Raidho speakers SPL Limited; Company admits; Egg on face of many…

puroagave

Member Sponsor
Sep 29, 2011
1,345
45
970
I'm visiting Raidho in Denmark today. Any questions that you'd want asked? Please let me know, and I'll forward them to Lars & co. followed by answers published here.

Thanks for doing this.

I received an e-mail from them the warranty is 5-yrs, presumably from the date of purchase.
Does it extend to subsequent owners?
Should US owners contact their distributor before contacting the factory?
my speakers were sold through aaudio imports the original distributor, does that matter?
 

LenWhite

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2011
424
72
375
Florida
systems.audiogon.com
I'm visiting Raidho in Denmark today. Any questions that you'd want asked? Please let me know, and I'll forward them to Lars & co. followed by answers published here.

Please convey my good wishes to Lars and Michael. I've spoken to Lars twice so far at RMAF and found him very accommodating and knowledgeable. Michael has also been very helpful through email.

I've owned the C3's since 2010 and I love them. Maybe someday I'll be lucky enough to own a pair of D3's:)

Are you going to be able to hear the C5's at the factory?
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Thanks for doing this.

I received an e-mail from them the warranty is 5-yrs, presumably from the date of purchase.
Does it extend to subsequent owners?
Should US owners contact their distributor before contacting the factory?
my speakers were sold through aaudio imports the original distributor, does that matter?

I didn't notice your question in time - different time zones :) - to be able to ask Lars directly, but my advice would be to contact Aaudio imports who can give you the details and history of your specific product. You could also contact Raidho direct at: sales@raidho.dk
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Please convey my good wishes to Lars and Michael. I've spoken to Lars twice so far at RMAF and found him very accommodating and knowledgeable. Michael has also been very helpful through email.

I've owned the C3's since 2010 and I love them. Maybe someday I'll be lucky enough to own a pair of D3's:)

Are you going to be able to hear the C5's at the factory?

Lars and Michael are two of the most friendly and passionate men that I've comed across in this industry. I've spent the day within the Raidho fascilities in Aalborg together with one of my clients, listening to the new "baby Raidho" (X-1) followed by the hole range of D-series speakers including the upgraded D3 and the flagship D5. I will publish a full report at www.perfect-sense.se within a week. I'll let you know when it's online.

Thanks for the interest and support.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,300
774
1,698
So now that Valin likes a speaker that you approve of, he's suddenly OK?

alexandre

You may be on to something, there. Don’t be surprised if you go to an audio show and see an older guy and a younger guy hugging. :)

Joking aside, I’m just trying to focus on, accentuate, and reinforce the positive, while you guys are just trying to rile me up. :)

I held off despite having such low hanging fruit – Valin including Alon’s picture in the CES write up in the latest issue. Instead, Valin could have used the space to get a picture of some cool looking speaker or provide more paragraphs of coverage for the readers to enjoy. And I am sure the Magico groupies already have their lives full Alon’s pictures all over their phones, posters on walls and doors, and even images stamped on room treatments. :)

You seem to think that I like Raidho. But that’s not really true. As a personal reality, I have come to the conclusion that I don’t like box speakers that much. I have always steered toward open designs such as Soundlab, Nola, Magnepan, and MBL, etc. It is rare that I enjoy box speakers or other varieties. When I listen to box designs, instead of the music, my mind is wandering. I'm thinking about the system, how things could be different, what else is needed, or I daydream about what has or will happen in my life, who I got to call, what I have to do, etc. That, of course, doesn't mean that they don’t sound real to you…

With the 101 (which is the speaker of my dreams) and other open designs, however, I am able to focus on the music, all other things be damned. I get into a rare state of complete focus, which occurs only when having "intimate relations", playing sports I like and I am good at, or talking to close friends. The 101 speakers get me that similar effect of engaging my whole self and providing sheer enjoyment. So I’m set for at least the next 10 years.

So it’s not that I like Raidho, but Raidho has more diverse reviewer support than Magico. Just like you wouldn’t want to put all your eggs in one basket and trust a single expert with a financial, sports, or political prediction, and you would average the responses to of the experts to get a realistic prediction, you want to average the writings of the reviews to get a realistic sense of a product.

And I don't really like ARC either. Unless it’s in a Nola system, I always thought of ARC as over-hyped and over-marketed. But Carl is a master and makes his Nola system and ARC sound DIVINE. (I’m not using the word divine lightly, and I’m using the word divine as it was used 500 years ago.)

So you misinterpreted by enthusiasm of Valin’s writing. I was actually talking about why the high end audio illusion gives us pleasure. The purpose of the Absolute Sound is to trigger that imaginative process of escapism that valin describes in the quote in my other post ... Just like a paratrooper jumping out of a plane in a military commercial would excite a certain young man or woman, or wearing a costume of a superhero can spark the imagination of a young boy. The pictures of gear and that type of writing about high end audio gives us pleasure and creates yearning for more pleasure, as we project ourselves into that listening session , like the potential recruit projects himself into the paratrooper commercial. This intensifies our desire with improvement as we strive for the “real” feeling. This type of entertainment makes us feel good and takes life from mediocre to great. It may be a fantasy, as the perfect system doesn't exist, but that fantasy makes for a better life.

Coming back to Valin, his excessive cheerleading has cost him and his magazine’s reputation. I just checked out his latest blog. In the comments section, there is a much discussion about his personal dealings as there is about the gear he is writing about. And it’s been like that for the last few years. What a shame.

Yes, Valin can still be an excellent writer. I don’t know too many reviewers that can discuss in audio words that Valin can. And Valin is still capable of writing great reviews, which are an escape from the current, boring, deficient system. But in retrospect, HP should have never hired him.

Imagine if Fremer hired someone to help with Analog Planet. And when Fremer gets sick, this guy goes on to trash analog in favor of digital, constantly and incessantly, for 4 or 5 years. I imagine valin wants to shape people’s taste, but he has failed to get his readers to like “transparency to source speakers”. People’s tastes are too entrenched, having been shaped through years upon years. He may be able to reinforce people’s tastes, but he cannot shape them. He may have an easier time converting hard core heavy metal fans to love Kenny G.

I don’t want to start calling other people’s babies ugly as Valin has done with Nola and Scaena. The reality is that most people acquire the sound they enjoy not from rationalistic arguments or purist manifestos but instead from experiences and associations. According to Valin himself, Magicos are not “absolute sound type speakers”; rather, they are “transparency to source” speakers. I could probably be safe in saying that if lAon brought his speakers to HP’s house, he would throw both him and the speakers into the Long Island Sound. Not that there’s anything wrong with Magico, but because Magico sonic signature just doesn't resonate with HP’s vision. And add to that the fact that most Magicos, especially the Q5, are a lot harder to drive than a YG, Wilson, or Tad, it makes it very difficult to tailor it to one’s taste.


Whereas we can like whatever we want, the absolute sound has a mission. And "transparency to source" gear violates that original mission. Now I understand that this is a business and it’s good to mix things up, but only once in a life. A country rock song is fine on the rock radio station once in a while, but if you turn it into a country and western radio station, listeners will be pissed! And in addition, the unrestrained cheer leading and excessive promotion of something that just doesn't fit the mission. If valin doesn't subscribe to that mission and wants to fantasize about perfect measurements and technology for the sake of technology, he should go. HP couldn't take it and left the magazine he started.

And there are thousands who feel this way. Browse Valin’s latest blog, and there are more posts about his travels, dealings, and personal business than about the speakers he is writing about. A real shame. And despite the uproar, he still publishes that picture of alon.... Being stubborn and being foolishly consistent don't always help one's situation... It may feel good to publish alon’s picture, but what does that add to his legacy?

Coming back to topic, this speaker by the Raidho brand reminds me of a gorgeous bathroom I own by an Italian firm. The pictures and ads were all over design magazines and won multiple awards, and we fell in love with it when we saw it. But those who awarded the prizes never checked the usability. I didn't do enough homework, and as a result I can’t plunge the damn sink, so I have to periodically use lye to clean it out. In the end, Usage is the critical test of a test of product. Usage is where the product stands on its own feet, unsupported by marketing BS, awards by the clueless, or cheerleading. All that matters is how the product performs. The more assertive owners got rid of the bad speakers, while others are stuck.

Gotta go and hear some live music now!
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
Caeser writes: Imagine if Fremer hired someone to help with Analog Planet. And when Fremer gets sick, this guy goes on to trash analog in favor of digital, constantly and incessantly, for 4 or 5 years. I imagine valin wants to shape people’s taste, but he has failed to get his readers to like “transparency to source speakers”.

Huh? I think your timeline is off by 20 years.
 

mbovaird

Banned
Jan 5, 2013
146
1
0
Caesar - interesting post. I agree with you for the most part about Valin. I have said many times, I just don't understand what that guy hears. Read his show reports. They not only contradict my own (for the most part), but they often contradict some of the other writers at TAS. I do agree with him on the greatness of Raidho speakers....but many other things....I have no idea what he hears (or doesn't hear).

I often wonder how often these guys go have their hearing checked. That's one aspect we rarely discuss. If our ears are the ultimate measuring tool, just how good are they? Are older amp and speaker designers building "brighter" sounding gear because their own hearing is incapable of hearing the higher frequencies? Are they building in compensations for their own physical deficiencies? Just saying....we rarely discuss these things.
 
Last edited:

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
If welfare recipients are being forced to undergo drug testing we should demand that audio "journalists" like JV undergo hearing tests. I'm betting old Jon isn't good for anything close to 15Khz..
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Caesar - interesting post. I agree with you for the most part about Valin. I have said many times, I just don't understand what that guy hears. Read his show reports. They not only contradict my own (for the most part), but they often contradict some of the other writers at TAS. I do agree with him on the greatness of Raidho speakers....but many other things....I have no idea what he hears (or doesn't hear).

So when JV's hearing/reviews are in agreement with your hearing/findings everything is OK. When he doesn't agree with you then he is deafer than a post. Can you really have it both ways?
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
If welfare recipients are being forced to undergo drug testing we should demand that audio "journalists" like JV undergo hearing tests. I'm betting old Jon isn't good for anything close to 15Khz..


To my knowledge, welfare recipients are not required to undergo drug testing. Several states have tried to pass laws requiring drug testing, but they always get beat down. I have a hunch there are more than a few people here who couldn't hear 15kHz.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
1,231
4
0
Speaking about our "ears" how about accurate measurements for all tube amps? I had an excellent world class amp that had ZERO info over 12K. What then? Would this amp be disqualified?
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
414
1,210
Northern NY
To my knowledge, welfare recipients are not required to undergo drug testing. Several states have tried to pass laws requiring drug testing, but they always get beat down. I have a hunch there are more than a few people here who couldn't hear 15kHz.

Probably most over 40 can't really hear 15k. I doubt anyone over 50.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,300
774
1,698
Huh? I think your timeline is off by 20 years.

Didn't Valin originally start to work for HP about 20 years ago, but 4 or 5 years after HP sold TAS Valin came out with his absolute sound, transaparency to source, and as you like it (colored product) categories?

I may be off on the exact dates, but I was just trying to make a convey a point.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,300
774
1,698
Caesar - interesting post. I agree with you for the most part about Valin. I have said many times, I just don't understand what that guy hears. Read his show reports. They not only contradict my own (for the most part), but they often contradict some of the other writers at TAS. I do agree with him on the greatness of Raidho speakers....but many other things....I have no idea what he hears (or doesn't hear).

I often wonder how often these guys go have their hearing checked. That's one aspect we rarely discuss. If our ears are the ultimate measuring tool, just how good are they? Are older amp and speaker designers building "brighter" sounding gear because their own hearing is incapable of hearing the higher frequencies? Are they building in compensations for their own physical deficiencies? Just saying....we rarely discuss these things.

HI Mike,
Sorry for the relatively late reply; I was travelling. I have no doubt Raidho’s are great speakers. I will try to hear them again, when I have a chance. And like I said before, a broader spectrum of the reviewers liking them than say, a more niche taste such as Magico, shows they appeal to more folks’ references.

But I am not sure I agree with you about Valin or other "older" guys “being deaf” makes a difference in deciphering sonic signatures. Despite of what many say, I think our senses, being a product of many years of evolution, are just fine for us to live a great life and appreciate this great hobby. Repeatedly hearing something via our senses forms our references.

Magico, as always, can be used as a great example to illustrate this point (please note that this is just an example, I’m not trying to bash the brand) :

Five or 6 years ago, Magico, their friends in the media, and their evangelizing fans made a wrong assumption. They thought that long time audiophiles after hearing their product, which they consider to be “flat and pure” – and matches their references, will be pleasurable to everyone. All folks had to do is hear a Magico speaker and they would be immediately won over to their brand.

Obviously it was an error because that is not the case in the way our brain is wired. Instead, we, humans, prefer things that are familiar to us. If you have been going to a small mom and pop jazz bar for the last 30 years, the acoustic signature of that joint is a big part of your reference and what sounds right to you. The pattern recognition and familiarity areas of the brain are activate when one is listening to music. So we have learned to focus on certain tones, pitches, melodies, and harmonic structures over others. In a nutshell, we have learned to focus on some aspects of the sound, those that are familiar to us, while ignoring others. Otherwise, our ancestors would have gotten confused by the various sounds coming from their environment, and would have been easier lunch to the roaming predator. For that same reason, it is why at an audio show some people sit glued, with their jaw agape and the hairs on the back of neck standing up, while others walk out, shaking their head and wondering of what the other "idiots" are so thrilled about when the system sounds "flat" and "dead" to them. And that’s why when listening to a Magico, after constant media bombardment telling us it is the “best”, is such a disappointing and unfulfilling experience to many of us, while being an uplifting experience to their fans.

Bottom line is that our brains are designed to prefer auditory patterns that we have grown accustomed to. This holds for Valin as well as for the rest of us.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
Magico, as always, can be used as a great example to illustrate this point (please note that this is just an example, I’m not trying to bash the brand) :

Five or 6 years ago, Magico, their friends in the media, and their evangelizing fans made a wrong assumption. They thought that long time audiophiles after hearing their product, which they consider to be “flat and pure” – and matches their references, will be pleasurable to everyone. All folks had to do is hear a Magico speaker and they would be immediately won over to their brand.

I read your post with much interest, but I must say that now I'm not sure what you're saying. I did not like the Magicos at all, at least not until I had the opportunity to spend time with them. My experience with the brand was completely opposite to the one you describe. Yes, we get used to certain things, but I can tell you, that can be easily changed. Just like understanding wine, you need to develop your palate.
There is NO real beauty in coloration, even the one you are accustom to. You just need to realize that you are hearing it, so you can actually move forward in your journey to audio nirvana.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,300
774
1,698
I read your post with much interest, but I must say that now I'm not sure what you're saying. I did not like the Magicos at all, at least not until I had the opportunity to spend time with them. My experience with the brand was completely opposite to the one you describe. Yes, we get used to certain things, but I can tell you, that can be easily changed. Just like understanding wine, you need to develop your palate.
There is NO real beauty in coloration, even the one you are accustom to. You just need to realize that you are hearing it, so you can actually move forward in your journey to audio nirvana.

I agree with you that we can adjust to change, and actually are always adjusting to change. Check out the 3rd paragraph here, where I talk about it specifically:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-hear-And-not!&p=225727&viewfull=1#post225727

But why change for the sake of change? I love Korean/ Korean-American food, but have never learned to like kimchi, and have no desire to work on myself to like it as life is too short. I have also spent many hours with Magicos, first because of the “best” hype, and then as an intellectual exercise to try to figure out why I don’t like them, because, as they say, you learn more when things go wrong than when they are hunky dory. And after all the time I spent with them, they still do not appeal to me on an emotional level, whereas my 101’s grab me after a fraction of a second. So change doesn’t always happen easily.

As for Magico, I am not sure I, or many other non-owners, agree they are as colorless as Magico or their people claim. It’s a box speaker, and it sounds very different from an open speaker like a Nola, MBL, or a stat. It also has a voicing that is geared to upper midrange / lower treble. Personally, I can't stand it, but most guys I know who do own Magico try to cover it up with warmer amps like Balabo , Gryphon, VTL, etc., but it is still there.

I am sincerely thrilled you like them. If you have something in your life that you really love, enjoy, and can forget all your problems, it is truly a great thing. Fortunately, there is a flavor for anyone who is interested in this hobby. But anyways, we are drifting way off topic. We should start a new thread to discuss Magico.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
Caesar,
As someone new to the Magico brand I have recently read just about anything ever written on Magico on-line and then some. Your statements are a bit strange. I don't know of anyone who uses Magico with VTL or Gryphon (I use Spectral, and many more here in Italy do as well, not a warm amp by any standard). MBL are notoriously grungy and colored. The line is not "geared to upper midrange / lower treble" (of course compare to the MBL +10db bass output they can be consider lean). I have not issues with people liking whatever they like, but I don’t follow your reasoning and do not understand why you need to have any...
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,700
2,790
Portugal
Just to tell people that I have read at Audioshark that the first few users who got their fixed Raidho D3 seem really happy - they got a much improved speaker able to play "at continuous 100 dB" (just quoting a post). Good news for the high-end community.
 

Alpinist

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2014
530
143
280
USA
As the owner of "the audio shark" and a previous owner of the Raidho D1's and Raidho D3's, I think I can shed some light on the situation. First, I owned the Raidho D1's and just loved what they did and couldn't wait to move up to the Raidho D3's. I barely broke in the D1's before I moved on to the D3's. When my D3's arrived, break in was an absolute bear, but I knew what these speakers were capable of. After several hundred hours, they really started to improve. Over the coming weeks of listening, I found two problems cropped up with the D3's. First, was a mid-bass "bump" between 40-140hz. Second, woofer popping occurred at 95db (approx)....but there was no way to gauge when the woofers would pop. It could happen at 90db with me playing Big Head Todd's - 100 Years of Robert Johnson, or not at all at 100db with Mozart. But generally speaking, it occurred at around 95db. As a side, the mid bass bump, not the popping was the number one concern for Raidho D3 owners on my site.

The mid-bass issue wasn't as much of a concern for me. I found some work arounds (granite base, port plugs) that all seemed to help...a little. But ultimately, I became very frustrated with the popping, so, working with the cooperation of my dealer, I moved on....

Now, we can look at this situation and see it as a failure, egg on the face, what have you.....or we can look at this and see it as a small company determined to do the right thing. Just because Ferrari has a recall on the 458 does not mean that Ferrari makes bad cars or that Ferrari is a bad company (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-458-italia-recall).

For current D3 owners, I am delighted that Raidho has stepped up to the plate, created a fix which is much more involved than one might think (details to follow) and the company is covering 95% of the cost. Yes, they have asked owners to pay for one way shipping costs. Given the costs the company will face for the fix and return the D3's to their customers, I think this is more than fair.

It's easy to sit there and say "yeah, they should pay for everything!" - but in reality, Raidho is a small company and the fact that they have admitted the problems, created a solution for both problems, speaks volumes (no pun intended). :) Raidho could have easily said, "Tada! We now have the Raidho D3.1" and screw all those people who were early adopters of their diamond woofer technology. But no, they didn't. They engineered a not-inexpensive fix and offered it to all Raidho D3 owners for free (except for one way shipping costs).

I will obviously withhold final judgement until I actually hear a pair of upgraded/modified/fixed D3's. But as someone who was one of the most vocal about the disappointments of my D3's - before and after selling them, I applaud Raidho for taking it on the chin, getting back up, stepping up to the plate and creating a real fix for existing D3 customers (and not a band-aid fix). There are many ways they could have handled this situation and in my opinion, they did the honorable thing.

After reading through this entire thread, I was wondering if the problem with the mid-bass "bump" was rectified with the updated version of the Raidho D3?

Thanks,
Ken
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
5,156
2,819
1,898
Encino, CA
JV remarks about the 60-80hz region in the D5 review.

when will Stereophile or Soundstage get a pair so we can see measurements?
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing