Headphones and amps: where have I been?

Shaffer · Feb 10, 2014

It started with Beyer DT990pros. I bought them, got a Little Dot III headphone amp, which I sold not that long thereafter, and found myself really enjoying the headphone experience as a whole. It lent another, new perspective to essentially all recordings.

Now I own 9 cans:

Beyer DT990pro
Beyer DT880 (600 Ohm)
Sennheiser HD600
AKG K702
AKG K612
AKG K550
AT AD900x
AT A900x
Sony V6 (I've had these for a while. Use them solely for TT setup)

Played with different pads, made some modifications here and there. Some worked out, some didn't. Eventually it all gelled.

I also settled on a few amplifiers, after trying a number:

Violectric V200
Meier-Audio Corda Concerto

And, believe it or not, a 1972 vintage SX-626 Pioneer receiver, whose headphone-out sounds surprisingly good. A shade away from the Corda. The receiver, itself, came from a time warp and that's a story in itself. It as near-mint as a 42 year old piece can get. Came with its original box, packing materials, original bag and polishing cloth, original antenna bound by the original (and deteriorated) rubber band, a schematic, brochures and warranty cards, and of course the manual, but I digress.

I also discovered that an Oppo105's headphone-out is no slouch, either. It's easily on par with the outboard amps I listed, and in some ways more fleshed-out: more air, more space, more low-level detail. With a USB stick, it sounds even better. The 105 is truly an amazing product, IME. In terms of digital, I use the Oppo amp and the V200, which has a forgiving, warm presentation (unlike the 105). The Concerto is for the turntable.

Now my listening is split 40/60 in favor of the main system. I thought I'd put, maybe, an hour or two on the cans per week. Didn't turn out that way. It's the most fun I've had with audio in quite a while.

WLVCA · Feb 10, 2014

I enjoy listening to headphones, too. Started because my wife complained that my speaker system was too loud. Funny part was that once I started with the headphones she complained that I couldn't hear her when I had the headphones on.

We've since compromised and my speaker system is in a more distant room.

I own three headphones for more serious listening - Hifiman HE500, Sennheiser HD650 and AKG Q701. All have been fitted with balanced cables and I use an Emotiva A-100 Miniamp with 50 watts per channel and speaker taps to drive the headphones. Also have a Burson HA160 headphone amp but haven't listened to it in a while.

Headphones are a different listening experience. Nice to have the option to choose speakers or headphones depending upon my mood.

cjfrbw · Feb 10, 2014

Have some oddball solutions, partially from things breaking and exploring out of curiosity. I have two residences and one I can't blast the stereo the way I like, so I started looking into high quality headphones and got into it a bit.

Pleasanton: Manley Neo 300b preamplifier driving Yamaha B2 VFET vintage amp into Stax SRD 5 transformer box modified with Stancor old iron transformers to Stax SR 507 headphones in which I have replaced the mylar myself.

Santa Cruz: Wavac 572 amplifier driving Stax SRD 7 transformer box modified with new Dyna Z565 transformers to vintage Stax 3n headphones with 5n membranes.

Both the Wavac amp and the Yamaha B2 amp do double duty, as I can switch them and they also drive bass panels of the main speaker rigs.

I find these to sound, for my taste, better than many of the top commercial headphone systems I have heard at shows i.e. Abyss/Liquid Gold, Stax SR 009/Blue Hawaii etc.

There is a marked prejudice amongst some of the younger headphone gurus on the blogs against driving Stax headphones using transformers, but with these beefier, higher quality transformers. I find that they give the best of both worlds i.e. speed as well as flow/tone/fullness/dynamics. With the powerful amps, the Stax/amp/transformer combos sound pretty sublime.

I also use a pair of Ultrasone Ed8 dynamic headphones with the Manley Neo 300b or just to listen straight out of the computer headphone jack, and that's pretty cool, too.

Alrainbow · Feb 10, 2014

Woo audio had the wee. It is just a transformer. I never have tried it. For me headphones is the closest to speakers .
As I also have a few CIEM,s. I have a few amps some are speaker amps as well. My favorite can is the HE6 from hifiman
And is use a woo audio WA5 and a krell kav400xi. I also have the stax 009 and woo Wes. I have an BHSE on order for about 9 months now. Does anyone here use EQ with there cans.?

Al

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 10, 2014

Shaffer said:
It started with Beyer DT990pros. I bought them, got a Little Dot III headphone amp, which I sold not that long thereafter, and found myself really enjoying the headphone experience as a whole. It lent another, new perspective to essentially all recordings.

Now I own 9 cans:

Beyer DT990pro
Beyer DT880 (600 Ohm)
Sennheiser HD600
AKG K702
AKG K612
AKG K550
AT AD900x
AT A900x
Sony V6 (I've had these for a while. Use them solely for TT setup)

Played with different pads, made some modifications here and there. Some worked out, some didn't. Eventually it all gelled.

I also settled on a few amplifiers, after trying a number:

Violectric V200
Meier-Audio Corda Concerto

And, believe it or not, a 1972 vintage SX-626 Pioneer receiver, whose headphone-out sounds surprisingly good. A shade away from the Corda. The receiver, itself, came from a time warp and that's a story in itself. It as near-mint as a 42 year old piece can get. Came with its original box, packing materials, original bag and polishing cloth, original antenna bound by the original (and deteriorated) rubber band, a schematic, brochures and warranty cards, and of course the manual, but I digress.

I also discovered that an Oppo105's headphone-out is no slouch, either. It's easily on par with the outboard amps I listed, and in some ways more fleshed-out: more air, more space, more low-level detail. With a USB stick, it sounds even better. The 105 is truly an amazing product, IME. In terms of digital, I use the Oppo amp and the V200, which has a forgiving, warm presentation (unlike the 105). The Concerto is for the turntable.

Now my listening is split 40/60 in favor of the main system. I thought I'd put, maybe, an hour or two on the cans per week. Didn't turn out that way. It's the most fun I've had with audio in quite a while.

I believe you on both counts. I've had a few headphone amps through here and one of the best was a 70s Harman Kardon integrated amp. Most headphone circuits in those vintage units were just a step down of the speaker amps through some resistors. That method, they say, will change the FR on a low impedance load, but your cans with a few ohms on them should do just fine. My trusty old HD580s sounded great through that HK. The Etymotics, not so much. And I believe the oppo, because what replaced that old HK is a Panasonic receiver that is all digital. Of course it doesn't use the equibit amps for the headphone jack, but it up samples everything incoming to 24/192 (even converts in-coming analog) processes it there, then brings it back to analog before running it through a whoknowswhat op amp into the headphone out. A purist's nightmare; even a digital purist's nightmare, but it sounds wonderful; deep, dead silent background, great breadth, incredible detail and no lack of bass impact. A great headlamp where I never expected to find one.

Tim

Alrainbow · Feb 11, 2014

If I may suggest the hd800 for extreme clarity and staging. Just use a little EQ to lower the treble on the lesser recordings
And a little EQ to increase the bass and they are fantastic headphones. I have a whole host of amps and headphones as well as speaker rigs. And if anyone hear needs some advice or help please feel free to ask or pm me. I use heahones also to begin the setup of my speaker rigs as well. It gives a good bass of the sound to start. Does anyone here use CIEM,S ?

Al

Bruce B · Feb 12, 2014

It's sad, but the first thing I saw were the HD800's !!

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 12, 2014

Here's a pair of HD800s in that picture?

dalethorn · Feb 12, 2014

tomelex said:
i for one am looking forward to the evolution of headphones and overcoming the music between your ears (due to conventional stereo recording which most music is) to the point we get even better imaging and depth...it appers the hd800 are starting down that path...i hope..

I'd recommend a parametric equalizer like Audioforge - simple to configure - and it will improve the imaging and depth even though you wouldn't expect that. Many closed headphones that sound constricted just "open up" in a very gratifying way.

dalethorn · Feb 12, 2014

Alrainbow said:
If I may suggest the hd800 for extreme clarity and staging. Just use a little EQ to lower the treble on the lesser recordings. And a little EQ to increase the bass and they are fantastic headphones. I have a whole host of amps and headphones as well as speaker rigs. And if anyone hear needs some advice or help please feel free to ask or pm me. I use heahones also to begin the setup of my speaker rigs as well. It gives a good bass of the sound to start. Does anyone here use CIEM,S ? Al

Great suggestion on the HD800, and tweaking both ends of the curve.

Alrainbow · Feb 12, 2014

Yea EQ , it's so hard for people to understand the virtue of EQ. People are so afraid they are changing the so called perfect music . No one knows how it was recorded and all the EQ and compression it goes through and still we cannot change it .
What a joke. As we all hear different it's the only way I see to make things right for each of us.

Al

dalethorn · Feb 12, 2014

I've been frustrated by EQ for years, since it's hard to get right and usually leaves annoying holes and peaks in the sound, so that's why I mentioned Audioforge as a safer and simpler solution.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 13, 2014

dalethorn said:
I've been frustrated by EQ for years, since it's hard to get right and usually leaves annoying holes and peaks in the sound, so that's why I mentioned Audioforge as a safer and simpler solution.

I got a tip from a friend in the business many years ago that has served me well. He told me EQ was not only best when used very sparingly, but when used reductively. It just seems to be a lot easier to get it right by cutting. I don't get it, but it works I don't boost much unless I'm looking for effect, not correction.

I don't get the audiophile fear of EQ, either, but then again, I don't get the less is more philosophy coupled with the reality of absurdly complex systems with a box for everything, each containing many redundant noise making components, all connected together with miles of interference-inviting wire. "Less is more" would be a well designed integrated amp with a built-in DAC. We'd call that midfi.

Tim

Alrainbow · Feb 13, 2014

Exactly. It is a shame there is dedecated thread for a how to of EQ. Some how the more we get into hi end. It becomes a race for so called purity. A purity that does not exist in The first lace. I use CIEM,S daily with a DAP. and I do cut as well as increase depending on the IEM I M useing. Now given IEMS are by far not whole in the presentation I adjust to get back what I know is missing.

Al

dalethorn · Feb 13, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
I got a tip from a friend in the business many years ago that has served me well. He told me EQ was not only best when used very sparingly, but when used reductively. It just seems to be a lot easier to get it right by cutting. I don't get it, but it works I don't boost much unless I'm looking for effect, not correction. I don't get the audiophile fear of EQ, either, but then again, I don't get the less is more philosophy coupled with the reality of absurdly complex systems with a box for everything, each containing many redundant noise making components, all connected together with miles of interference-inviting wire. "Less is more" would be a well designed integrated amp with a built-in DAC. We'd call that midfi. Tim

This is a classic post. If only I had read this and understood it 25 years ago, I'd be rich today instead of poor.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 13, 2014

dalethorn said:
This is a classic post. If only I had read this and understood it 25 years ago, I'd be rich today instead of poor.

Thanks. The really sad thing is, the audiophile community calls that sort of thing midfi regardless of its performance. The conventional wisdoms, even the contradicting ones, are in so deep no amount of reality can shake them. These days, my system is speakers, amps (4 of them) pre and 24/192 DAC all in a pair of active monitors. One box on the outside, takes USB from my Macbook and sends coax to my headphone system, optical to the active speakers. In an appropriately-sized room, with a good sub, it would kick a lot of "high-end" systems around pretty hard. And it's three generations old.

It's not rocket science. Active makes sense. The shortness and simplicity of the signal chain makes sense. And "synergy" forged by the audio engineer who designed the system instead of by an audiophile with an insatiable case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome makes sense. Just gotta have some sense.

Tim

dalethorn · Feb 13, 2014

One of the truly nice products I've gotten in the past 2 years is Deckert's Zen Head amp. It's small but has enough power for most headphones. Deckert has a paper that describes the things he left out, such as short-circuit protection, AC line filters (it runs on battery), etc. And the darn thing does have more detail than the little head-amps I've tried that are mass-made in China. I don't suppose you'd use a battery - lead-acid or whatever - to power speaker amps unless the speakers were very efficient, but then again it might work although with lead-acid you'd have to be careful not to let it run down too far. BTW, the first DOS laptops we had in 1984 ran on lead-acid batteries.

i.e. Short circuit or reverse polarity protection for the battery.

Alrainbow · Feb 13, 2014

Funny there are other amps that are battery for headphones. The thinking is better PSU for the amps. And there is a really expensive hi end amp made by somebody for big rig speakers. It appears audio has now turned to PSU,s to produce better sound. As I have all three , speakers , headphones and CIEM,S. Speakers are the abosolute closely followed by headphones.
Al

Shaffer · Feb 14, 2014

I run 320mbps Spotify in my office, in conjunction with a Schiit Modi (an appropriately named product, if there ever was one) and AudioEngine A5+ speakers with a Klipsch blahblah-12 sub. A Corda Arietta, as well, for the cans. Saw an EQ plugin for Spotify the other day. My first reaction, what would I do with it? That's essentially how I feel about EQ'ing headphones. Can't think of a single reason why I'd want to.

dalethorn · Feb 14, 2014

Shaffer said:
I run 320mbps Spotify in my office, in conjunction with a Schiit Modi (an appropriately named product, if there ever was one) and AudioEngine A5+ speakers with a Klipsch blahblah-12 sub. A Corda Arietta, as well, for the cans. Saw an EQ plugin for Spotify the other day. My first reaction, what would I do with it? That's essentially how I feel about EQ'ing headphones. Can't think of a single reason why I'd want to.

Headphone frequency response varies widely from neutral (unlike amps), and if you don't know what you're missing then no problem. For me to have some assurance that an EQ I design is doing the right thing, I have to make comparisons with several headphones and many music tracks, to zero in on a setting that makes the sound more neutral. There are a few people who may argue against neutral, but non-neutral applies the headphone's inherent bias (colorations) to everything it plays, which isn't good for a variety of music, unless the user's music selections sound pretty much alike.

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