The source is in the speaker!

DaveyF · Feb 13, 2014

Linn have come out with a new speaker that my friends on the other side of the pond say is a game changer...the Exakt!

http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/how-it-works

and: http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/what-it-can-do

An interesting take on the Active approach or maybe something else.

Is this the new wave in high-end reproduction??

esldude · Feb 13, 2014

I don't know. Keep expecting this approach to happen. And it has many genuine advantages for sound quality. I also kept thinking by now most high end speakers would be active with the amps built in at a minimum. But that has not and may not ever happen.

The big downside is you are all in at once. No components to upgrade later. And the big, big downside. If you decide later to go another direction it is an all in one affair. Get rid of it and start over.

I think there is a market. I even think the market might be stable enough. If high end would quit pushing this ridiculous idea more and more is better. I think 24 bit and reasonable sample rates are fine. Already 384khz is all about and some 768 khz. I suppose in a couple more years it will be beyond megahertz sampling. If you can realize this is of no benefit, then you wouldn't be bothered.

But a speaker with direct amps, digital to the very end, and crossovers done digitally has lots to like. Solves lots of problems.

puroagave · Feb 13, 2014

DaveyF said:
Linn have come out with a new speaker that my friends on the other side of the pond say is a game changer...the Exakt!

http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/how-it-works

and: http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/what-it-can-do

An interesting take on the Active approach or maybe something else.
Is this the new wave in high-end reproduction??

if i was 100% digital this would be on my shortlist along with meridian's system. the majority of my listening is from analog sources so this is a nonstarter for me. Exakt relies heavily on DSP requiring analog signals to go through the proverbial meat grinder (aka analog-digital conversion).

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 14, 2014

DaveyF said:
Linn have come out with a new speaker that my friends on the other side of the pond say is a game changer...the Exakt!

http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/how-it-works

and: http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/what-it-can-do

An interesting take on the Active approach or maybe something else.
Is this the new wave in high-end reproduction??

Are these active? The cartoon doesn't make it look that way. If there are no amps in the speakers, then the signals must be hitting a ADC on its way in, then going through DSP for crossover and room correction, DAC, then on to the soeakers. You still need a stereo amp on the outside? This is the wrong way to go, I think, not because of all the digital processing, but because you still don't have direct matching and connection of individual amps to individual drivers; the primary advantage of a active design. In fact, while the room correction is nice, I'm not sure there's a lot of advantage in digital crossovers if you're going to stay passive. Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

Tim

JackD201 · Feb 14, 2014

I heard this at the IASJ Tokyo Show. It just sounded weird and wrong. I was so perplexed I put my face a foot away from the left speaker. Yup, definitely weird and wrong. It wasn't the room. I'm certain of that.

Just to be clear I'm not against this type of design, I think Meridians sound very good.

Tim, the speakers are fed a digital signal from the source. DACs and Amps are inside the speaker.

microstrip · Feb 14, 2014

We already have famous and very expensive active speakers that accept digital signals since a few years - e.g. the Cabasse L'Ocean, the Beolab 5000 and the Backes and Mueller 50. I only listened to the Beolab 5000, that was no my cup of tea, but the few reviews and opinions that I have read point towards very dynamic and detailed systems, but nothing that could enthusiasm a typical audiophile to bring them to his listening room.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 14, 2014

JackD201 said:
I heard this at the IASJ Tokyo Show. It just sounded weird and wrong. I was so perplexed I put my face a foot away from the left speaker. Yup, definitely weird and wrong. It wasn't the room. I'm certain of that.

Just to be clear I'm not against this type of design, I think Meridians sound very good.

Tim, the speakers are fed a digital signal from the source. DACs and Amps are inside the speaker.

Thanks, jack. I wasn't getting that from the cartoon. There's no doubt that DSP can sound very wrong, or it can sound very right. It was probably set up poorly. This -- active, with amps, DAC, ADC, even pre and remote control all packaged together in the speaker cabs is, of course, nothing new or innovative. It's not uncommon on the pro side, and while it is quite rare at the consumer end, the small British company, AVi has been doing it for years. They even made a three way floor stander for awhile, but found there wasn't enough market for it. $?

Tim

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 14, 2014

microstrip said:
We already have famous and very expensive active speakers that accept digital signals since a few years - e.g. the Cabasse L'Ocean, the Beolab 5000 and the Backes and Mueller 50. I only listened to the Beolab 5000, that was no my cup of tea, but the few reviews and opinions that I have read point towards very dynamic and detailed systems, but nothing that could enthusiasm a typical audiophile to bring them to his listening room.

A rare moment off agreement. Digital, active systems will deliver all you mention above -- excellent dynamics and detail -- plus great transient response, bass control, clarity, razor sharp imaging and almost a complete lack of noise and distortion. But they don't deliver the tonality or the sense of space analog-bred audiophiles long for.

Tim

microstrip · Feb 14, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
A rare moment off agreement. Digital, active systems will deliver all you mention above -- excellent dynamics and detail -- plus great transient response, bass control, clarity, razor sharp imaging and almost a complete lack of noise and distortion. But they don't deliver the tonality or the sense of space analog-bred audiophiles long for.

Tim

Tim,

You immediately managed to break the agreement, splitting the audiophile world between analog and digital bred people

. Do you do you consider that digital-bred audiophiles do not enjoy a spacious and enveloping sound? IMHO, razor sharp imaging is an artifact created by microphones and does not help enjoying sound reproduction. And clarity is most of the time synonymous of an etched, excessively detailed and contrasted sound that does not sound natural to me.

MylesBAstor · Feb 14, 2014

Two years ago at CES, Colleen Cardas showed a similar product from an ex-Linn employee based out of Australia. The speaker had a built in DAC and amp and you simply streamed the music from the computer to the speaker. Sounded pretty good also. This product,however, was slated to retail for $2500 as opposed to 50,000 pounds. Not sure though what happened to this speaker as I don't find it listed on Colleen's site.

mep · Feb 14, 2014

Judging by this hokey cartoon, Linn is not aiming this new system at those that have already been run through the Linn sheep-dip. This appears to me to be aimed at the non-audiophile segment of the population. I loved the turntable that had the record spinning off-center. Was that supposed to represent their LP-12?

Just kidding! That's further proof Linn isn't marketing this system to their current customers.

MylesBAstor · Feb 14, 2014

mep said:
Judging by this hokey cartoon, Linn is not aiming this new system at those that have already been run through the Linn sheep-dip. This appears to me to be aimed at the non-audiophile segment of the population. I loved the turntable that had the record spinning off-center. Was that supposed to represent their LP-12? Just kidding! That's further proof Linn isn't marketing this system to their current customers.

Yes saw that too and the remarkable tonearm that didn't move and tracked the off center record perfectly!

Also, noted that they said the music was captured as studio master file and yet they should a reel spinning????

mep · Feb 14, 2014

Yea, I caught the reel spinning too. Nasty old analog getting into their perfect digital system...

JackD201 · Feb 14, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
Thanks, jack. I wasn't getting that from the cartoon. There's no doubt that DSP can sound very wrong, or it can sound very right. It was probably set up poorly. This -- active, with amps, DAC, ADC, even pre and remote control all packaged together in the speaker cabs is, of course, nothing new or innovative. It's not uncommon on the pro side, and while it is quite rare at the consumer end, the small British company, AVi has been doing it for years. They even made a three way floor stander for awhile, but found there wasn't enough market for it. $?

Tim

I don't like seeing any manufacturer do poorly so I sincerely hope it was an isolated set up problem. The sound was all fur and no meat. It was phase-y as all heck. I felt bad for the people manning the room. That dig you took at analog? Well this was a case of digital doing "fake" air and space and doing it extremely poorly.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 14, 2014

JackD201 said:
I don't like seeing any manufacturer do poorly so I sincerely hope it was an isolated set up problem. The sound was all fur and no meat. It was phase-y as all heck. I felt bad for the people manning the room. That dig you took at analog? Well this was a case of digital doing "fake" air and space and doing it extremely poorly.

That wasn't a dig. It is what it is and folks like what they like. I personally don't believe there's a secret sauce in vinyl and tape that will someday reveal how they are more revealing through their colorations. I think folks just like the colorations. And I'm fine with that. If they believe in analog's secret, undiscovered and immeasurable superiority instead of their own personal preference, well, you gotta do what you gotta do. But digital/active is all that I described and the description I gave to analog came right out of the analog-lover's mouths. No dig. Can you dig it?

Tim

MylesBAstor · Feb 14, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
A rare moment off agreement. Digital, active systems will deliver all you mention above -- excellent dynamics and detail -- plus great transient response, bass control, clarity, razor sharp imaging and almost a complete lack of noise and distortion. But they don't deliver the tonality or the sense of space analog-bred audiophiles long for.

Tim

Excuse me but that *space* IS there on good digital recordings. Especially on high rez recordings. Try a few Chesky recordings on for size. So if it's there's sense of space present, the system is wrong and being subtractive.

JackD201 · Feb 14, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
That wasn't a dig. It is what it is and folks like what they like. I personally don't believe there's a secret sauce in vinyl and tape that will someday reveal how they are more revealing through their colorations. I think folks just like the colorations. And I'm fine with that. If they believe in analog's secret, undiscovered and immeasurable superiority instead of their own personal preference, well, you gotta do what you gotta do. But digital/active is all that I described and the description I gave to analog came right out of the analog-lover's mouths. No dig. Can you dig it?

Tim

Aw c'mon quit pulling my leg

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 14, 2014

microstrip said:
Tim,

You immediately managed to break the agreement, splitting the audiophile world between analog and digital bred people . Do you do you consider that digital-bred audiophiles do not enjoy a spacious and enveloping sound? IMHO, razor sharp imaging is an artifact created by microphones and does not help enjoying sound reproduction. And clarity is most of the time synonymous of an etched, excessively detailed and contrasted sound that does not sound natural to me.

There was an agreement? So many questions...

I think digital audiophiles get spacious and enveloping sound in systems/rooms that are properly set-up. I just don't think they get the same sound analogphiles get.

I will be the first to admit that razor-sharp imaging is not natural, but it it is an artifact created by the microphones, it's on the recording, so it is high fidelity. Besides, given the right placement in the right room, you can get nearly as...difussed...as analog. You'll never get all the way there, digital channel separation is too good, but you can get close.

Yours is not the clarity I'm referring to. I guess you'd have to live with a good, engineered (as opposed to owner assembled) active system to get it, though. You, know, like I can't possibly have an opinion of vinyl because I don't have a turntable rig in my house?

Tim

JackD201 · Feb 14, 2014

I've never ever said this before Tim but man, I'm really starting to think you really haven't heard what a really good analog rig playing a really pristine LP can do. It can be plenty sharp man and plenty tight and deep too. I just wonder where you got the idea that analog enthusiasts have this universal thing for whatever you describe us as preferring. It might look like it because carts can sound so different but DACs sound different too. It's not like digital enthusiasts are arguing over which of their DACs is more Hi-Fidelity. Like everybody else, analog or digital they too are going for what works best for them/what they like.

microstrip · Feb 14, 2014

MylesBAstor said:
Excuse me but that *space* IS there on good digital recordings. Especially on high rez recordings. Try a few Chesky recordings on for size. So if it's there's sense of space present, the system is wrong and being subtractive.

Myles,

We do not even need to go to high rez - even in many CDs the space has been there. However, as you say the systems were not able to show it.

Soon we will realize that the "question" is not mainly between analog or digital partisans - but between open minded people that just told what they listened, their wrongs and rights, and those who told that since day one everything in digital was perfect, refuse to accept the fantastic improvements in sound reproduction in the last twenty years with both formats, and desperately dig in the stereotyped defaults of inferior measuring analog, forgetting about the good of it.

Meridian has been a pioneer of active speakers since their start almost 40 years ago, and curiously is systematically ignored by the more prominent active speakers promoters. The world’s first speaker using Digital Signal Processing – the DSP6000 was built in 1990, and yes, I have owned them and they did not sound good to me.

Should we remember that they also produced the first audiophile CD player and that Bob Stuart was an active enthusiast of Hi-Rez formats, denouncing the CD limitations?

The source is in the speaker!

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