ET5: How Good? Sound?

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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I've used a Naim amps/preamps for a LONG time but recent events (new cart.) have finally proven to me that my preamp (and to some extent my room) is a source of frustration. So, because of their age and the cost of rebuilding (every 10 yrs. or so) I figure maybe now is the time to delve into something else.

I use a ARC PH7 phono with my Naim gear and have a 2nd sys. of a CJ MV60SE and Audible Illusions M3A, so I am familar with tubed gear. Currently, my Naim gear is out of commission and brought up my alt system. It sounds better in the some of the areas my Naim preamp is accentuating.

So, having a CJ amp and having heard some other CJ gear (nothing really recent) I at least am familar with what CJ used to sound like. I read that may people like the ET5, despite the long breaking in period. I have read some audio reviews but am really looking for more about what it actually "sounds" like. I have heard the Aesthetix Calypso at a dealer but it was with ARC amps a long time ago. I have heard a First Sound preamp and of course my M3A.

How neutral are the newer CJ preamps? How well does the ET5 respond to NOS tubes? I'd like to get more midrange than I have but not where it slows things down or disturbs bass definition. I'd appreciate any comparisons to older CJ preamps. My plan would be to pair it with a Premier 350, if I can ever find one! Unfortunately, I have no way to try at home w/o buying first so any information would be helpful.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Grooves,

Hopefully others can chime in on the CT5...what I will speak to is your question about how neutral latest generation CJ preamps are compared to their historical preamps. Having owned CJ preamps consecutively for 14 years, I can say that I have always liked CJ because midrange magic was always there...but what I have enjoyed most about the evolution of CJ...is that although I feel they struggled to eliminate the 'golden hue' in the pursuit of maintaining tonal purity and magic while also eliminating golden syrup (particularly with the ACT 2 which I owned)...I feel like they finally found it in the CJ GAT...where the ET5 and ET3 are its descendants.

I have listened to ARC 3, 5, 5SE and also ACT2, Shindo...most in my system for some time...and I can say that relative to these at least, I find the CJ GAT to be extremely linear, transparent and also grainless...and it still manages to take a violin string and let it soar at volume without adding any mechanical screeching.

I hope that perhaps Myles or others who have heard the ET5 can speak directly to your question, but I really, really love the CJ GAT which again is its sire.

As for CJ350, I have heard it as well...have you? Just curious.

Good luck.
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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Hi LL21,
Thanks for the input. I hav enot heard athe CJ350, but only read hat others have said. I can't recall anyone who said it wasn't anyhting but good! I think the thing that has m ethe most intrigued is that some have said it sounds just as good at low volume than higher. While I don't necessarily need the large power of this amp, I would love to hear what it would do for symphonic music, creshendo's and all. It seems to be by most accounts, the best SS amp Cj has made.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi LL21,
Thanks for the input. I hav enot heard athe CJ350, but only read hat others have said. I can't recall anyone who said it wasn't anyhting but good! I think the thing that has m ethe most intrigued is that some have said it sounds just as good at low volume than higher. While I don't necessarily need the large power of this amp, I would love to hear what it would do for symphonic music, creshendo's and all. It seems to be by most accounts, the best SS amp Cj has made.
Hi Grooves. I have also heard it is the best SS amp they made. I have only heard the 2250 and the 350 myself. It is an excellent amp...very, very powerful. Not quite the immovable bedrock of a Boulder perhaps...but exceptionally powerful and defined in the bass. I found the mid and treble lithe and smooth...but relative to cj's best tubes...not as liquid, nuanced...more a linear flatter straight up presentation. It is a memorable piece for sure...my recommendation would be to pair it with one of the more supple, nuanced CJ tubed preamps if you wish to get that extra bit of fluidity. Since it seems you are considering et5 I think could be quite a combination. Good luck.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Hi LL21,
Thanks for the input. I hav enot heard athe CJ350, but only read hat others have said. I can't recall anyone who said it wasn't anyhting but good! I think the thing that has m ethe most intrigued is that some have said it sounds just as good at low volume than higher. While I don't necessarily need the large power of this amp, I would love to hear what it would do for symphonic music, creshendo's and all. It seems to be by most accounts, the best SS amp Cj has made.

The more dynamic listening session I remember in my room was the Mercury Living Presence of Tchaikovsky 1812 conducted by Doratti played through Wilson X2 series 2 using a cj 350. The full orchestra, the canons and the bells filled the whole house without any compression ...

Martin Colloms however reported some trouble at high levels with speakers having an extremely low impedance in the bass.

The CT5 or the ACT2 series 2 are great matches with the cj 350.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Hi Grooves

I also used to have a full active Naim 52/135's/SBL system. great system but ultimately got fatiguing so went almost the other direction with cj :D


the cj preamps are wonderful. the new ET5/GAT are a little more neutral than the prem 16/17ART series but still have enough tube bloom. the CT5/ACT2 with 6h30 is a little whiter in sound than the GAT/ETS with perhaps slightly more up and go in the bass dynamics?

try a cj pre amp with the Naim amps before you think about prem350- would be very interesting

cheers
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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XV-1,
It's always good to hear from someone who has/had Naim gear. I've have had a love-hate with my 52 for a while. I had great results with a Benz LP when I added a Graham P-II-Sup., then I had to go and get a LP-S instead of another LP when my cart. when postal. I knew I was rolling the dice a bit based upon what people said about the LP-S being different, but I either read things wrong or they were a bit light on their comparison, which is what I think. I'm not sure if I can get back to an LP w/o a ton of effort (and a big loss in $). The 250.2 is a great amp. and I would consider keeping it to try with a tubed preamp. Unfortunately, there aren't too many who have tried due to Naim's (overly?) cautionary description of issues. I guess their amps don't appreciate any ancillary HF's coming into them above 20kHz. I may still give it a go. Do you know anyone who had success? Other than a ET5, I have been considering a 16LS/2 or a 17LS/2. The (4) tubes of a 17LS/2 would be okay but (6) is a bit more than I want to deal with since my PH7 uses (4) 6922's. They get expensive after a while if you have to use them to get the sound you want. It seems more people liked the 16LS/2 over the 17LS/2. Other choices non-CJ would be the Aesthetix Calypso or the Cary SLP05. If all I needed to add was a preamp it wouldn't be such a major deal and I'd be willing to try a few. But to add an amp on top of it is a much bigger undertaking.
 

mep

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The Cary SL98 is a kick-ass line stage.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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XV-1,
It's always good to hear from someone who has/had Naim gear. I've have had a love-hate with my 52 for a while. I had great results with a Benz LP when I added a Graham P-II-Sup., then I had to go and get a LP-S instead of another LP when my cart. when postal. I knew I was rolling the dice a bit based upon what people said about the LP-S being different, but I either read things wrong or they were a bit light on their comparison, which is what I think. I'm not sure if I can get back to an LP w/o a ton of effort (and a big loss in $). The 250.2 is a great amp. and I would consider keeping it to try with a tubed preamp. Unfortunately, there aren't too many who have tried due to Naim's (overly?) cautionary description of issues. I guess their amps don't appreciate any ancillary HF's coming into them above 20kHz. I may still give it a go. Do you know anyone who had success? Other than a ET5, I have been considering a 16LS/2 or a 17LS/2. The (4) tubes of a 17LS/2 would be okay but (6) is a bit more than I want to deal with since my PH7 uses (4) 6922's. They get expensive after a while if you have to use them to get the sound you want. It seems more people liked the 16LS/2 over the 17LS/2. Other choices non-CJ would be the Aesthetix Calypso or the Cary SLP05. If all I needed to add was a preamp it wouldn't be such a major deal and I'd be willing to try a few. But to add an amp on top of it is a much bigger undertaking.

I really wish I was rich, as i would love to have my Naim system to swap in and out, but you can't keep everything.

the cj prem16 is an awesome pre amp - one of my fav's even now. Slightly tighter bass than even the ART preamp. LS2 is probably the way to go as a little more neutral. the prem16 is certainly the much better option than the prem17, mainly due to the extra dynamics and dynamic shadings the prem16 has. I would think cming from the Naim 52, the prem17 would be a little too reserved.

The Cary SL98 is a nice pre as well. maybe a bit too much tube goodness. Have not heard the SLP05 but a couple of buddies with them, but used in horn systems. Can't comment on the Aesthetix, although I have heard their phono stages - very nice sounding but too noisy.

can't say I know anybody using non Naim pre amp with Naim amps, except perhaps Martin Collumns the reviewer who had good success with his cj ART and Naim 250 he uses as a reference.

What have you got to lose? Go for it and use it with the MV60 if it does not gel with the 250.

I am envious of your upcoming fun :)

cheers
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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I found and sent Martin an email re: what preamp he was using with his Naim amp and he mentioned using a auto-former. When I mentioned I was looking to use a tube preamp his reply mentions that a because the 250 has a slightly high input sensitivity and a lower than average input impedence suggests tube/FET preamps are less suitable.
 

bgiliberti

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Mar 28, 2012
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I found and sent Martin an email re: what preamp he was using with his Naim amp and he mentioned using a auto-former. When I mentioned I was looking to use a tube preamp his reply mentions that a because the 250 has a slightly high input sensitivity and a lower than average input impedence suggests tube/FET preamps are less suitable.
Why would that be. The reason I ask is that have a CJ ClassicSE, which has a tube/FET design. I was not aware that created issues with Naim amps.
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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Ya got me! My understanding of the Naim-non-Naim compatability is limited(!!) but from the basics I found the input impedence of a 250.2 is around 18K and the Naim preamps utilize a ultrasonic filter above 40kHz.

He also said that if it seems to be working well don't worry.
 

thedudeabides

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Jan 16, 2011
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Hi Grooves,

Can't comment on the Naim gear but I have the Pass Labs X250.5 and recently purchased the CJET5. Previously owned the CJ Premier 18 LS. Nice pre and great bang for the buck but the ET5 clearly outperforms the CJ SS pre in liquidity, soundstaging, and headroom. No more "crunching" on piano transients and voices, amongst other things, have a dimensionality and sense of righteousness that is quite intoxicating.

Very nice synergy in my system. Am a happy camper.

Oh yes, be advised that if you buy new, the teflon capacitors take a minimum of 400 hours to break in. IMHO, quite unimpressive out of the box.

And you would be wise to experiment with different tubes. The EAT EC88 clearly outperformed the stock tube in my system.

GG
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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Pacific Northwest
Hey Dude...
If I recollect correctly, the PR18 is all SS preamp? I heard it was the last pre to have the classic CJ sound, warm and inviting. Would that be the case? So, how would you say the ET5 sounds tonally vs the PR18? Do you plan on doing any other tube/s in it?
 

thedudeabides

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Jan 16, 2011
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The 18LS is great pre IMHO and yes it is SS. Very high on the value / dollar continuum.

The ET5 is a leap in sophistication and finesse. A major step up in dimensionality and imaging specificity. More refined top and midrange especially in the "body" category. Mid - bass / bass? I prefer the 18.

Having said that, the cost / performance ratio difference really surprised me within the context of used prices. $1,300 vs $6,500.

I still have my 18. Perfect condition. If interested, please PM.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

GG
 

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