Liquid-filled power cables?

Brian Walsh · Oct 20, 2012

They make custom lengths. For example they made a 6.5 meter pair of interconnects for one of my customers and he couldn't have been happier. But they don't go much longer than that due to the manufacturing processes. The speaker cables are available up to 4 or 5 meters.

I understand and agree there is no one size fits all when it comes to cables, due to electronic characteristics, impedances, and subjective preferences.

tarquineous · Oct 21, 2012

Brian Walsh said:
They make custom lengths. For example they made a 6.5 meter pair of interconnects for one of my customers and he couldn't have been happier. But they don't go much longer than that due to the manufacturing processes. The speaker cables are available up to 4 or 5 meters.

I understand and agree there is no one size fits all when it comes to cables, due to electronic characteristics, impedances, and subjective preferences.

That's good news ! I plan to give the new version a try. I hope to see more people on this forum with feedback on liquid cables from Audio Magic and Teo.

KBK · Jan 3, 2013

Nicholas Bedworth said:
There's a designer in Colorado, Jeremy Walsh (a.k.a. Jerry) who has spent the past few years developing a liquid-filled cable technology. www.audio-magic.com. Apart from high-grade connectors that fit snugly and securely, these cables are exceptionally flexible which is a pleasant change from too-stiff designes that have to be wrestled into position, or lift equipment into the air

Basically Jerry has experimented with various conductive gels and termination techniques and come up with a combination that sounds very well to my ears. Or more accurately, the cable seems to be quite free of any particular sound of its own.

That this could be so, with a design approach that has little to do with the more usual approach of metal conductors, insulators, air-tubes, returns and the like, is surprising and encouraging. It also points out that there may yet be news ways of doing what we do in audio that deliver excellent results.

Jerry is also on the list of having received multiple 'cease and desist' orders, over the times.

fluid power cables is something that is definitely possible but is strongly 'not recommended' under any circumstances. As for CSA UL or whatever approval rating might be given, I'd say that is (about 99% odds against) simply not possible to receive legal approval to run full voltage AC through a liquid transmission line. That a person might make their own, but it would be beyond the realm to receive legal approval to sell said item to anyone. The potential lethal situations that might erupt.. are simply too great.

I have the wherewithal and the components in front of me, right now, in the literal sense. Also extensive experience in the requisite area regarding the full mechanical engineering of this exact type of item.

I'm not foolish enough to even attempt it.

tarquineous · Jan 3, 2013

Realistically, someone will eventually puncture the cable, or pull the end off, etc. If the companies who make liquid cables are denied approval for AC cords, then they will have to keep their liquid wires inside of a PLC or power bar. Those are subject to laws and standards also.

FIY: Based on my experience of listening to many metals and conductors, you do NOT need long lengths to hear a difference or get the benefit of a conductor's sonic quality. For example, I can change the wiring in a PLC and hear quite a difference, depending on the wire of course. Similar with connectors on cords, interconnects, speakers and amplifiers. One of the most surprising differences I've heard is changing the wiring on only one side of a signal capacitor. I tried four different wire types, and the sound ranged from unbearable to very good.

So what I'm trying to say is twofold: Don't be sold on the idea that you need a certain type or brand of cable in every part of your audio system. 2: Be overly cautious with AC power in your home or studio. I have to agree with KBK on this AC cord issue.

Brian Walsh · Jan 4, 2013

So you know, 'KBK' is Ken Hotte, Teo Audio partner, who builds many if not most of the cables and has many years of experience and knowledge of the materials involved. Ken routinely 'loses' people in conversations while trying to explain how and why the liquid metal conductor material behaves as it does and why it 'breaks the rules' of conventional thinking about cables.

By the way, the last name of the person at that company in Colorado is Ramsey.

Steve Williams · Jan 4, 2013

Brian Walsh said:
So you know, 'KBK' is Ken Hotte, Teo Audio partner, who builds many if not most of the cables and has many years of experience and knowledge of the materials involved. Ken routinely 'loses' people in conversations while trying to explain how and why the liquid metal conductor material behaves as it does and why it 'breaks the rules' of conventional thinking about cables.

By the way, the last name of the person at that company in Colorado is Ramsey.

Yes indeed, I know Ken very well from other sites

Tubedoctor · Jan 5, 2013

Some years ago i got some cables filled with quicksilber. They were very very good at that time. But very dangerous too!

Brian Walsh · Jan 6, 2013

Tubedoctor said:
Some years ago i got some cables filled with quicksilber. They were very very good at that time. But very dangerous too!

By 'quicksilver' I assume you are referring to liquid mercury. Indeed, that is toxic. The material used in the Teo cables most certainly is not that.

I don't remember the details, but a material almost identical to the liquid metal used in the cables is approved for use in the human body during surgery. (!) About the only situation in which the material is hazardous is on board aircraft because gallium is corrosive against aluminum. Now, it is not recommended that you ingest the material, but you would have to consume the contents of a very large number of cables' conductor material to get sick. Thus in the very unlikely event of a leak, simple clean up is what one would do.

The rules of common sense apply here.

KBK · Jan 8, 2013

Steve Williams said:
Yes indeed, I know Ken very well from other sites

'Yes. 'other sites'.

I'm guessing Steve, that the other specific is more of a write off these days. It seems like a now oversized and commercialized/corporatized madhouse, as compared to the borderline comfy county sized and administered madhouse that we had prior.

TBG · Dec 17, 2014

I have experienced several "liquid" interconnects and speaker wire. Cerious Technology made some many years ago that got some positive reviews and also leaked. They more recently came out with prototype Nano technology cables which were not really liquid. Tara Labs also has liquid cables.

Frankly I see no reason why liquid would have benefit over solid metal. Both vibrate, both have resistance, both have signals that are influenced by EMI and RFI, etc., and liquid leaks and has to be solidly terminated.

Brian Walsh · Dec 18, 2014

TBG said:
I have experienced several "liquid" interconnects and speaker wire. Cerious Technology made some many years ago that got some positive reviews and also leaked. They more recently came out with prototype Nano technology cables which were not really liquid. Tara Labs also has liquid cables.

Frankly I see no reason why liquid would have benefit over solid metal. Both vibrate, both have resistance, both have signals that are influenced by EMI and RFI, etc., and liquid leaks and has to be solidly terminated.

Norm, your post is solely based upon assumptions rather than experience in your own system. Bob Grost's ceramic cables have nothing to do with the technology used in Teo Audio cables, which are the only cables employing liquid metal conductors. The terminations are indeed very secure, and with the exception of abuse carry a lifetime guarantee for the original owner.

Since Teo Audio cable conductor material is a proprietary patent-pending mix of gallium, indium, and tin, it may be informative to view the video about gallium (element number 31) in this link: http://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos.

microstrip · Dec 18, 2014

Brian Walsh said:
Norm, your post is solely based upon assumptions rather than experience in your own system. Bob Grost's ceramic cables have nothing to do with the technology used in Teo Audio cables, which are the only cables employing liquid metal conductors. The terminations are indeed very secure, and with the exception of abuse carry a lifetime guarantee for the original owner.

Since Teo Audio cable conductor material is a proprietary patent-pending mix of gallium, indium, and tin, it may be informative to view the video about gallium (element number 31) in this link: http://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos.

Brian,

The mix of gallium, indium and tin in correct proportions is a well known eutectic mixture with a melting point around -15º C (5ºF). Most probably the cables will break when used in very cold countries.

The use of this mixture was patented for use in thermometers in 1997, thinking that it could be a mercury replacement. http://www.google.com/patents/US6019509 Unfortunately for the patent holder electronic digital thermometers became very cheap by the time mercury was effectively banned.

TBG · Dec 18, 2014

Brian Walsh said:
Norm, your post is solely based upon assumptions rather than experience in your own system. Bob Grost's ceramic cables have nothing to do with the technology used in Teo Audio cables, which are the only cables employing liquid metal conductors. The terminations are indeed very secure, and with the exception of abuse carry a lifetime guarantee for the original owner.

Since Teo Audio cable conductor material is a proprietary patent-pending mix of gallium, indium, and tin, it may be informative to view the video about gallium (element number 31) in this link: http://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos.

Brian, I don't know why you would say what I said is based on assumptions rather than experience. I had all of these in my system. Of course, my last statement is hypothesizing.

Brian Walsh · Dec 18, 2014

microstrip said:
Brian,

The mix of gallium, indium and tin in correct proportions is a well known eutectic mixture with a melting point around -15º C (5ºF). Most probably the cables will break when used in very cold countries.

The use of this mixture was patented for use in thermometers in 1997, thinking that it could be a mercury replacement. http://www.google.com/patents/US6019509 Unfortunately for the patent holder electronic digital thermometers became very cheap by the time mercury was effectively banned.

Your last comment above is correct. The eutetic mixture used in Teo Audio Liquid Cables is different from Galinstan. The melting point is quite low, and in instances such as leaving cables in a car overnight when the temperature dips below that, one only needs to bring them indoors and let them warm up (literally) before using them. After all, the cables are made in Canada.

Brian Walsh · Dec 18, 2014

TBG said:
Brian, I don't know why you would say what I said is based on assumptions rather than experience. I had all of these in my system. Of course, my last statement is hypothesizing.

Yes, it is. You didn't say what cables and versions you had.

awsmone · Dec 19, 2014

Actually a 1% solution of silica nano particles ( 10 nm) will allow gallium to remain liquid well below its freezing point and maintain stability without freezing for many days

So maybe they added this to eutectic mixture? to avoid breakages/freezing given they are in Canada

awsmone · Jan 10, 2015

There doesn't seem to be anything secret about the mixture

its on their website

http://teoaudio.com/files/LiqCable-MSDS.pdf

TBG · Jan 11, 2015

Yes, but my experiences are not based on assumptions. I have heard only the original Taras and am unwilling to assume that the new ones sound greatly different.

Brian Walsh · Jan 11, 2015

TBG said:
Yes, but my experiences are not based on assumptions. I have heard only the original Taras and am unwilling to assume that the new ones sound greatly different.

Understood, but you are mistaken.

richard · Feb 2, 2015

Brian Walsh said:
They make custom lengths. For example they made a 6.5 meter pair of interconnects for one of my customers and he couldn't have been happier. But they don't go much longer than that due to the manufacturing processes. The speaker cables are available up to 4 or 5 meters.

I understand and agree there is no one size fits all when it comes to cables, due to electronic characteristics, impedances, and subjective preferences.

I'm Brian's customer who ordered the custom 6.5 m ICs. I used to have all Kubala Emotion ICs and Elation SCs. While delivering a Kuzma 4-point, Brian brought some standard Teo ICs and SCs for me to try. The improvement of the ICs over the Emotions was (to me, anyway) immediate, mind-boggling, and, most importantly, lasting. It wasn't so much like a "veil had been lifted" as like "multiple walls had been knocked down." I replaced every IC in my system with Teos, ordering the long custom run to connect ARC 40th Anniv to CAT JL-3 Statements. I wasn't quite as taken with the standard speaker cables as I was with the ICs, but when I later demo'd the Ref version, I replaced the Elation SCs with them. All the interconnects have since been upgraded by Ken to Mk II status, at no charge. Brian's right, I was so pleased I haven't even thought about cables since, which is about as good as it gets. No, he didn't put me up to this, I just stumbled over the thread.

Liquid-filled power cables?

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