Cello/King Repro for my Studer

Mike Lavigne said:

no not really. 15ips master dubs won't necessarily always be clearly better than the very best vinyl versions played on absolutely top level vinyl gear. it would depend on the performance of the RTR deck and output electronics. vinyl can sound awesome. you are talking about an $80k vinyl front end verses maybe a $3k-$5k RTR deck.

i've heard Tape Project tapes on good but not great RTR decks in shows that mostly don't attain my Rockport level vinyl performance on 45's. not every Tape Project tape; but some of them. and with the stock output on my Studer some of those tapes were closely approached (or equaled) in performance by the Rockport on 45's.

but no more. with the Cello, my Studer with 15ips performance has leaped to a notch beyond any vinyl. there is not any area where the vinyl has an advantage.

remember; the software advantage of tape must be able to immerge intact through the muck of a 30+ year old transistor signal path full of all sorts of nasty stuff.....and have enough life left to beat the pure signal path of a state-of-the-art phono stage.

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Hi Mike,
Well I meant with all things being equal!!! I can see where you are going with your point $80000 vs $3-5000 but, one would expect that.

Jay

Mike,
The statement I made about all things being equal is just a blanket statement, I wasn't trying to be real technical!!!

Jay

Mike Lavigne said:

Charles King will be passing thru the Seattle area in july and stopping for a visit. i may have him switch out the 2 main caps for the Mundorfs at that time. it's hard to imagine it sounding better than what i'm now hearing but who knows?

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Ummmm...if you're creaming over the sound now, leave a little room for dessert!

Well all this talk about Charles's new toy is making me wonder a bit, I would love to audition one of these unit's in my systen!!!

Jay

Hi Jay:

Rich Brown and Charles King visited me two weeks ago with the tape head preamp. We used Rich's direct head wired C270 mostly and played the same tapes on my A820 with all factory electronics. I am not sure if it was all from the outboard preamp or from the Nortronics repro head on C270 but clearly there were improvements in the sonics through the King/Cello electronics.

I am sure Charles would send you one for you to audition it in your set up. Matter of fact, Chalres had offered to leave the one he brought that day with me - with high confidence that all of his previous loaner preamps had never made it back to him... However, I was about to go on another overseas trip and none of my recorders are wired for it for now ... so I had to pass on his offer.

Ki

Hi Ki,
It's been awhile how are you? I trust you are good, send me an email with the latest on the record cleaner. I may just have to get in touch with Charles and ask him if a loaner is available!!!

Jay

Presently I have his loaner in my system for evaluation. i finally had my switch done this week by a fellow that Larry Toy (astrotoy) used. Incredibly perfect job he did. Certainly a big difference going from the stock Studer to bypass and use the CK head amp.

Well I got the machine home on Thursday and finally got to listen for all of an hour as I am with my wife this weekend in Carmel/Monterey so wont be able to listen until tommorow. Initial observations are a far more dynamic, better midrange and high end, an apparently better defined soundstage and clearly a better bottom end. With respect to the bottom end however , although diferent, it sounded slightly bloated to me. I havent had a chance to relisten but further thoughts tomorrow. One of the issues that I have with the unit is the use of coupling capacitors at least the output caps. I know some have upgraded to Mundorf and Myles even recommended Dualund copper caps. In researching the matter re coupling caps as well as talking to Charles he says that the output coupling caps can be removed and are there as a comfort blanket to him in protecting the tape heads. However several have bought this unit without the output coupling caps and it works just fine. I also spoke to Rich Brown (U-47) yesterday about the issue and he told me that someone is running the CK with no input OR output caps and it performs just fine.

BTW if anyone living in the SF Bay area and is looking to add a bypass switch on their machine for the sake of preserving the original stock components and to use a head amp pleas e PM me. I looked all over and short of bringing Ki Choi to the SF Bay area to do mine, I finally was turned onto this gentleman who did an absolutely professional job on my unit. He inserted a circuit into my Studer which he designed which with a flick of the switch allows me to either run stock Studer or the head amp.


Darn i miss those VU meters moving however when in the bypass mode

Mike, i know you eliminated the output coupling caps to allow for the DartZeel 50 ohm connection and you suggested also that the sound is better without those output caps

Stay tuned

King/Cello and various heads

Hi Guys
I'm on the east coast for another week. Hope to bring the King/Cello to Ki's place in late August, so that we can compare the Nortronics to the Studer 820 heads and possibly the Nagra T audio heads. Ki said the T Audio is very easy to adapt to the King/Cello. We also might try it with the Sony 5003 as a transport. Charlie has found the Studer 800(810,812, 820) playback head to be about equal in quality to the Nortronics head. I would agree with him on this.
The Nagra T head does seem to work magnificently with the Tube Repro electronics. It will be interesting to see how it works with King/Cello.
My hypothesis is that the lowly and beat upon ex-Everclear Revox C-270(about $200 value) with King/Cello handily beats out stock Studer 820. Heads and electronics trump transport by far IMO.

Kara should have her revised high gain preamp ready to demo in two weeks as well. She reported a nice reception to it at the Dagogo show last weekend. Her preamp got a nice write up on the Stereophile blog a few days ago.

Rich Brown
Portland, Oregon

Mike Lavigne said:

Hey Ki,

if you are in town come on over and check out the King Cello on the A-820. and while you're at it, maybe you can wire a switch on my Ampex ATR-102 so we can fairly compare the 2 decks.

BTW; i have both the MRL alignment tape and the Tape Project alignment tape if you want to measure with the King/Cello in and out of the circuit.

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Hi Mike:

sorry for the late response. Yes, it would be interesting to get your ATR-102 to be modified so that it can be used with the outboard preamp. Maybe it will force you to use the ATR more since I have not witness you playing or recording with the ATR machine before. ;-)
For a change I am in town this and next week. Let's get together.

Ki

Mike Lavigne said:

great! i'll e-mail you and whenever it works for you let's do it. i do have an Audio Club meeting at my home this Thursday and my system will be torn up for a day or so when i install my Equitech wall panel for my room.....which could be anytime in the next 10 days.

you are right about the Ampex. the ATR-102 has sat there idle mostly because i do not have the expertise to switch around the EQ. with the switch installed and using the King Cello i won't need to switch EQ on the ATR.

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Mike, I am curious as to if you tried the Cello/King on the ATR 102 and, if so, how you would compare the ATR+Cello King to the standard ATR electroncis, and to the Studer with the Cello/King.