Dartzeel vs. Tenor audio

minirac

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Anyone compare/heard Dartzeel pre vs Tenor line1/power1 pre? Or power amps of both companies? I found only this on that article from Mike Malinowski review on Tenor 350M. Is something out there that beat Tenors pre/power combo?

Staying with this comparison, the Tenors are like a darTZeel on steroids. (Good steroids, not those harmful illegal ones.) The qualities of purity, resolution and transparency that make darTZeel a world-class amp are raised up a notch or two with the Tenors. If you like the sonic presentation the 'darts brings to the table, you'll be ecstatic with the 350Ms. There's a lot in the basic foundation that is similar but Tenor takes it to another level and they should based on the price differential. The biggest differences are ultimate power, dynamics and bass. Don't forget that I am comparing a 100-watt darTZeel that is happiest at 8 ohms with a 350-watt monster that will effectively double power down to 2 ohms.
 

asiufy

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I don't know, never heard or read about this comparison. Doesn't make much sense actually, as the actual quote from the article makes perfectly clear...

Anyway, I heard the Tenor (amps) with YG at RMAF a few years ago, and it was good. But they weren't using Tenor's preamp (I think they used Veloce instead). That kinda says a lot right there.

I believe other preamps have reached the 18NS' level, like the Soulution 7xx, while mostly costing more than the darTZeel. These are transparent to a fault. But there will be an 18NS mk2 soon, so expect the darTZeel to leapfrog the competition once again :)


alexandre
 

MylesBAstor

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I don't know, never heard or read about this comparison. Doesn't make much sense actually, as the actual quote from the article makes perfectly clear...

Anyway, I heard the Tenor (amps) with YG at RMAF a few years ago, and it was good. But they weren't using Tenor's preamp (I think they used Veloce instead). That kinda says a lot right there.

I believe other preamps have reached the 18NS' level, like the Soulution 7xx, while mostly costing more than the darTZeel. These are transparent to a fault. But there will be an 18NS mk2 soon, so expect the darTZeel to leapfrog the competition once again :)


alexandre

Alex,

Tenor and/or other exhibitors have used the Tenor amp/pre combo several times at shows. One room that comes to mind was Hansen and I'm also pretty sure that YG did also two years ago at CES. So I wouldn't draw anything from that single experience.
 

MylesBAstor

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Staying with this comparison, the Tenors are like a darTZeel on steroids. (Good steroids, not those harmful illegal ones.)

Anyone compare/heard Dartzeel pre vs Tenor line1/power1 pre? Or power amps of both companies? I found only this on that article from Mike Malinowski review on Tenor 350M. Is something out there that beat Tenors pre/power combo?

That analog BTW makes zero sense. There are anabolic steroids and there are corticosteroids. Both are used for different conditions and neither have particularly benign effects. So that analog is wrong. :(
 

asiufy

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Alex,

Tenor and/or other exhibitors have used the Tenor amp/pre combo several times at shows. One room that comes to mind was Hansen and I'm also pretty sure that YG did also two years ago at CES. So I wouldn't draw anything from that single experience.

Could be. I was drawing from my experience, as well as recollection of several show reports, where these amps were always partnered with another brand's pre-amp. But if you remember seeing the actual Tenor pre-amp in action, it must exist :D


alexandre
 

JackD201

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Tenor's new preamp is fairly new. I don't think not using it was a conscious choice. There was no Tenor pre to use before two years ago.

WBF member Violetmachan uses the Tenor pre-power combo. Yes it exists :)

MikeL went from Tenor to Dartzeel but that was before Tenor returned with these new models. I have no idea how different the old Tenors are from the new.
 

jtinn

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MikeL went from Tenor to Dartzeel but that was before Tenor returned with these new models. I have no idea how different the old Tenors are from the new.

The new model has better circuit protection. I was told, by someone "involved" with Tenor, that the 350 is really a "finished" 300. I am very familiar with both the Tenor amps and the darTZeel and sonically there really is no contest. The darTZeel NHB-108 is much more lifelike. The Tenor is indeed a very beautiful sounding amplifier with quite a bit more power than the NHB-108, but to my ears, much darker and not as involving.

I am not personally familiar with the Tenor preamp as I have only heard it at shows. It looks gorgeous.
 

ozy

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Am familiar with the new tenor 350 and its new preamp. in fact seriously considered them for my system, before opting for the Burmester 909s+077.
the Tenors render beautiful sound ,but everything kinda sounds beautiful thru them. not life like. plus inmho, they are way overpriced.
the dartzeels i heard, the nhb 108 i believe, was very organic and more life like sounding. my $0.02.
 

Violetmachan

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The organic Dartzeel vs the Dark Knight The Tenors

IMG_0200 (2).jpg IMG_3196 (3).jpg IMG_3197 (2).jpg IMG_3200 (2).jpg IMG_3199 (2).jpg The organic Dartzeel vs the Dark Knight The Tenors

I have been using the Tenors combo ( 350M/ preamps) for quite awhile and have had the change to have an extended home demo of the famous Dartzeel pre/power combo in 2008 before deciding which combo to use....ie dartzeels or the tenors.This was a time when I had got tired of listening pure solid state (started with reference levinson 32/33H) which would breathe only at higher volume and music was getting tiresome on prolonged listening

The only requirement was the system was to be in my livingspace to listen to music! and most listening was after 10.00pm at night and listening volume around 55 to 65 db on the spl meter

I must say the most magical midrange was from from the dartzeel combo so paid for it but did change my mind before the delivery.....and for some reason i wanted to try a pure tube amp/ hybrid and decided to go with the tenors....was a long program to have the combo come through......with first owning the tenors 350M power amps in 2009 ......followed by the tenor peamp in 2011( I think Jim FairHead has the first one made and I have 2nd) followed by the power amp upgrade to the 350 M HP....must say something worth waiting for and the magic in the link is the preamp!!

I did write a response to cor dekker thread in Audio " psychedellic trip on the stairway to heaven" which he had posted following a very special fine tunning weekend session in late august2013.........we did manage to compare some stellar power amps and the tenor preamps.......only in lighter vain!...hope the link comes through.....

Hi Jack hope you the upgraded VSA Vr11 system is up and running it all its glory

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0

bye for now from storm island
violetmachan
 
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JackD201

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Hi Doc V,

I'm still waiting for the 11s. The twins of your speakers are keeping me very good company though so I'm A-Ok :D
 

Violetmachan

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hi keith

If I was purely clinical on the reproduced sound...... between the dartzeel 108/18n combo: Kronzilla monoblocks with the tenor preamps and the tenor 350M HP monoblocks and the tenor preamps and scored them out of ten

Scores
1.dartzeel 108/18n combo...................................................................................7.5/10
2.Kronzilla monoblocks with the tenor preamps........................................................8.5/10
3.Tenor 350M HP monoblocks and the Tenor preamps...............................................9.5/10


The Dartzeel Combo 108/18n combo…these units were on an extended demo at home for a few weeks…..did have the best midrange ( but just wonderful midrange does not make it happen all the time).... I have ever heard at home……did nearly buy the combo……...but on prolonged demoing It could not drive the vr7se to its full potential especially in certain genre of music......note room and speaker was not optimised......and i am sure the dartzeel and vsa vr9se combo would have been stunning

The kronzilla's monoblock amps.........the thing that strikes you at first is the ease at which it plays music with loads of headroom and realism to hang onto…..most of all makes you to keep on listening to music and more music……....
Here there is a little resemblance to the sound of the Dartzeel combo with the midrange to die for plus lots more.....if you read my reply to cor thread started on audiocircle

Keith don`t forget the preamps that made the kronzilla monoblocks breathe and blossom were the tenors

during the listening session

"Moving to the third album for orchestral and Brass Bands

Glen Miller Orchestra “ In the digital mood”

1. “In the Mood” . Very realistic presentation close to toe tapping……this song , I have heard this song played live at the Edinburgh festival played by a military brass band…makes you want to get up and dance………its like a whirlpool slowly dragging you in to the finale which is stunning and will leave you happy and very satisfied!....".strangely that this did not happen"........probably needed a little more speed and bass slam from the kronzilla monoblocks…..to be in the mood!....this was immediately picked up by my neighbour david!!!.
well it may not have happened if we had our listening volume much higher @ 70 or 75 db..but!!"

The only negative ......I am sure its a minuscule handicap ….....which could be overcome by using 4 kronzilla DM monoblocks….ie two for each side......cor and albert tell me that a few of their american clients have done so....value for money its right on top!

Now for the tenor 350mHP monoblocks ( has in excess of 450watts on tap)along with the tenor preamps ….I must say one sterling pre power combo !!......I have no bias just because I own them ……For me the actual magic is the tenor preamps that makes the combo come alive

They are in a league of their own……very powerful ,very natural and real with magical speed and realism for all genre of music and one that keeps you” listening for hours and hours without the strain of listening to music “ and suddenly you have lost track of time!!!
............especially at my late evening listening volume of 18/55 to 60 spl level.......and the interaction with the room/living space the vsa vr9se mark 2, emmlabs xds1/eera tentation cd player and the Tenors/system as a whole really makes the magic happen in a room which seems to propagates wonderfully sound all over the room...…must say you do not have to be IN THE ZONE SWEET SPOT any more…....this special combo helps to fill the room with pure simple music.

I am sure in an esoteric setup you can change the way you percive sound and it is soooo subjective .......note a lot of the testing was done under suboptimal conditions of wonderful food a generous mix of a few englishmen, italians, dutchman and few aliens!!........especially under the influence of excess single malt!!.......but most of all.....listened to hours and hours of music!!!!!

so cheers keith

violetmachan
 
Last edited:

c1ferrari

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View attachment 13936 View attachment 13937 View attachment 13938 View attachment 13939 View attachment 13940 The organic Dartzeel vs the Dark Knight The Tenors

I have been using the Tenors combo ( 350M/ preamps) for quite awhile and have had the change to have an extended home demo of the famous Dartzeel pre/power combo in 2008 before deciding which combo to use....ie dartzeels or the tenors.This was a time when I had got tired of listening pure solid state (started with reference levinson 32/33H) which would breathe only at higher volume and music was getting tiresome on prolonged listening

The only requirement was the system was to be in my livingspace to listen to music! and most listening was after 10.00pm at night and listening volume around 55 to 65 db on the spl meter

I must say the most magical midrange was from from the dartzeel combo so paid for it but did change my mind before the delivery.....and for some reason i wanted to try a pure tube amp/ hybrid and decided to go with the tenors....was a long program to have the combo come through......with first owning the tenors 350M power amps in 2009 ......followed by the tenor peamp in 2011( I think Jim FairHead has the first one made and I have 2nd) followed by the power amp upgrade to the 350 M HP....must say something worth waiting for and the magic in the link is the preamp!!

I did write a response to cor dekker thread in Audio " psychellic trip on the stairway to heaven" which he had posted following a very special fine tunning weekend session in late august2013.........we did manage to compare some stellar power amps and the tenor preamps.......only in lighter vain!...hope the link comes through.....

Hi Jack hope you the upgraded VSA Vr11 system is up and running it all its glory

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0

bye for now from storm island
violetmachan

Heard the Tenor pre/amp and YG system at THE Show in Newport/Irvine. Excellent sound; albeit, there was some crackling/ringing.
I believe Bill Parish has the Tenor, on sale, presently. If I had the scratch, I'd make a visit ;-)
 

mep

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Heard the Tenor pre/amp and YG system at THE Show in Newport/Irvine. Excellent sound; albeit, there was some crackling/ringing.
I believe Bill Parish has the Tenor, on sale, presently. If I had the scratch, I'd make a visit ;-)

Uh, how can you have "excellent sound" with crackling/ringing?
 

c1ferrari

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Uh, how can you have "excellent sound" with crackling/ringing?

One had to be aware of it, i.e., crackling/ringing, which I initially was not. Timbre was excellent.
 

Violetmachan

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crackling/ringing....!

One had to be aware of it, i.e., crackling/ringing, which I initially was not. Timbre was excellent.

Hi c1ferrari

Well I have lived with the Tenor pre power combo for years and haven`t heard any crackling or ringing sound from them....as a matter of fact no crackling or ringing from any of the pre/power combo`s I have used. It is the quitest electronic/electrical device i have owned.

The levinson 33h had a very lowgrade hum.....which cleaned up with dedicated power supply


You may get a crackle and pop if the ec99 tube is begining to malfunction......but the system would shunt down very soon after the initial crackle

I am sure you must have heard something while visiting those demo rooms at the hifi shows.....well!
 

JackD201

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Have you tried rolling tubes Doc?

Try swapping the ecc99s with RCA 12bh7s. Yeah baby!
 

c1ferrari

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Hi c1ferrari

Well I have lived with the Tenor pre power combo for years and haven`t heard any crackling or ringing sound from them....as a matter of fact no crackling or ringing from any of the pre/power combo`s I have used. It is the quitest electronic/electrical device i have owned.

Greetings, Violetmachan,

Pleasure to make your acquaintance :D

My observation was advanced in the context of 'a system'.
I suspect the crackling (as described by my spouse) and ringing (as described by a well-seasoned audio friend), which were mentioned independently by either, emanated from the loudspeaker.
 

Violetmachan

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Feb 25, 2012
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tube rolling!

Have you tried rolling tubes Doc?

Try swapping the ecc99s with RCA 12bh7s. Yeah baby!

hi jack

I would love to try the RCA 12dh7s ......the process of ecc 99 swap in the tenor power is very tricky and a lot of calibration is needed to optimise the voltage......not sure if it's possible to tube swap

I presume it's easy to do the same with Lamm

needs to learn more may be.....

downside with me ......addicted to automation.....and I am a one click junky.....one of the reason I like the tenor setup is power switch activation brings the system into play

jack have you tried the eera autograph.....is it very different to the tentation

cheers
violetmachan
 

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