H3000 - unimpressed so far - what am I missing?

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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The Allnic units use gold plated tube sockets with gel impregnation. In many older nuvistor products, the sockets would corrode as well as the pins. I think the pins of nuvistors make them much more sensitive to corrosion because of the small sizes. Some of the nuvistors come with very long leads that look like they were intended to be directly soldered, and that may be the best way to assure corrosion free contact and low noise longevity.

As stated, if they get noisy in the Allnic, the tube sockets won't be to blame and my own experience is that cleaning the pins and using a dash of contact enhancer quiets them right down again. I have had the unit for several years now.

The nuvistors right out of the box need to be cleaned and treated before insertion, or are you are going to have some noisy fireworks when plugging them in new.

If was the sockets, why did replacing the nuvistor work? Or why moving the nuvistor in and out of the socket a few times didn't result in the noise going away? So doubt it was the socket.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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If was the sockets, why did replacing the nuvistor work? Or why moving the nuvistor in and out of the socket a few times didn't result in the noise going away? So doubt it was the socket.

Have no idea, only what I read on the blogosphere and my own experiences i.e. cleaning the pins with the Allnic unit works for the tubes I have used with it.

Original nuvistor tubes: over time, left channel became noisy, noise followed tube when exchanging left to right, cleaning pins cured noise. New nuvistors: extremely noisy and poppy putting in without cleaning, cleaning made them quiet on insertion, a couple of samples. Also, my experience with sockets is that just putting tubes in and pulling them out did not necessarily always cure their noise problems if they had them.

Whether particular nuvistors have element degradation or not causing noise, I don't know, my suspicion is still that the corroding brass pins and the old style sockets play a role in much of the noise complaints. If things change, I will report it as such. I think there are reports somewhere of very old nuvistor i.e. tape units, preamps maintain quality of sound, but I would be curious as to whether they were soldered or socketed, don't ask for details as this is from memory and I don't remember unit names. I gather that the Ampex nuvistor tape recorders held up, but there are not that many of them around to generalize.

If you don't like nuvistors, just don't use them, but I think they need more than the usual tube hygiene to work their best over time and I think they are well employed in the Allnic head amp.

Good nuvistors are supposed to be nearly eternal in audio component terms, but even if you had to replace them once or twice a year, they aren't that expensive compared the usual run of high end tubes or items.
 
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drunkenrabbit

New Member
Dec 1, 2013
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Guys
I know you all love your H3000's and more power to you. I'm not trashing anyone, or questioning anyone's buying decision's.

I'm speaking from my direct experience after ponying up nearly $17,000 to buy into the Allnic brand. My conclusion...I just didn't think the H3000 or the T2000 were that good and the build quality was very average. But I guess that is what makes the audiophile world go around eh...we all have different ears, systems, likes and dislikes etc etc

BTW my unit had plenty of hours on it - well over a hundred and twenty. As for products that "need" hundreds and hundreds of hours on them before they sound good - sorry for me - not interested. The idea of spending 12k on a product and then needing to wait 6 months for it to sound half reasonable doesn't appeal.

Oh and I thought an Ypislon SUT I tried into the MM input of the H3000 was much better than the SUT's onboard the Allnic. Just.plain.better.

Anyways I'll butt out of the Allnic thread and wish you all the best.

Cheerio
Andrew
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Guys
I know you all love your H3000's and more power to you. I'm not trashing anyone, or questioning anyone's buying decision's.

I'm speaking from my direct experience after ponying up nearly $17,000 to buy into the Allnic brand. My conclusion...I just didn't think the H3000 or the T2000 were that good and the build quality was very average. But I guess that is what makes the audiophile world go around eh...we all have different ears, systems, likes and dislikes etc etc

BTW my unit had plenty of hours on it - well over a hundred and twenty. As for products that "need" hundreds and hundreds of hours on them before they sound good - sorry for me - not interested. The idea of spending 12k on a product and then needing to wait 6 months for it to sound half reasonable doesn't appeal.

Oh and I thought an Ypislon SUT I tried into the MM input of the H3000 was much better than the SUT's onboard the Allnic. Just.plain.better.

Anyways I'll butt out of the Allnic thread and wish you all the best.

Cheerio
Andrew

Uhh... Andrew, what high-end component, whether they use interstage coupling transformers, SUTs, exotic caps, doesn't need at least 500 hrs? Put ARC, cj, Doshi, etc on the list. Ok maybe some SS units might take a little less time.

Oh and buy a reverse RIAA disc (or its equivalent) and break your phono section in. Ergo, 2-3 weeks and the unit is ready to go.

Also, I don't have any particular bias; have had many phono sections here. Just doesn't jibe with my observations. Of course the other explanation was that something was wrong with the unit, a tube or something was damaged in shipping, etc. I assume the meters on the front indicated the tubes were good?
 

ALF

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Mar 15, 2012
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Uhh... Andrew, what high-end component, whether they use interstage coupling transformers, SUTs, exotic caps, doesn't need at least 500 hrs? Put ARC, cj, Doshi, etc on the list. Ok maybe some SS units might take a little less time.

Oh and buy a reverse RIAA disc (or its equivalent) and break your phono section in. Ergo, 2-3 weeks and the unit is ready to go.

Also, I don't have any particular bias; have had many phono sections here. Just doesn't jibe with my observations. Of course the other explanation was that something was wrong with the unit, a tube or something was damaged in shipping, etc. I assume the meters on the front indicated the tubes were good?

Hi Miles,

Yes, those brands do require many centuries of hours to come together, well, not "right now :)." It can be a humorous and somewhat difficult task to explain to someone outside of the hobby that we are not simply falling under the spell of a confirmation bias. I might be somewhat biased; however, you can fall head-over-hills in love with a Lamm LP2 Deluxe phonostage with the 31dB SUT in a matter of a couple of decades of hours "burn-in" and not even having to look for a tube to blame. I used to have the CJ ARTlll/LP140M combo, CJ does really well with this Lammie phono sitting in the forefront of the CJ chain...

Cheers!
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Northern NY
Have no idea, only what I read on the blogosphere and my own experiences i.e. cleaning the pins with the Allnic unit works for the tubes I have used with it.

Original nuvistor tubes: over time, left channel became noisy, noise followed tube when exchanging left to right, cleaning pins cured noise. New nuvistors: extremely noisy and poppy putting in without cleaning, cleaning made them quiet on insertion, a couple of samples. Also, my experience with sockets is that just putting tubes in and pulling them out did not necessarily always cure their noise problems if they had them.

Whether particular nuvistors have element degradation or not causing noise, I don't know, my suspicion is still that the corroding brass pins and the old style sockets play a role in much of the noise complaints. If things change, I will report it as such. I think there are reports somewhere of very old nuvistor i.e. tape units, preamps maintain quality of sound, but I would be curious as to whether they were soldered or socketed, don't ask for details as this is from memory and I don't remember unit names. I gather that the Ampex nuvistor tape recorders held up, but there are not that many of them around to generalize.

If you don't like nuvistors, just don't use them, but I think they need more than the usual tube hygiene to work their best over time and I think they are well employed in the Allnic head amp.

Good nuvistors are supposed to be nearly eternal in audio component terms, but even if you had to replace them once or twice a year, they aren't that expensive compared the usual run of high end tubes or items.

I have a noisy left channel nuvistor...sputtering. I did the channel switch and the noise moved to the other channel. How do you clean the pins Carl ? A q-tip seems too big. I put another set in and the left channel has some intermittent pop. It seems to be subsiding as it is warming up over time. I am interested in your pin clean procedure. I love the sound of tubes, but quite frankly, they are a bit of a pain in the ass when things like this go on. Comes with the territory I guess.
 

Bruce B

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I have a noisy left channel nuvistor...sputtering. I did the channel switch and the noise moved to the other channel. How do you clean the pins Carl ? A q-tip seems too big. I put another set in and the left channel has some intermittent pop. It seems to be subsiding as it is warming up over time. I am interested in your pin clean procedure. I love the sound of tubes, but quite frankly, they are a bit of a pain in the ass when things like this go on. Comes with the territory I guess.

Use pipe cleaners to clean the sockets
 

audioarcher

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May 6, 2012
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I have a noisy left channel nuvistor...sputtering. I did the channel switch and the noise moved to the other channel. How do you clean the pins Carl ? A q-tip seems too big. I put another set in and the left channel has some intermittent pop. It seems to be subsiding as it is warming up over time. I am interested in your pin clean procedure. I love the sound of tubes, but quite frankly, they are a bit of a pain in the ass when things like this go on. Comes with the territory I guess.

Magic Eraser is great for cleaning tube pins. You can just push the pins into it several times, and their good as new. Should work for nuvistors as well.
 

rockitman

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Use pipe cleaners to clean the sockets

too big. The Nuvistor tube sockets are new and gold plated. The pins are about as thick as a dress shirt stick pin and close together. I need 5x magnification to get a good look. Regular Glass tubes are much bigger and easier to deal with.
 

cjfrbw

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Well, like I said, brushing them with one of those metal diamond nail files with very fine grit did the trick for the nuvistors I have, with standard deoxit contact enhancer after. I suppose you could also just scrape them lightly with a blade. Magic Eraser is great for cleaning cartridge needles, don't know about nuvistor pins, I think I would prefer something more abrasive like the nail file.

I have read that some of the pros who have used nuvistors in microphones have stated that buying three pairs to get one pair that is really low noise and long lasting is not unusual for that application. However, I have no knowledge of the socketing etc. for the microphones involved.

I have about five pairs of various types now, but have only used two, with a brief insertion of a third pair. My noise problems cleared up with cleaning. Also, noise problems with the initial insertion cleared up with cleaning.

I suppose more commentary from experience might be useful. Buying several pairs of nuvistors to find a "good" pair might be a pain, but not really that costly when you think of what they are asking for telefunken 12ax7 these days. My original pair went low noise after cleaning, the yellow label sylvanias did very well with cleaning and have so far for several months without degradation.

I like the "hybrid sound" of the green label nuvistors i.e. sound like an ideal combo of solid state and tube, but the yellow label sylvanias sound "all tube" with little solid state character per se. I feel lucky to have happened upon the yellow label ones because I like the enhanced tubey character.
 
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DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Reading what MF says about the Allnic in the recommended components section ( which ranks the Allnic as class A?? ) it states: "The H3000 excelled at textural production and musical flow, but lacked definition, transparency and transient refinement producing a slightly soft, loose overall sound"
IMO, IF a product lacks definition, transparency and transient refinement then something is VERY wrong. Listening to music with little definition and poor transients is no better than listening to a mid 70's pocket radio, LOL.
So to the OP, I would say that the Allnic 3000 ( based on MF's description) is a flawed product that I wouldn't want in my system at ANY price! For Stereophile to place it in the Class A section is extremely odd and simply re-enforces the fact that before we BUY any gear it should be listened to in our own systems first.
 
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cjfrbw

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so I take it the pins are pretty stiff ? I wasn't sure they could take that file pressure and not bend like thin wire.

Gently. They can take a bit.
 

Lotus

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Jun 22, 2013
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Reading what MF says about the Allnic in the recommended components section ( which ranks the Allnic as class A?? ) it states: "The H3000 excelled at textural production and musical flow, but lacked definition, transparency and transient refinement producing a slightly soft, loose overall sound"
IMO, IF a product lacks definition, transparency and transient refinement then something is VERY wrong. Listening to music with little definition and poor transients is no better than listening to a mid 70's pocket radio, LOL.
So to the OP, I would say that the Allnic 7000 ( based on MF's description) is a flawed product that I wouldn't want in my system at ANY price! For Stereophile to place it in the Class A section is extremely odd and simply re-enforces the fact that before we BUY any gear it should be listened to in our own systems first.

The thing is, one man's defined/firm/tight is another mans hard/etched/mechanical etc..

If you want more of those things then you can use the Allnic head amp in conjunction. For me it takes it to another level altogether.

That said, many customers in the USA prefer the H3000 without the head amp. Proof that not everyone seeks what MF seeks and that things like flow, naturalness and expression can be ultimate endpoints in themselves.

As you say, listen yourself and then decide.
 
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cjfrbw

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I do gather that MF prefers audiophile skeleton type sound i.e. very large point source imaging, on the bright side, lots of leading edge definition unobscured by tone, dry bass, mellifluousness need not apply.

It's a fairly standard sound that you hear at audio show displays, and there is nothing wrong with it if you like it that way. For me, it is lacking a bit in gestalt.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I do gather that MF prefers audiophile skeleton type sound i.e. very large point source imaging, on the bright side, lots of leading edge definition unobscured by tone, dry bass, mellifluousness need not apply.

It's a fairly standard sound that you hear at audio show displays, and there is nothing wrong with it if you like it that way. For me, it is lacking a bit in gestalt.


Carl-I have to admit that over the years I have read a zillion reviews by MF and I would have never drawn the conclusions you did as to the type of sound he prefers.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Carl-I have to admit that over the years I have read a zillion reviews by MF and I would have never drawn the conclusions you did as to the type of sound he prefers.

Me neither.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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The thing is, one man's defined/firm/tight is another mans hard/etched/mechanical etc..

If you want more of those things then you can use the Allnic head amp in conjunction. For me it takes it to another level altogether.

That said, many customers in the USA prefer the H3000 without the head amp. Proof that not everyone seeks what MF seeks and that things like flow, naturalness and expression can be ultimate endpoints in themselves.

As you say, listen yourself and then decide.

That's hardly the case. The words speak for themselves and volumes.

That's how I would call it with the Chinese 5U4Gs.

Mikey didn't like the upper mids either.

HP OTOH loved the unit but he loves everything lately it seems.
 

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