Why Tube Amps Sound Different (and better) Than SS Amps

Status
Not open for further replies.

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Now that I have your attention, I'm going to explain a theory for why tube amps sound different (and better) than SS from 40Hz and above. And 40Hz is somewhat arbitrary so don't get hung up on the exact bass frequency. The reason why tubes amps sound different than SS amps has been debated for many years and those that don't like tube amps usually cite distortion of one type or another to explain why people who like tube amps like tube amps.

For those that have at least a rudimentary understanding of electronics, you are familiar with Ohm's Law. With regards to power output, Ohm's Law is simply stated as P=IxE. For those that don't know the terms of this equation, "P" is power measured in watts. "I" is current measured in amperes, and "E" is voltage measured in volts. You can see by the formula that "P" doesn't care what combination of current and voltage exists because "P" will always equal the current times the voltage. However, Ohm's Law can only state that P=IxE. Ohm's Law can't tell you how those watts will sound, only that the watts are equal from a current times voltage perspective. And, there is a reason why its called "Ohm's Law" and not "Ohm's Best Guess." Ohm's Law has stood the test of time and is the backbone of how electronics are designed. Again, what Ohm's Law can't tell you is that two power amps that have the same power rating will sound the same. And they don't.

Many people realize that tube amps make their power with high voltage and low current and that SS amps make their power from high current and low voltage. I proffer that although a SS amp and a tube amp can have equal power output (and they can and do), they will not sound the same because of how that power output is created. Watts created from high voltage and low current sound different than watts created from high current and low voltage. David Manley actually should get credit for pointing this out to people who cared to read about it. David Manley wrote a book called the Vacuum Tube Logic book and he discussed how tube amps made their power from high voltage and they sound like it and the effect of using high voltage was readily audible. I personally would describe the difference in sound between tubes and SS as tubes sounding more live (more 'charged' with the energy of life) and thus more real and involving. It's another step closer to the microphone and away from the reproduction chain so to speak.

People often talk about how tube amps sound twice as powerful for a given output power rating than a SS amp does. We know from Ohm's Law that for a given output power, a tube amp can't be twice as powerful as a SS amp with the same output power rating. I think what people are really hearing is the effect (and sound) of watts that are created from high voltage. I'm specifically not talking about driving either amp into clipping and how tube amps behave differently than SS amps do (tubes tend to compress the top of the waveform and SS tends to shear off the top of the waveform when overdriven). I'm talking about operating both amps at a level that is within their output power capability and not driving them into clipping.

In order to give credit where credit is due for SS amps, we need to talk about the bottom two octaves. Many people are aware that the majority of subwoofers and large woofers sound their best when driven by SS amps due to the high current and high dampening factors of SS amps compared to tube amps. If you want iron fisted control over your large cone woofers that results in deep, tight, and accurate bass, that is really only going to come from the output of a SS amp. Tube amps can have decent bass, but I have never heard one that has great bass that extends to the bottom octave. Tube amps simply lack the current drive of SS amps as well as the high dampening factor of SS amps that most woofers need in order to sound their best.

In summary, there is a reason why some people prefer the sound of vacuum tube electronics over SS and I have tried to explain why I think it is so. It has everything to do with getting closer to the breath of life that creates music and nothing to do with loving distortions of various and sundry types that tube lovers are constantly accused of.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,432
681
1,430
From what I know, it all comes down to the harmonic signature of the 2 formats
Tubes = even order harmonics
SS= odd order

Some are more a tuned to the harmonics than others..
 

Ethan Winer

Banned
Jul 8, 2010
1,231
3
0
75
New Milford, CT
although a SS amp and a tube amp can have equal power output (and they can and do), they will not sound the same because of how that power output is created. Watts created from high voltage and low current sound different than watts created from high current and low voltage.

In the end all amps drive an 8 Ohm speaker. :D So unless you think Ohm's law is wrong, it's up to you to explain specifically how and why one I times E ratio "sounds different" than another. Given that Ohm's law is not wrong, and that the differences between tube amps, and between tube and solid state amps, are so easily measured using the standard parameters, we can safely conclude that those differences are merely frequency response, noise, and distortion. After all, what else is there?

--Ethan
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,349
2,730
1,400
Amsterdam holland
What else is there ?
A lot more then we yet know
We human beings are still figuring out what the universe is actually made off , with a 6 billion euro machine in CERN to name something , we don't even understand how gravity works at a fundamental level
In the end all amps drive an 8 Ohm speaker. :D So unless you think Ohm's law is wrong, it's up to you to explain specifically how and why one I times E ratio "sounds different" than another. Given that Ohm's law is not wrong, and that the differences between tube amps, and between tube and solid state amps, are so easily measured using the standard parameters, we can safely conclude that those differences are merely frequency response, noise, and distortion. After all, what else is there?

--Ethan
 
Last edited:

jazdoc

Member Sponsor
Aug 7, 2010
3,320
730
1,200
Bellevue
In the end all amps drive an 8 Ohm speaker. :D So unless you think Ohm's law is wrong, it's up to you to explain specifically how and why one I times E ratio "sounds different" than another. Given that Ohm's law is not wrong, and that the differences between tube amps, and between tube and solid state amps, are so easily measured using the standard parameters, we can safely conclude that those differences are merely frequency response, noise, and distortion. After all, what else is there?

--Ethan


--Why Does The World Exist?: An Existential Detective Story by Jim Holt (page 190)

"There is one aspect of reality that doesn't seem to have a place in this metaphysical picture: our own consciousness. Think of the way a pinch feels, a tangerine tastes, a cello sounds or the rosy dawn sky looks. Such qualitative experiences -- philosophers call them "qualia" (the plural of the Latin singular quale) -- have an inner nature that goes beoynd their role in the causal web. So, at least, philosophers like Thomas Nagel have argued. "The subjective features of conscious mental processes -- as opposed to their purely physical causes and effects-- cannot be captured by the purified form of thought suitable for dealing with the physical world that underlies appearances," Nagel writes. One way of making this point vivid is due to the Australian philosopher Frank jackson. Imagine, says Jackson, a scientist named Mary who knows everything there is to know about color: the neurobiological processes by which we perceive it, the physics of light, the composition of the spectrum, and so forth. But imagine further that Mary has lived her entire life in a black and white environment, that she has never actually seen a color herself. Despite her complete scientific understanding of color, there is something of which Mary is ignorant: what colors look like. She does not know what it is like to experience the color red. It follows that there is something to this experience -- something subjective and qualitative -- that is not captured by the objective, quantitative facts of science."
 
Last edited:

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Interesting conjecture, but unfortunately the flaw in reasoning is the V=IR as whatmore pointed out. Into the same loudspeaker, with the same impedance, there is no difference between a high-voltage power source or a high-current power source. Since the load (the loudspeaker is fixed), then P=I^2 * R.

What IS interesting though, is that the high voltage tube amp develops a low-current high-voltage signal into the output transformer. The output transformer then turns this into a low-voltage higher-current capability into a loudspeaker.

I think that many SS amps based on choke-based power supplies have the same characteristic midrange sound of tube amps (the Viola Bravo power amplifier is one such example), but they also have the bass capability of SS amps. In the Viola range, they also have another SS power amplifier (the Legacy) that has an output transformer which takes this tube sound one step further - using an output transformer. However, that model then loses the bass capability.

May be it has more to do with the output transformer than whether the amplifier generates the same power with high-voltage vs high-current (into the same load it cannot).
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
In the end all amps drive an 8 Ohm speaker. :D So unless you think Ohm's law is wrong, it's up to you to explain specifically how and why one I times E ratio "sounds different" than another. Given that Ohm's law is not wrong, and that the differences between tube amps, and between tube and solid state amps, are so easily measured using the standard parameters, we can safely conclude that those differences are merely frequency response, noise, and distortion. After all, what else is there?

--Ethan

I clearly stated my feelings regarding Ohm's Law and I also thought I clearly stated why I think those watts sound different. I don't need to be questioned if I think Ohm's Law is wrong because I clearly stated I believe in it. I also don't understand your statement that "In the end all amps drive an 8 ohm speaker." Speakers are anything but a pure 8 ohm load and there are lots of speakers with a nominal impedance of 4 ohms. What makes you think that watts that are derived from high voltage and low current will sound exactly like watts that are derived from low voltage and high current? You need to go back and reread what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth that I didn't utter.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Interesting conjecture, but unfortunately the flaw in reasoning is the V=IR as whatmore pointed out. Into the same loudspeaker, with the same impedance, there is no difference between a high-voltage power source or a high-current power source. Since the load (the loudspeaker is fixed), then P=I^2 * R.

What IS interesting though, is that the high voltage tube amp develops a low-current high-voltage signal into the output transformer. The output transformer then turns this into a low-voltage higher-current capability into a loudspeaker.

I think that many SS amps based on choke-based power supplies have the same characteristic midrange sound of tube amps (the Viola Bravo power amplifier is one such example), but they also have the bass capability of SS amps. In the Viola range, they also have another SS power amplifier (the Legacy) that has an output transformer which takes this tube sound one step further - using an output transformer. However, that model then loses the bass capability.

May be it has more to do with the output transformer than whether the amplifier generates the same power with high-voltage vs high-current (into the same load it cannot).

Gary-I'm referring to how the watts are created in the amplifier. Yes, tube amps that use an output transformer do change the high voltage/low current to a lower voltage and higher current and step down the impedance. However, tube amps never have the output current capability of SS amps. The watts of power that leave the plate of a vacuum tube on their way to the output transformer are fundamentally different watts than the watts created by a SS amp. David Manley (may his soul rest in peace) knew a thing or two about how to design tube amplifiers and how they work. I agree with the conclusions that David Manley drew about tube watts sounding different.

And yes, Tom, David Manley had a legacy of having really good output transformers. The original VTL ratio for where to set their ultralinear point on the output transformer was different than the ration specified by Hafler I do believe. David Manley was also a big believer in having beefy power supplies with SS rectifiers so that he could extract the best bass quality he could from his amp designs. As for my monoblocks, are you referring the Dynaco MKIII amps that are laying in a zillion pieces right now?
 

esldude

New Member
I used to own some VTL trioded amps. Did a little experiment. I also had a Spectral DMA50. I loaded the VTL with a power resistor, and tapped the output with some divider resistors so the whole thing was exactly unity gain. Fed that into the Spectral. Feeding Quad ESL-63's.

My purpose was to figure out how much was lost in the VTL, which I considered the better amp. It had more space, 3d effects, smoother, more dynamic, more nuanced, more musical. The Spectral was a good sounding SS amp, but not equal to the VTL. The Spectral was subjectively about 2/3 as good as the VTL. I wondered if the VTL let 99% of the music through or 50%. So I thought taking it in and out of circuit I could get a handle on how much better things could get. Or if the VTL left little on the table.

I did not expect to fire that series arrangement up and hear the Spectral sound exactly like the VTL. Which is what happened. The spacious dynamic musical 3D sound issued forth from the Spectral amp. I later reversed position of the amps, and you could put the Spectral in or out and hear no difference. The wonderful sound of the VTL was a euphonic coloration. The Spectral could exactingly reproduce those effects if fed the right signal.

I switched a few times, listened over days. In time I did find the sound with the VTL feeding the Spectral balanced a little different than just the VTL. Bass was a bit less, and treble a touch less. I knew from measurements the output impedance of the tube amp interacted with the Quad's to raise the lower couple octaves a bit, and a resonance in the output transformer at 26 khz raised the top octave some too. Over time those were audible, but not obvious. Otherwise the Spectral could fully mimic the wonderful coloration of the VTL triode amp. So much for tube amp superiority.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
esldude-Which VTL triode amp did you have? Hard to believe that an amp that you thought was clearly better than the Spectral ("more space, 3d effects, smoother, more dynamic, more nuanced, more musical") was suddenly regulated to the scrapheap of euphonic colorations due to your bypass test. So how was it that you were fooled and believed in the superiority of the VTL over the Spectral amp?
 

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2011
65
10
315
Tubes are different - but definitely NOT better

Sigh... So here is my view of this matter (and do remember - I have an MS in science and worked for 27 years as an engineer and then TAUGHT engineering for 10 years at SMU and UTD). For the record - I have had several different tube amplifiers starting with some Dyna ST-70 amps - which I completely rebuilt and mildly modified - rather successfully (mono-block arrangement). Later I had Quicksilver mono-blocs - but I am hear to tell you - I much prefer the sound of a well built solid state amplifier (Class A or A-B) - no contest to these ears. For I hear a well designed solid state amp as much truer to the recording - while I feel that a tube amp is hardly short of a distortion factory. NO class D is allowed on the premises (another story).

No - I think any reasonable person will agree that tube amplifiers do NOT sound like transistor amplifiers. This is more or less a given.

From the standpoint of our own Roger Sanders (a reasonable and experienced person) the difference between the two approaches is attributable solely to the way the two different amplifiers "clip" (see the whitepaper on same at his "Sanders sound" website). The tube has a "cloud" of electrons around its plate and thus, even when overdriven can respond more gracefully than the transistor approach which, in most cases, effectively "crowbars" and shuts down when overdriven (even if only for micro-seconds).

I do NOT agree with Roger in this matter.

What I believe the clear sound difference can be attributed to is based on the following;

1) A "hollow state" device can switch high voltages 'faster' than a tube can switch high currents. I know this was true in the '90s as I worked on a missile that had a transmitter (active homing) and we originally had a solid state radar frequency amplifier - this tech did not work and we went with tubes. Yes. This missile is called an AMRAAM. Go look it up. Apparently transistors (of some stripe I am not sure if bipolar of FET) have been sufficiently advanced that modern radars use transistors exclusively - but then again most modern military radars are phase-arrays so the power requirements for each transmission element is rather low - or at least much lower than in single aperture radars.

So the increased switching speed available with a tube device may be a contributor to the different sound. Quick - not unlike live music. All that current sloshing around within a bipolar transistor tends to make the device slow (which maybe why our genius solid state guys - like Nelson Pass - do NOT use bipolar silicon but instead work with FETs (much higher voltage across the device).

2) The biggest difference is that huge chunk of iron sitting on the output of your tube amplifier - that transformer which translates those high voltages into high currents for use by the speaker motors. Transformers, like it or not, ring like a bell. That is to say when a transformer is hit with a change in applied voltage it actually works to induce a voltage of the opposite polarity - di/dt - fact of life folks. Transformers resist, in a very active and known sense AC changes.

Not only does the transformer create a very non-linear response to changing voltages a transformer is NOT linear in its time response to a changing voltage. To tune a transformer "up" (increase voltage) proceeds much more quickly than to tune a transformer "down" (lower the voltage). I would estimate by a factor of 3 dB (double the time).

This non-linear response of a transformer, coupled with the massive EMF "kickback" associated with large speaker motor means that most tube amps produce a very pleasant distortion that closely resembles the sound of "slap echo" that is heard in any large concert hall (particularly in my local concert hall - the Meyerson in Dallas - very pronounced slap echo, i.e. you can hear the echo from the walls of the hall - slight, and very close in time to the incident signal but nevertheless very real as it is outside the Haas effect window). The EMF kickback - as it crosses the coils of the transformer AND the non-linear response of the output transformer to a changing voltage means that the sound tends to be more than a bit "ringy" - which is EXACTLY the sound of a real un-amplified instrument played in a real concert size hall.

Hence the "tube heads" think they are getting "better" sound - but what they are actually getting is a "ring" that is nothing more than a distortion. Is this ringy sound pleasant? Of course, especially if you are playing symphonic music through some high quality speakers. More so if your speakers are somewhat "lean and thin" sounding - particularly like a Martin-Logan electrostat (or ANY electrostat save a big SoundLab). The tubes "put some flesh" on the sound - but what those precious tubes are doing is ringing like a church bell at a drunken wedding.

So we are back at the fact that the attraction of a tube amplifier is about its woeful non-linearity and the complete inability of a coupling transformer to respond in a linear matter to changing AC voltages.

Sorry guys - if you like tubes, their heat, their lack of power, their utter lack of reliability - then I say knock yourself out. But don't come around here and try to tell me that "tubes" are better.

If you want a pleasant distortion - go get one of those QoL thingies.

Proceed to nuke me.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Sigh... So here is my view of this matter (and do remember - I have an MS in science and worked for 27 years as an engineer and then TAUGHT engineering for 10 years at SMU and UTD). For the record - I have had several different tube amplifiers starting with some Dyna ST-70 amps - which I completely rebuilt and mildly modified - rather successfully (mono-block arrangement). Later I had Quicksilver mono-blocs - but I am hear to tell you - I much prefer the sound of a well built solid state amplifier (Class A or A-B) - no contest to these ears. For I hear a well designed solid state amp as much truer to the recording - while I feel that a tube amp is hardly short of a distortion factory. NO class D is allowed on the premises (another story).

No - I think any reasonable person will agree that tube amplifiers do NOT sound like transistor amplifiers. This is more or less a given.

From the standpoint of our own Roger Sanders (a reasonable and experienced person) the difference between the two approaches is attributable solely to the way the two different amplifiers "clip" (see the whitepaper on same at his "Sanders sound" website). The tube has a "cloud" of electrons around its plate and thus, even when overdriven can respond more gracefully than the transistor approach which, in most cases, effectively "crowbars" and shuts down when overdriven (even if only for micro-seconds).

I do NOT agree with Roger in this matter.

What I believe the clear sound difference can be attributed to is based on the following;

1) A "hollow state" device can switch high voltages 'faster' than a tube can switch high currents. I know this was true in the '90s as I worked on a missile that had a transmitter (active homing) and we originally had a solid state radar frequency amplifier - this tech did not work and we went with tubes. Yes. This missile is called an AMRAAM. Go look it up. Apparently transistors (of some stripe I am not sure if bipolar of FET) have been sufficiently advanced that modern radars use transistors exclusively - but then again most modern military radars are phase-arrays so the power requirements for each transmission element is rather low - or at least much lower than in single aperture radars.

So the increased switching speed available with a tube device may be a contributor to the different sound. Quick - not unlike live music. All that current sloshing around within a bipolar transistor tends to make the device slow (which maybe why our genius solid state guys - like Nelson Pass - do NOT use bipolar silicon but instead work with FETs (much higher voltage across the device).

2) The biggest difference is that huge chunk of iron sitting on the output of your tube amplifier - that transformer which translates those high voltages into high currents for use by the speaker motors. Transformers, like it or not, ring like a bell. That is to say when a transformer is hit with a change in applied voltage it actually works to induce a voltage of the opposite polarity - di/dt - fact of life folks. Transformers resist, in a very active and known sense AC changes.

Not only does the transformer create a very non-linear response to changing voltages a transformer is NOT linear in its time response to a changing voltage. To tune a transformer "up" (increase voltage) proceeds much more quickly than to tune a transformer "down" (lower the voltage). I would estimate by a factor of 3 dB (double the time).

This non-linear response of a transformer, coupled with the massive EMF "kickback" associated with large speaker motor means that most tube amps produce a very pleasant distortion that closely resembles the sound of "slap echo" that is heard in any large concert hall (particularly in my local concert hall - the Meyerson in Dallas - very pronounced slap echo, i.e. you can hear the echo from the walls of the hall - slight, and very close in time to the incident signal but nevertheless very real as it is outside the Haas effect window). The EMF kickback - as it crosses the coils of the transformer AND the non-linear response of the output transformer to a changing voltage means that the sound tends to be more than a bit "ringy" - which is EXACTLY the sound of a real un-amplified instrument played in a real concert size hall.

Hence the "tube heads" think they are getting "better" sound - but what they are actually getting is a "ring" that is nothing more than a distortion. Is this ringy sound pleasant? Of course, especially if you are playing symphonic music through some high quality speakers. More so if your speakers are somewhat "lean and thin" sounding - particularly like a Martin-Logan electrostat (or ANY electrostat save a big SoundLab). The tubes "put some flesh" on the sound - but what those precious tubes are doing is ringing like a church bell at a drunken wedding.

So we are back at the fact that the attraction of a tube amplifier is about its woeful non-linearity and the complete inability of a coupling transformer to respond in a linear matter to changing AC voltages.

Sorry guys - if you like tubes, their heat, their lack of power, their utter lack of reliability - then I say knock yourself out. But don't come around here and try to tell me that "tubes" are better.

If you want a pleasant distortion - go get one of those QoL thingies.

Proceed to nuke me.

If you think the ML are lean, then they've not been setup properly. And yes with amps from both species.

And how do you then explain OTLs have the same tube characteristics? And even the best SS amps today, retrieve spatial information like tubes. So is that a distortion? It's there on the master tapes and hard discs, be they analog or digital.

Reliability. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Maybe tubes 20 years ago, but not modern gear. For the record, I've used cj tube amps since the mid-80s and had one problem - a resistor blowing- in a 7 yo MV-75A1. Even 7yo Krells developed issues (and solid-state - contrary to your assertations - is far from problem free.)So no, your sweeping generalization is dead wrong. It's not the genre, it's the execution.
 
Last edited:

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
If you think the ML are lean, then they've not been setup properly. And yes with amps from both species.

And how do you then explain OTLs have the same tube characteristics?

Reliability. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Maybe tubes 20 years ago, but not modern gear. For the record, I've used cj tube amps since the mid-80s and had one problem - a resistor blowing- in a 7 yo MV-75A1. Even 7yo Krells developed issues (and solid-state - contrary to your assertations - is far from problem free.)So no, your sweeping generalization is dead wrong. It's not the genre, it's the execution.

I don't hear slap-echo through tube amps either nor "ringing like a church bell at a drunken wedding" (?). But remember, this is the same guy that claims to be a radar expert and claimed the Aegis SPY radar is all SS.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Mark,

I have read the Vacuum Tube Logic book in the early 90's and after some one borrowed it from me and forgot to return it, I got the second edition. I still read it occasionally in my free time when I am not reading the the famous Toole book ... ;)

It happens that your starting post is severely distorting the points expressed by David Manley in his book, mainly by omission, but unfortunately to a point they can become impossible to support in a debate. The key formula for this explanation is energy of a power supply (E=CxVxV/2) in Joules and its voltage regulation versus frequency. Unfortunately I do not have the time to summarize it, and as the book is copyright of VTL, we can not post a scan of it - this subject starts at page 51 of the second edition.

The thread should be read remembering that VTL tube amplifiers use very high voltage in their power amplifiers - around 600V and purpose built capacitors. And yes, off the record, my old VTL MB750 sounded great and powerful.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
You may be right Micro. It has been quite some time since I have read David's book. I remember the talk about joules, but I thought that was to show how much energy his power supplies were storing and why VTL amps had very good bass in their day. I will have to look up the comment he made about tube watts to see how far off the mark I am. He may have been referring to his amps and not tube amps in general. It doesn't change the fact that tube watts are high voltage/low current watts until after the output transformer.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Given that I've hear both tubes and solid state sound both harsh and smooth, flat and spacious, sloppy and controlled, I'm inclined to believe that it is the combination of these two things:

1. design and execution

2. how a particular amplifier will perform matched with any specific speaker
 

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
1,709
406
405
Amps sound different due to design differences, layout, parts used, etc. At a certain level, whether one sounds better than another is probably mostly subjective. Only in a tangential manner is Ohm's Law applicable. Ohm's Law applies to a DC circuit, while amps consist of AC circuits.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,678
4,467
963
Greater Boston
but I am hear to tell you - I much prefer the sound of a well built solid state amplifier (Class A or A-B) - no contest to these ears. For I hear a well designed solid state amp as much truer to the recording - while I feel that a tube amp is hardly short of a distortion factory. NO class D is allowed on the premises (another story).

No - I think any reasonable person will agree that tube amplifiers do NOT sound like transistor amplifiers. This is more or less a given.

Well, it depends, and perhaps I am not a reasonable person ;)

Recently I had the Spectral DMA 260 (with Spectral pre-amp) in my system, and I was surprised how similar it sounded to my Audio Innovations Second Audio 2A3 triode monoblocks that had been improved with extensive modifications over the years. They were very similar in micro-dynamics (a big complement to the Spectral, since in that area good tube amps are usually king), in macro-dynamics (a compliment to my tube amps; both amps played at loud volume), in resolution, soundstage (presentation and depth), rhythm & timing, and in overall tonal balance and timbre. Yes, there were a few timbral differences but these were minor. I am convinced in a blind test I would not have been able to pick the two amps apart (at least, I did not have the Spectral long enough in my system to hammer out subtle differences more firmly).

That was before the latest upgrade of my amps with external power supplies which greatly enhanced resolution due to removal of electronic noise (or rather, lack of generation of electronic noise compared to the internal power supplies of my amps). I would be curious how the Spectral now would compare to that; again, I did not have it in my system for a sufficiently long time to be certain at this point. I did not listen with it extensively to all the material where I now know the external power supplies to make a big difference with my amps.

By the way, long before that comparison several people who have heard my system have commented that my amps "don't sound like tube amps".
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing