra 5's under my speakers and amps, on top of my phono stage PS exposed transformers and on top of my amps. Rack components are supported by ultra ss and the tops are damped by LP1's. I also use the LP1 on both turntables as record weights and one LP1 to damp my cantilevered arm board on the CA Master Innovation. Removing any of these devices yields a palpable sonic degradation for the components they are applied too.
 

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