What Do You Do To Break In Your Cables?

MylesBAstor said:

The new CC is different than the one you have I believe Caelin. I also think it has more output eg a bigger built in amp and a different sweep but Alan might be the better one to comment.

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Hello everyone......Myles asked me to join in and comment, and especially to correct any misinformation. I read through every post on the 7 pages of commentary to be certain I didn't miss anything of note. It seems there is, indeed, a good deal of misinformation regarding the audiodharma Cable Cooker's output signal and overall capability. So if you will kindly indulge me, I'll do my best to both inform, correct, and dispel such misinformation point-by-point.

Firstly, the Cable Cooker's output signal combines high voltage, high current, plus a swept square wave covering the range of 0 DC to just a hair over 40Khz. This steady-state signal outputs 125 mA on the low-level circuit (for interconnects) and approx. 1.9 Amperes on the high-level circuit (for speaker cables & power cables). The Cable Cooker utilizes an outboard 12V / 2.5A universal switching power supply. Steady-state voltage output measures out at approx. 11.8V on the low-level circuit and 11.4V on the high-level circuit.

The high-level circuit is also used for various audio transformers and all manner of high-quality capacitors such as Audience Auricaps, Dueland CAST, Jupiter's, Mundorf's, and V-Caps (the Teflon varieties as well). And not to be remiss, the Cable Cooker does an outstanding job on a host of passive AC line conditioners, including Audience (they pre-condition theirs before shipping), Acoustic Revive, Audio Magic, BPT, Isoclean, Oyaide, Running Springs, Sound Application, Synergistic Research (they pre-condition theirs as well), and yes, even various models of Shunyata.

To further elucidate the swept square wave's capabilities (per jap's comments re: "frequency. The higher the better."), please note that while the upper frequency is calibrated (via oscilloscope) to just over 40Khz, this calibration does not take into account the harmonics that reach into the megahertz. The "higher the better" indeed.

To "edorr", a slight correction to your statement ("The cooker probably generates high frequency at low voltage."), and "microstrip" ("cooker generate only low voltage pulses".) As you read above, the Cable Cooker delivers a high-voltage, high-current steady-state signal, in addition to the wide-frequency swept square wave. There is no low voltage option, and the signal does not pulse....it's steady-state. The output signal is vastly different in content from Jim Hagerman's fine products and Nordost's VIDAR and other dealer-operated cable conditioning device.

And edorr....since you indicate you are a Cable Cooker owner, please try one of your Shunyata Alpha's on the unit. You will probably enjoy the results. I would recommend at least 4 days of conditioning (presuming the cable is new), plus perhaps another 24 hours of conditioning after you've listened for a few days. Your ears will tell you what's best.

There are NO high-end cable burn-in devices that I am aware of that have enough current output to properly burn-in power cables. And yes, I have tried them all. We have considered building a device specifically for PCs but the fan seems to do the trick.

While Caelin is stating his personal/professional experience (with which I shall not argue), his implication / admonition regarding current output is simply not correct. Since version 2.0, the audiodharma Cable Cooker has ALWAYS outputted a steady-state signal consisting of 1.9 Amperes of current (on its high-level circuit), and this level remains so today with version 3.5, six generations down the road. This high-level output is equivalent to 22 watts of power, certainly much higher than the "watt of power or less" that Caelin states in his post about "these devices". We achieve an equivalent one watt of power on the "low-level" interconnect circuit, however, quite sufficient for runs of up to 2400 feet of line-level cabling (as proven a couple of years ago in a California recording studio). Additionally, a few manufacturers regularly pre-condition long spools of heavy gauge speaker cable, anywhere from 250 feet to 500 feet long.

Further, countless numbers of cable manufacturers all over the world have been successfully using the unit to condition not just one power cable, but daisy-chaining multiples, sometimes two dozen simultaneously. Many of them are very well known, and advertise both online and in various audiophile print magazines. As most of the sales over 14 years have been to individuals, most customers usually order multiple 15-amp "extension" adaptors for just this purpose. I also offer 20-amp IEC adaptors and extension adaptors for daisy-chaining 20-amp cables.

Of interest: depending on the gauge of the conductors and amount(s) of dielectric materials, the conditioning times usually vary from 4 days (for 14-gauge) to 6 days (10-gauge). Heavier gauge geometries sometimes take a bit longer. And per the FAQ page, I always recommend Cooking-and-listening tests to determine the most effective conditioning time. But simply put, a fan is simply no match for the Cooker's steady-state output signal, especially from a qualitative and musical perspective.

Caelin owns one of 5 original prototype Cable Cookers, built approximately 14 years ago....he was one of the professionals I consulted during the initial design and test period, and in fact helped contribute to the idea of using custom adaptors for power cable conditioning, for which I am quite thankful. But that original prototype was superceded by versions 2.0 through version 3.5....fully six generations of circuitry now beyond the original. I am not aware if he has tested or used any other version other than the original prototype.

There is no question that Shunyata makes very fine products, and their longevity and sales around the world prove that very point. But on the subject of power cable conditioning and the Cable Cooker's overall capability, Caelin's comments are incorrect.

Thank you all for taking the time to read my response.

alan m. kafton

I should add that the 4-to-6 day conditioning recommendations stated above are for NEW power cables. Power cables that have been in one's system for a good amount of time easily benefit from a "recharge" of only 1-to-2 days, depending on the mass of the cable (and connectors). Experience shows, and I regularly state, that ALL cables retrograde in performance over time. Hence, a periodic "recharge" is highly recommended at least every 6 months. One can hear the benefit immediately. This predictable phenomena has been demonstrated over-and-over thousands of times (by Cooker owners) since the unit first went into production.

Thank you again.

Hi, Caelin. Just going to respond a bit to your response, and your questions (to me) at the end of your post, and be done. As my initial response was composed in the wee hours, I didn't realize until well after that this thread was one you created. The subject of "break-in", or conditioning as I prefer to call it, definitely should be on its own.

You make a fine product and I recommend it to people when they want a burn-in device.

Thank you so much.

The Cable Cooker's output current is commendable and far above the Frycorder which was the subject of the conversation.

Again, thank you. I'm glad I had the opportunity to clear up any questions or doubts as to the output signal and the unit's overall capability.

Even so, 1.9 amps is nowhere near the 5-10 amps of current that a typical high-current cord can draw when used on a power conditioner or amplifier.

However, that 1.9 Amperes is continuous, steady-state....that's a much more powerful animal.

If someone buys a burn-in device and wants to use it on a power cord - go for it. However, it is certainly not needed nor required to fully burn-in a power cord. Interconnects and speaker cables are a different story as I have said repeatedly.

Not needed? We certainly disagree here. The musical benefits are easily demonstrated. Not required? That is, of course, a personal preference. Our hobby continues because individuals want better and better performance, easily witnessed by the succession of Shunyata products over the years. Your technology has advanced, as have your materials quality. Both have improved the performance of your products. But those materials (metal conductors and dielectric materiel) are still greatly affected and improved via the Cable Cooker's multiplex signal. The underlying physics hasn't changed. Essentially, the Cooker is simply "seeing" wire conductors and dielectric materiel, no matter their geometry or construction, and the improvement is easily repeatable. Unless you're doing something new and different, a power cable contains similar materials and wire conductors to interconnects and speaker cables, albeit larger gauges. There is no reason why a power cable would not benefit from conditioning.

My objection has been and continues to be the insertion of high frequency square waves into a power conditioner.

That is your theory. There are any number of them concerning wire design, cable geometry, and circuit design. Most work very well in practice, some more than others. I prefer practical knowledge, experience, and outcomes. On all the AC line conditioners I've conditioned with the Cable Cooker over 14 years (or with customer's own units), I've heard only one negative experience, and that was with one of your newest designs....the Cooker's external power supply did not "like" what it saw, and the protective circuitry shut it down. It was likely a reactance issue to something in your circuitry. All the other conditioners, of course, have been passive devices. Active devices like PS Audio and others are definitely NOT recommended for use, as some of their internal parts do not have the current or wattage rating for the Cooker's very strong multiplex signal. This is the same reasoning for amplifiers, preamplifiers, and phono stages.

Do you recommend running your cable cooker into a power conditioner or live wall wiring?

A big yes to the first part, but no to the second. Cabling must be completely removed and installed output side to input side on the Cable Cooker. However, I've been treating customers' in-wall wiring (both 12-gauge and 10-gauge) for many, many years, in rolls up to 250 feet, usually after cryogenic treatment. This has been a regular part of my business. I believe Jim Hagerman's unit has successfully demonstrated the ability to condition already-installed in-wall wiring.

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond.

Come one, come all and share your experiences about burning your cables in with the Cable Cooker, Frybaby, Vidar, electric fans, etc., How long, do you retreat, settling times, tonearm wiring, Silver vs. Copper wire....??? Don't be shy!

Done Myles..

Unfortunately they could only be moved in chronological order

I have a old CD + integrated based system playing continuously in repeat mode the Purist Audio System Enhancer CD at high levels using 47 ohm power resistors as dummy speakers. This CD is also great for speaker burn-in, but dangerous as the higher bass levels appear at the end of the long single track. Balanced cables go through a RCA XLR balancing transformer. Weak points : the cables are daisy chained using the cheapest adapters in the market and I do not keep logs of burn-in time.

Never burned-in power cables, but I already got a ventilator, according to Caelin directions. I am now building 6 daisy chain adaptors and I expect that 230V will burn-in cables faster than 110V.

I just listen to music. I am not giving up listening time to wait for break-in. Yes most cables get better over time but none have sounded bad out of the box.

I just use them.

MylesBAstor said:

Come one, come all and share your experiences about burning your cables in with the Cable Cooker, Frybaby, Vidar, electric fans, etc., How long, do you retreat, settling times, tonearm wiring, Silver vs. Copper wire....??? Don't be shy!

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Signal cables, I put them on my FM for 5 days max. Power cables... nothing. Beyond that, just use them. I don't care for cable cookers... why? Because music is not square waves or sine waves, I prefer the complexity of real music.

My IC's and AC power cables once set in place do not like to be disturbed. Most reviewers have stated that cables sound the best left alone. Recharge? What a joke.

OK for all my analog buddies. How many of you burn-in your tonearm wires?

Here because of the low voltages/current involved, even jury rigging a tuner or CD to play thru your tonearm will be of benefit.

In the the high-end audio world of ever increasing prices, perhaps one of the most cost effective tweaks out there.

MylesBAstor said:

OK for all my analog buddies. How many of you burn-in your tonearm wires?

Here because of the low voltages/current involved, even jury rigging a tuner or CD to play thru your tonearm will be of benefit.

In the the high-end audio world of ever increasing prices, perhaps one of the most cost effective tweaks out there.

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I had Cardas make up a short adapter cable with a male DIN to RCA connections. I have the MIT MA-X phono hooked up to my CD player burning in right now.

Frank750 said:

I had Cardas make up a short adapter cable with a male DIN to RCA connections. I have the MIT MA-X phono hooked up to my CD player burning in right now.

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I want one of those!

I have Alan's Audiodharma Cable Cooker Anniversary Edition. not exactly sure whether I have the 3.0 or 3.5 version?

anyway; it works. I use it on new cables mostly, and I vary the time based on the thickness of the cable. my Evolution Acoustics triple run speaker and power cables were run for over a week on the unit. Gary Koh's Absolute Fidelity power cords were only run for 3 days.

cable cooking does 'clean up' cables in a way that running in cannot quite fully do. but time with music also has it's advantages too. I think both approaches are valuable.

I'm due now for some re-burn as it's been a couple years since I burned in my then new speaker and power cables.

no; I have done no scientific investigations of cable cookers. I did own the older Nordost cable burn in device back in the day and that worked too, but not as well as this machine.

I do have the connectors to burn in my phono cables but have not done my current Telos phono cables. probably should.

JackD201 said:

I just use them.

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+1...whew!

Sammy T said:

My IC's and AC power cables once set in place do not like to be disturbed. Most reviewers have stated that cables sound the best left alone. Recharge? What a joke.

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I take it that you just play your cables?

Frank750 said:

I had Cardas make up a short adapter cable with a male DIN to RCA connections. I have the MIT MA-X phono hooked up to my CD player burning in right now.

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Great idea!

Anyone in favor of "molesting" cables before cooking them? And by that I mean bending and twisting them around... if you are going to be cruel and cook them, might as well go all the way???