TT advice please

willie garvin · Aug 30, 2010

Hi,

I have asked this same question on another HiFi forum, but I'd like some 'fresh' advice from new faces, please.

I am wanting to buy a TT & as is the norm for me I'd like to get a 'used' one as in general you can get more for your money, as the original buyer has taken the biggest hit.

Now I know that this question will have been asked before, as it will again, but I'm looking to spend up to £500/$772/€610, but I don't want to buy something & then be told you need to upgrade the tonearm or platter, etc.

I am not bothered if it's vintage, because there are certain vintage items that still cut the mustard today!!

So thanks in advance for your help.

willie G

DWR · Aug 30, 2010

Hi Willie, well looking over the used items on audiogon I saw 2 units that fall into your price range that looked like real nice deals to me. 1) A Thorens TD 160 with what the seller is advertising "Bold Restoration" it looks very nice at $695, and 2) A Rega Planar3 w/RB300 tonearm, this one is advertised as new in the box never assembled for $700.

DaveSpectral · Aug 30, 2010

willie garvin said:
Hi,

I have asked this same question on another HiFi forum, but I'd like some 'fresh' advice from new faces, please.

I am wanting to buy a TT & as is the norm for me I'd like to get a 'used' one as in general you can get more for your money, as the original buyer has taken the biggest hit.

Now I know that this question will have been asked before, as it will again, but I'm looking to spend up to £500/$772/€610, but I don't want to buy something & then be told you need to upgrade the tonearm or platter, etc.

Hi Willie.

I've come full circle so to speak myself. I am now back to using Direct drive. Does your price include phono cartridge? If it does, you could get a used Technics 1200 or 1210 series for about $250-$350. U.S. They are all over the place for that price. Just make sure it comes from an audiophile, and not from a DJ environment. That motor in that TT is what the powers that be use to cut record masters. Ignore the criticisms about it. If the criticisms were true, we would here those criticisms in every L.P. that was cut in the last 25 years. It will give you the most accurate speed possible. That would leave you about $350 for a cartridge. If your price does not include cartridge, I bought a 1210M5G with OFC wiring in the arm, brand new, for about $540. It is a BEAUTIFUL unit.

OTOH, If you are totally sold on belt drive, I would look at used Clearaudio stuff such as the Emotion. They seem to be the quietest ones out there in the belt category, and they are beautiful! The most helpful thing that I would say is to take your time, be patient, and learn what is out there first. So many of them are beautiful at that price, that might influence your decision also. Try to get one with a return policy, and make sure the seller knows how to pack it properly! Many don't.

DWR · Aug 30, 2010

Willie be very wary of buying a cartridge used. While I totally agree on buying much of the equipment we use previously owned a cartridge is one that I will absolutely not buy used, its just way to big of a "crap shoot" IMO.

Johnny Vinyl · Aug 30, 2010

Here is my $0.02! Whatever you decide on try to buy local..NOT SHIPPED. Go for an audition and see if it meets your approvaL. A shipped unit is a crapshoot, unless you know the seller and have 100% faith in his ability to package everything properly.

John

willie garvin · Aug 30, 2010

Hi,

Extremely grateful for so much helpful advice, it's truly appreciated.

I should point out that I live in the Uk & AudiogoN is an American site & from past experience the import duties & postal charges amount to something like 23% of the cost of the item you are buying, an extra expense that seems to outway the benefits.

Now I have been looking & researching & taking advice from many quarters & I keep coming back to several makes, Technics, Systemdek, Rega, Thorens & for some unknown reason Mitchell!! I have even considered a Yamaha PF 80 as it just has that something about it!!

I am totally confused about the Technics TT's because, like most things HiFi, there are several arguements for & against, but I was drawn towards a Technics 1210M5G the other day but backed away because of all the hype about them being decks for DJ's.

But again I am grateful for the advice re listening, packaging & not to buy 'used' cartridges, something to which I hadn't given enough thought to.

There is also the nagging doubt that vinyl will be as I remember it from being a teenager, all crackles, hisses & pops, yes I know it's the vinyl that makes these noises, but I'm so used to the quiteness of 'digital'.

If there are & there will be any holes in this reply PLEASE do point them out to me, like I've already said I'm here to learn.

Thank you once again for so many replies, truly gobsmacked as they say here in Yorkshire.

willie G

MylesBAstor · Aug 30, 2010

willie garvin said:
Hi,

Extremely grateful for so much helpful advice, it's truly appreciated.

I should point out that I live in the Uk & AudiogoN is an American site & from past experience the import duties & postal charges amount to something like 23% of the cost of the item you are buying, an extra expense that seems to outway the benefits.

Now I have been looking & researching & taking advice from many quarters & I keep coming back to several makes, Technics, Systemdek, Rega, Thorens & for some unknown reason Mitchell!! I have even considered a Yamaha PF 80 as it just has that something about it!!

I am totally confused about the Technics TT's because, like most things HiFi, there are several arguements for & against, but I was drawn towards a Technics 1210M5G the other day but backed away because of all the hype about them being decks for DJ's.

But again I am grateful for the advice re listening, packaging & not to buy 'used' cartridges, something to which I hadn't given enough thought to.

There is also the nagging doubt that vinyl will be as I remember it from being a teenager, all crackles, hisses & pops, yes I know it's the vinyl that makes these noises, but I'm so used to the quiteness of 'digital'.

If there are & there will be any holes in this reply PLEASE do point them out to me, like I've already said I'm here to learn.

Thank you once again for so many replies, truly gobsmacked as they say here in Yorkshire.

willie G

Willie,

I'd also add to your list the entry level Avid. Being it's made in the UK, it might well be cheaper than it's over here. Otherwise, the Rega, Thorens, Clearaudio (?) might be good buys. (I was never a big fan of the Systemdek.)

microstrip · Aug 30, 2010

If you are from the UK look for an old used XERXES with separate power supply. I bought one from ebay UK many years ago and it is still performing as first day (with a new belt surely). It is one of the best sounding turntables coming from the UK.

vinylphilemag · Aug 31, 2010

willie garvin said:
There is also the nagging doubt that vinyl will be as I remember it from being a teenager, all crackles, hisses & pops, yes I know it's the vinyl that makes these noises, but I'm so used to the quiteness of 'digital'.

Except for the odd pressing issue, the only records that are as noisy as you describe are those that have been abused (or at best, badly treated). Look after your records well, and their surfaces will be as silent in years to come as the day you bought them. (I have records that are literally decades old that fit this description.)

JackD201 · Aug 31, 2010

Aside from my main TW AC-3 I also have 2 SL1210 M5Gs.

When in DJ mode (slipmats + Ortofon Pro S) well, let me just say they are great for getting people to shake their behinds and get their appendages flailing. Not very good at nuance though. I do however occasionally use them for more "serious" listening where while delicacy and nuance is still not at par with my main table, I've found that I can get quite a lot out of that platform with two simple modifications.

First is to replace the slipmats with a rubber mat made by a DIYer who does not want to say what rubber he used. Anyhow I imagine any smooth non-secreting soft rubber mat will be better than the slipmats SLs are shipped with. Second is to use an MM cart designed more for listening than dancing.

I took the cue from KAB and simply switch the PRO S or Nightclub Stylus with that of the Ortofon OM40. Recalibrate the VTA and VTF and presto! Like a beautiful woman in gym clothes changing into her favorite little black dress.

soundofvoid · Sep 17, 2010

My advice:find a second hand DENON DP-59L or DP-72L (preferably with the straight carbon fiber tonearm).They are workhorses and true high end turntables in many aspects.Buy a good cartridge (the best you can afford)!(Tip:throw away the wooden bottom of the chassis and replace it with a solid aluminum plate.Use nice spikes and cups and you'll never look back!)
And when you're ready:buy a modestly priced second hand phono stage! They are at 95% better than the ones found in average intergraded amps.

willie garvin · Nov 5, 2010

Hi,

It's been a while since I asked for the advice regarding a TT & I've thought long & hard about it.

Anyway after lots of various advice from this & another forum & really asking myself why I want a TT, I bought one!!

It's a Systemdek IIX, in black & it came with a Linn Basik Plus tonearm & a Linn K5 cartridge.

Some of you might gasp, but I'll explain why I've gone this route.

I've been sat here thinking that I needed to spend hundreds, if not thousands on a TT & then I had a re think. I asked myself what would happen

if having spent a LOT of money it turned out I didn't like vinyl, it would be money wasted!!

Having decided on this I read as much as I could about TT's & got my choice down to a few makes of TT, these included Thorens, Dual, Technics, Ariston & Systemdek. Having bid for & lost on several TT's on Ebay I realised that there was a HUGE demand for TT's out there in the big bad world. But I was successful on my bid for this Systemdek IIX & my vinyl journey starts here!!

It must be 40+ years since I last played any vinyl on a TT of mine, so at this moment in time I'm like a kid with a new toy!!

I'm going to have to use my Nad 3140 as my phono amp until I decide if vinyls for me or not & then the hunt for a phono amp starts!!!!

The Systemdek only arrived 3 days ago & as of yet I haven't tried it out, shame on me I know.

I would like to ask your opinion on this TT, good or bad, I can take it on the chin, I think!

But I'm already wanting to see if I can upgrade the tonearm, but that would mean a new armboard & I don't know where to buy such
a thing or if you can buy one or not. So any advice re armboards is more than welcome & I'd like to think it can be changed.

I've fallen in love with Origin Live Silver tonearms & I'm wondering if this would be possible to fit to this TT, once again advice & help here please.

As well as this I'd like to replace the mains cable & the tonearm cable with much better stuff & all this is racing through my head & I haven't even found out if I like vinyl yet, it's a CRAZY world is HiFi.

So once again thanks for all your advice re TT's & everything.

I've also realised that I haven'ta clue as to which cartridge I should need/require & whether the one that came with the deck is ok for the moment.

Cheers,

willie G

naturephoto1 · Nov 5, 2010

Hi Willie,

I will let others comment more regarding the Systemdeck turntable but they did have a good reputation. I think that you had commented regarding the Origin Live Silver Tonearms in another thread. Yes they are quite good and a step up from the stock and upgraded Rega Tonearms and the less expensive Origin Live OEM Rega arms that they sell themselves. I should have mentioned the OL turntables as well since you are in the UK. Again though, it may be worth contacting Mark Baker of OL either by phone or e-mail. He has been quite generous to many of us in the past and is really quite helpful and knowledgeable.

Rich

flez007 · Nov 5, 2010

I am big on the AR table, I have seen many listed at AGON lately. The Thorens route is also a safe one IMO.

vinylphilemag · Nov 5, 2010

Hi Willie,

It's been years since I last heard it, but one of my friends had a Systemdek IIX. From what I remember, it was quite a competent performer, so I think you'll enjoy it!

WullieD20 · Dec 10, 2010

willie garvin said:
Hi,
It's been a while since I asked for the advice regarding a TT & I've thought long & hard about it.
It's a Systemdek IIX, in black & it came with a Linn Basik Plus tonearm & a Linn K5 cartridge.
I'm going to have to use my Nad 3140 as my phono amp until I decide if vinyls for me or not & then the hunt for a phono amp starts!!!!

I would like to ask you're opinion on this TT, good or bad, I can take it on the chin, I think!

But I'm already wanting to see if I can upgrade the tonearm, but that would mean a new armboard & I don't know where to buy such a thing or if you can buy one or not. So any advice re armboards is more than welcome & I'd like to think it can be changed.

I've also realised that I haven't a clue as to which cartridge I should need/require & whether the one that came with the deck is ok for the moment.
Cheers, willie G

Hi Willie,

Have you had a look in The Crossover Network ? This is a UK forum with quite few members who have a lot of knowledge on the TT and kit you have described, and even have direct contact with the Dunlop Brothers, who's father was responsible for your TT, and now produce todays Systemdek.

Johnnie of Audio Origami fame is also a member and I'm sure there are a host of individuals who can advise you appropriately . . . .

Regards,

W.

willie garvin · Sep 5, 2011

Hi,

It's been a while since I've been here, I've been busy in all sorts of areas & I've been adding to my hifi equipment & listening to music.

I've fitted a Benz Micro Silver cartridge to my Systemdek IIx TT, Linn Basik Plus tonearm & I'm happy with the sound.

Recently I bought a Technics SL1210 Mk 2 TT & before that I bought an almost mint Pioneer PL-640 TT from a carboot sale here in the UK.

I also bought a DPA DSP 200S phono stage & added to that I've been buying vinyl at every opportunity & to be honest vinyl is growing on me..........................a complete surprise to me.

So that's me up to date...................will be back sooner than later.

willie G

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