Where not to send your Nagra T Audio for service - long, sorry.

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
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Seattle WA area
I consider myself a generally nice person - never felt joy in talking bad about others or do bad to them to get ahead. Guess, I took Thumper's line in the Bambi regarding what his mother told him - loosly as I remember - if you can't say anything good about the person, never say anything at all...

Well, for once, I will go against Thumper's advice.

A person responsded to my inquiry for a Nagra T Audio service after learning from Nagra Audio USA that they no longer offer service for analog tape machines and i would send it to Swiss for repair...
He replied to my post with strong information why he is the only one in US who can do the repair on Nagra T. I contacted him and asked the usual question for an estimate after describing its symptoms. His reply was that I'll have to send it in before he can give me an estimate. So, I put the sick Nagra T Audio in its factory flight case before Christmas 2009. Realizing the original hard foam at the bottom of the metal case was already compressed from the previous use and age, I put an additional new 2" hard foam on the bottom for protection. The machine got to Eastcoast fine and he informed me that he had other machines ahead of mine...but I didn't hear from Bob for months.

Well get to the end of the story - I finally heard from him in July 2010 -well over six months had gone by... with the information that he had worked on my machine but it can't be fixed. I would have to spend $5K for a new board or $3.5K trade for a refurbished one and plus his time for both options. I was shocked...although I had never authorized him to do the repair - with any common sense - if I had known in the estimate that the parts cost alone was to be at min. $3.5K, it would have be an easy decision and the answer would have been NO (since I had two other perfect Nagra T Audios, I can use this one for spare parts). But in respect for his work and being a nice guy, I told him that repair was out of question but I would still pay for his time in troubleshooting the issue. He got somewhat upset that I wasn't going through with the repair...and said I owed him $1,500 for finding the problem. I was about to faint. I should have challenged him with the fact that I had never agreed to let him do the work in the first place without him even mentioning the estimate for the work. But being a nice guy I asked him to send me an invoice. Well, the invoice came with $5,000 for the troubleshooting work and $3,500 special discount plus $41 for parts he replaced(used to troubleshoot???).

Now for the ugly parts- he sends me an email few days later....after keeping my machine for more than 6 months - he would start charging me for storage fees if I didn't send in the money soon.
Since I was a nice guy (again but at this time, more like -being stupid, I sent him a check for $1,541 for his professional assessment that my machine was still not working... The machine did get back to me but to my dismay, I found the 2" hard foam piece on top of the deck and the Nagra T was crushed on one bottom corner not having any protection to speak of. I emailed him with the shipping damage issue and asked him why he didn't bother to put the foam material at the bottom of the case... He denied any responsibilty but told me not to relinqush the deck to FedEx. However, unlike UPS, when one makes a damage claim to FedEx they must have the packge in their facility for inspection. In filing the claim I insisted to FedEx to send the machine back to Seattle after inspection. After a week or so, I got pretty strong and disturbbing message from him that FedEx had delivered the Nagra to his place, he never had authorized me to send the deck to him, and he is not there for long time. He said I have get FedEx to pick it up or someone will steal it.

FedEx denied my damage claim because it was in a "case" instead of a cardboard box with proper weight rating (go figure)... I sent him an email asking if he had seen the deck at his place but received no relpy. In the meantime, FedEx had admitted today that they should have returned the package to Seattle and don't know where the package is still...

So I just called him this morning to inform him of my situation and to ask him if he had any traces of the Nagra in his place. Unbelieveably he got angry that I called him to ask about the recorder, he had already wasted his time on my machine, and I had refused his work. I lost my patience at that point and told him the fact that he never gave me an estimate, did the work without my written concent, and he was rude, mean, nasty and unprofessional... etc. He said he never wanted to hear from me or anything more about my machine ever again and hung up on me.

Now, that's a place where you don't ever want to send your Nagra machine or even your ex-mother-in-law for anything.

As I discussed with one of the fourm members earlier... the person is still living in the 80s when he could have demanded more, his service had bigger value, studios would spend $5000 for parts and he can charge another $5000 for his time. Unfortunately, those days are over and long gone.

BTW, saddly I had insured the Nagra for $2000 only but even that's gone plus now I am out of the recorder.

Sorry Thumper, if you are reading this... I'll do better the next time.

Ki
 
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Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Snohomish, WA
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Damn Ki... These companies are getting more stringent with claims. I had a computer and converter destroyed at last RMAF. Because I couldn't prove damage by FedEx.. the drayage company said the case arrived damaged.. and by the time I got it, it was a doorstop.
These are tough times.. that's why I'm driving to RMAF.
Too bad people can't be accountable for their actions. I remember when a handshake was as good as gold!

Don't even get me started about "losing" 2 Pass Labs XA-160 amps!

I'd be cautous about posting this to the TP forum...
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
29
1,590
Seattle WA area
Thanks Bruce and Steve.

I had to say something to someone somewhere after receiving such an abuse. All he had to say was he was sorry for my situation and he couldn't do anything else to help me... A little sensitivity and compassion (even if one doesn't truly mean it...) goes a long way in customer service. Whatever happend to the days when the customer was never wrong even if he was really wrong?... Last thing he said before hang up on me was that "I am running a business, here!" Judging from how he treats his paying customers, I have a feeling his business wouldn't last much longer...sadly. I can always get another Nagra T (probably on Roslyn Heights, NY Craigslist...) but he won't get my business ever.

Yes, Bruce. Thanks for your advice on not posting it on TP forum... I agree. Considering his previous behavior, he would probably try to sue me...

I am glad you will be driving to RMAF. Jeff at J-Corder also drives to CES and RMAF. Maybe you guys can share the trailer space and save some cost.

Ki
 
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Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Not sure I understand why it is OK to post the negative comments here but not at TP. He can just as easily sue you here for slander as at TP.

The TP forum is a tight-knit group. If you say anything derogatory about any of the tapes or it's members, you get banned and a stern letter from Doc or Paul. I've gotten one...

Same thing with this forum. I make a comment about not liking the tapes and the members here start sending nasty grams!
 
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Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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off the top of my head i think you need to seek counsel. I also suggest you gather all documents, and write down a chronology of of what happened. Then locate the NY Consumer Affairs office which is sometimes located in the State Attorney Generals Office. File a complaint there. If it not there then can tell you where it is.
Most states and I'm sure NY the land of trickery is one of them, require non-refundable estimate fees to be but in writing up front and that they be reasonable. Most businesses are going to roll the estimate fee into the price of the work. Moreover you are entitled so see the written estimate before the work is begun. This usually includes a time estimate with the hourly rate. It also requires an itemized parts list. Any company can clearly state they will not accept returns without prior authorization. However if that was the case he should never have accepted it. Once accepted the package he becomes a baillee and has to take reasonable steps to secure the package. he may possibly charge for storage and return shipping and handling. he may also demand payment prior to return shipping. Once he accepted it he had a duty to notify you to arrange for its return. if you failed to do so within a reasonable amount of time he could dispose of it as he sees fit.
As I said I do not practice in NY and the laws very from State to state. in addition your state law may also control. it may be that by advertising in your state he subjected himself to thier law.
Sorry good luck

With regard to shipping damage may god have mercy on you.;):)
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
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1,590
Seattle WA area
My intension was to explain my situation as it had happend. Nothing added - nothing deleted from the facts. In addition, I hope other people would gain some benefits from my first hand experience. I did remove all references to the place and the person...maybe I should remove the equipment name and model as well... and call it a "recorder."

Ki
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Boston, MA
Being too nice, I think you got scared and removed his info - at least I read the original and know who you are talking about. But if your story is straight, you have nothing to fear and there is no case of slander. You should definitely file a complaint.
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
29
1,590
Seattle WA area
Hi ack:

May be you are right but as I was editing my original post, some old saying from Korea came to my head - one avoids stepping on a pile of Sh_t on the road not becasue it is scary... I didn't need anymore unecessary excitement from the fiasco...

Ki
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Truth is an absolute defense to slander.
 

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
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I have noticed a trend over at the TP forum as well, if you make mention in a negitive way about one of the tapes or something the members come running to the defense of the TP. If you say something that the head guys don't like you hear about it!!!

Jay
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
29
1,590
Seattle WA area
Thanks for your responses.

This is the price I am paying for buying stuff on impluse and doing thinkgs exactly opposite of what I had been advising to other people when they ask me about their potential purchase of Studers. Then, instead of taking time to learn the machine as I had done for other brands such as Sony APRs and various Studers, I took an easy option of sending it off.

I did think about confronting the person before sending him the check but knew from his behavior he would have kept the machine for a hostage. Even if I had pursued legal means to recoupe the loss, it would end up costing me more than what I can possibly get back, I would imagine.

This is only a hobby for me and I don't want it to turn into a such a negative event that I would never want to look at any tape recorders or lose interests in music...

Ki
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
29
1,590
Seattle WA area
Hi Jay:

I too have been very careful not to step on TP toe... On the other hand, as the forum name suggests, it is Tape Project forum and was created with clear agenda of promoting TP tapes and products.

I just hope that the commerical sensitivity and over zealous evironment by few people there wouldn't push potential tapeheads away...

Ki

I have noticed a trend over at the TP forum as well, if you make mention in a negitive way about one of the tapes or something the members come running to the defense of the TP. If you say something that the head guys don't like you hear about it!!!

Jay
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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Hi Ki,

What a story! I think this thief needs his name up in lights. I have had repair work take 3 times of what is reasonable,but never experienced what you did. Now I know why I like my Ampexes so much, parts are plentiful and I have a honest and knowledgeable tech.

No Nagras for me.

Take care,

Roger
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Hi Ki,

Sad to know about your poor experience - I remember your enthusiasm about the NagraT at the TP forum.
For those who do not know Ki from the TP forum, all I can say is that although we never met he is a very friendly poster, always available to help with his advice and experience.
Happily you have other machines and with time you will forget about all this. But is is hard to accept.
 

Ki Choi

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
764
29
1,590
Seattle WA area
Hi Ki,

What a story! I think this thief needs his name up in lights. I have had repair work take 3 times of what is reasonable,but never experienced what you did. Now I know why I like my Ampexes so much, parts are plentiful and I have a honest and knowledgeable tech.

No Nagras for me.

Take care,

Roger

Hi Roger:

Having a tech near by to help you is a very fortunate thing. I had mentioned elsewhere that not having a Studer tech in Seattle area or the one we had was too busy to help with personal machines - drove me to learn and maintain my Studers.
Ki
 

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