Dartzeel vs. Tenor audio

hi mike lavigne

I thought I saw a response from you a little while ago.....but!

I am sure your are one of the pioneers in personal usage of hiend audio at its cutting edge at home

I am sure the Dartzeel 's as the 18NS/108 combo with active speaker array like your old vsa 9se and the ea mm3 and your current ea mm7 must be in cloud nine ......close to sonic nirvana

Mike with your esoteric sound chamber and the Dartzeel NHB 458/ NHB 18NS with splendid active ea MM7 ......you may be obscure by the clouds...".nearer my god to thee".......ie the goddess of sound!

The initial clinical scoring was only on the sound reproduced in my living space !!!.......by a bunch of drunks , a strange group of eye surgeons with an obsession for the final outcomes ( comes with the trade ) and a few not too passionate of sound, a very astute and very experienced sound engineer and all as well fed aliens!!

The basic Dartzeel combo 108/18 NHB is very cost effective , very versatile and very compatible and accomplished pair.....so as a package a score of.........9.5/10

The Kronzilla mono blocks are also stunning...................scoring 9/10......if the cost factor is added on

The Tenor combo 350 M/pre amp combo.........I would still score a 9.5/10....... even though it's a four piece combo with no phono and fairly large and space occupying.......but does have a very special magic when it's translates to music....especially in my living room....... I am sure it's very subjective

The Tenor350M HP is silent beast and has come a very longway from its inital inception as the 300 ......and with the Tenor pre amps ( which is the most neutral preamp I have heard and used?..it is the real magic link)
I would love listen to the proposed test 500/600 watt tenors with pre amp

I know the combo of Tenors and an active speaker system like VSA vr 9se mark 2.....is a very strange mix and not a ideal industry match......but it works very well for me......at the end , it's just a means to listening to music.

I am sure the darts 458/18ns must be a match made in heaven.......would love to hear that combo and your set up ......if at all possible......when I visit the US west coast.

cheers

Sam.aka violetmachan

EERA Autograph? Do you mean the Integrale? The Integrale is a very good CD Player too but the Tentation is really just that little bit better in every way. Given the relatively small price difference I don't really think many people go for the Integrale anymore. I can't seem to sell our Integrale. When we line up the players the customers always end up saying what the heck give me the Tentation.

JackD201 said:

EERA Autograph? Do you mean the Integrale? The Integrale is a very good CD Player too but the Tentation is really just that little bit better in every way. Given the relatively small price difference I don't really think many people go for the Integrale anymore. I can't seem to sell our Integrale. When we line up the players the customers always end up saying what the heck give me the Tentation.

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thanks jack for the update
do you do the tube rolling you mentioned with the Lamm amps
any photos of the vr 11se mark2 in your set up with the vr 9se mark 2 as rears
have you started using the ultra IC and speakers cables as part of your final setup...YFS!

cheers
Sam aka violetmachan

You've got me mixed up with Jim Sam He's the one that presently has 11s in front and 9s in the rear. I'm taking his 11s as he's trading these in for the VR-111 multi-tower. My nines are spoken for already and I believe his 9s along with his Gotham are moving to his HT with a Visiun C and VR-4 SR MkIIIs for rears. I think it will be some more months. I'm hoping April or May but I am expecting July. VSA had to rent out a pretty big space and treat it for the final measurements/voicing of these 8ft behemoths.

minirac said:

Thanks Violetmachan for your sharing this hard to get infos and comparisons. I think we can wait for new dartzeel preamp and power and than compare to tenors.. last week i listened to dartzeel 8550 intergrated and it sounded wonderfull, very natural. What you guys think will be the best speakers match with tenor pre/power monos combo? Violetmachan on what prefaration did you chose your vr 9se mark 2?

Marko

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"the best speakers match with tenor pre/power monos combo?"

Hi marko......

I am sure the dartzeel 8550 integrated amp is stunning amp " ALL IN ONE Unit"......very concise and compacct with all the magic of harve and the beautiful midrange magic of the dartz

I hear there is a new cheaper unit with a fabulous dac and an all in one unit.....in one way makes music listening very easily annd comfortable


Now marko for your million dollar question...." best speakers match with tenor pre/power monos combo"......it is very subjective and soo very personal!......what sounds fine for me and my room may be a misadventure for you.....you must trust your head and make sure your eyes don`t betray your ears and hope your bank is sound!.........most important make sure you ride the wave and learn to enjoy the ride!


Jim fairhead of tenor audio perfers to use the very powerful tenor combo with a passive speaker array...ie he uses the Hansen grand master 2 at home for his set up.....

Most Audio Show ideal combos with tenor is either the YG or Hansens and Kharma`s

I have heard the topend YGs and the middle range of hansens ......all of the do make fine music.....did not have the chance to listen to the kharma`s



For some reason I wanted to make do with what I had and definitely was passionate about being purely passive! initially , only in speaker terms......the VSA 7se mark 2 upgrade was specifically upgraded and modded by albert to fit and sound at its best in my living space

I did change to the Vr 9se Mark 2 sometime ago and never looked back( many years ago I had spend a day with Albert at his setup in california and the sound of the vr 9se never left my mind!)......now every time i play music it just fills the room with MUSIC!.......



Marko there is an other very important factor ....you grow to like the people behind the items of interest

Both Jim and Albert offer very personal and magical aftersales care along two continents........remember I live in UK, amps are from canada and the speakers are from california

Jim is simple magnifique!..... I personally had special software in the preamps to incorporate the meridian 861 cinema system with the tenors...the cinema bypass now comes as standard with the preamp.....any blips or dips or fine tuning/latest upgrades all are done instantly.......which is endless

Albert is an other very special and stunning personality with respect to my sound needs and as a humanbeing with splendid and prompt aftercare.....which is again endless.


In my ideal world the best speaker you can get/order is to have a custom built speaker system to suit your listening needs, catered to you, your taste, your system and most importantly your room and tweaked to your satisfaction.......and tweaked and tweaked till you are happy with the sound.....ie to justify what you have just thrown away!!!!!

I must say Jim Fairhead, Albert Von Schweikert, cor dekker are sterling examples of the same

I also did have a brief conversation with Harve (i did actually pay for the dartz combo and ..)......an other very passionate and sincere humanbeing and was very impressive.......again a man who was mad and passionate about making nothing but the best sound!


sorry to confuse you in making an informed choice Marko

cheers
sam: aka activeviolet

HI Violetmachan
I have a small budget to upgrade my current amp, i am looking into the older Tenor audio HP300M upgraded version with Mosfet and HSI , HSI same found in Tenor 350M. Using your scale, what will it be compare to Dartzeel , Kr Kronzilla DXL and yours Tenor 350M H. Could it be better than Dartzeel and KR. ?
Unfortunate, i have never heard all this world class amps. will appreciate you thought. thanks
Chris

Csng1 said:

HI Violetmachan
I have a small budget to upgrade my current amp, i am looking into the older Tenor audio HP300M upgraded version with Mosfet and HSI , HSI same found in Tenor 350M. Using your scale, what will it be compare to Dartzeel , Kr Kronzilla DXL and yours Tenor 350M H. Could it be better than Dartzeel and KR. ?
Unfortunate, i have never heard all this world class amps. will appreciate you thought. thanks
Chris

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what speakers will you be using for this amplifier you are considering? how large is the room? any particular specific tastes in music as a focus or are you wanting to have sufficient power for any type?

amplifiers are beasts of context. most need to match the task at hand to be optimal and be judged fairly.

Hi minirac
I am considering Tenor HP300M which is a upgraded with HSI and mosfet vs KR Kornzilla DX MK2 100wpc single ended or DXL 140wpc push/pull. This model is the older version before they went BK only 26 units being build, but have factory upgraded so no worry of failure. However it cannot be compare with new 350M but i need to know how much lesser then 350M and is KR DXL better than the old tenor. Any issue on T1610 tube, they said it can last 10 years, will it sound the same at 5000-8000hrs?
Unfortunately, i have never heard either of the above amps. My speaker is Hansen Emperor 87db 6ohms, dropping lowest 4.5ohms , Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse linestage with one power supply. room size is 16ft wide x 25ft long x 9ft Height there is no immediate wall on the right as it open to 14ft wide x 20ft long x 9ft H.
My current 15 years old amps still kicking is Krell FPB600. Krell is like a beast never have i had a problem.
Base Doc Violetmachan and Cor. it seem KR 8.5/10 Tenor 350M 9.5/10- therefore i assume KR will be better than the older Tenor HP300M even upgraded. So DXL is cheaper than DX MK2. which is a better buy? are they sound the same? Thanks
Chris

HI Mike
I listened to most type of music except heavy metal, mostly rock and Jazz, country, folks, blues. Not much classical.
I know that Hansen Emperor is a great match with Tenor amps, as they have many hifi show together. My Hansen Emperor is the older version with 4 drivers.
I checked 96 to 100db is very loud where i seated. So i would like it to be able to handle 100db volume.

I agree with Mike L. Amps really are very context dependent.

Someone you might want to ask is Mike Malinowski. He might not have the same speakers/room/etc but AFAIK he owns both the 350s and the Dart 108s. He's also done a review of the KR DXLs in the same system. I don't think he is a member here but Peter Breuninger, his buddy, is.

Hi Jack
I did wrote Mike Malinowski a email but no reply from him yet. His review on KR DXL prompted me to have great interest in it.

Hello chris

sorry for the delay.....did get your Pm....happy to answer any of your doubts and queries.

It's nice to hear that your are tending towards the tenor 300HP monoblocks....they are now very stable , reliable hybrids once they have been upgraded to the new platforms....tube life is not a problem

I hope you have heard them......I think it's a must....if not the amp your are buying but atleast ...similar models.

I notice your are using the older Hansen emperor speaker......they are the best match for the tenors power amps......they do work very well with full range passive array of speakers.
Jim Fairhead of tenor audio uses the Grand Master Hansen mark 2 speakers....he fells its a match made in heaven

your room is big enough and should work very well

I have never heard your preamp

Now both the other options you are thinking about ie

Kronzilla mono blocks and the Dartzeel 18Ns and 108 stereo amp......both work very well with full range but active speaker system....ie powered subwoofers system incooperated in the full range array

I have had ultimate kronzilla mono blocks at home via my tenors preamp with the vsa vr9se mark 2 speakers( active system)......beautiful sound with wonderful musical headroom....that the magic of the kronzilla monoblocks

The Dartzeel combo again works very well with active speaker systems.....it's real magic is its very life like mellifluous midrange

Now , chris you seem to be a major solid state krell 600 amps.....and you may have something which you like very much with the Combo....since you have lived with it for 15 years

You will need to listen to the tenors at home....home run is a must to make the system, it's interaction with your room and the sum of parts , produce sound you like!!!

It's probably the best match ,you will get with you current passive hansen emperor speakers .They will take you closer to what you are searching for......miles ahead of the old krell600 and especially with the powerful tenor hybrids.

Now...Tenor under Jim Fairhead.....provides pure magic service....very dependable and reliable and most prompt after. sales care...remember I live in UK and my amps are Canadian and my speakers are San Francisco

More so...Jim is a wonderful person.

I hope I was of some help to chris!

enjoy your music

chris,
A year ago cor dekker and a few audio mad friends did some serious amp and cable testing at home for a long summer weekend
I have enclosed a link to the thread in Audio circle.....which just seems to look into all you choices you have at hand at present.

hope it's of help....I have listened to all the above combos at home....the only one I haven't heard at home is the new Dartzeel 18ns preamp and the very powerful Dartzeel 458 monoblocks.....I am sure Mike lavigne will give you a very honest , real and sincere opinion .....on , beyond the final frontier , edge of technology sound

I do like the tenor sound and how it works at home.....My Tenor mono-blocks 350m HP will be gone for new 500m Haute puissance monoblock upgrade ......I have no regrets with my choice especially with the new ultra extreme entire loom of cables....enclosed the link

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0

hello marko

I would second that tenor option....not because of my user bias....but more so with chris current likes and dislike,major solid state krell 600 amps along with a very powerful passive hansen speaker system .....Tenor/Hansen , said to be a match made in heaven.....but it's a must to listen to the amp and speakers at home which wil help him , to take that plunge!

regards
Sam

hello marko

The power amps are all ready and packed ....waiting for collection....note I live in England and use tenor amps from Canada and speakers from San Francisco

I not sure if it will change what I all ready have at home.I have been currently using the very new yet to be released complete loom of VSA-MB ultra extreme interconnect s and the 8 piece speaker cables at home ...currently in a very long 1000 hour plus runin program ...... which at present is the very best I have heard at home!

Link enclosed:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131803.40

Jim Fairhead feels the 500m HP mark two.....with its enhanced high damping factor and new ultra silent and new 2600va transformer .....will be able to run as an absolute master slave control of the vr9se speakers ...

well I'll know only when it comes back.....hope I do not over kook / power my nice living space ,system and it's current magical interaction balance.....it took a very long time to reach this place!!.....but well, will thoroughly enjoy the ride!

Sam