Sublime Sound

bazelio said:

Late comer saying great audio room and beautiful historic house, Peter!

Curious, those old Seismic Sink platforms are the air bladder type which were discontinued. Have you ever compared to the newer spring loaded Townshend platforms? I've wondered why your style was discontinued.

Thanks!

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Thank you for the kind words, Bazelio. No, I have not compared the two Sink types. My friend does have one of the new spring ones. I suppose I could take one of mine over to his house. I presume they were discontinued because of the maintenance issue. The valves in the air bladders fail, and they do need to be pumped up every now and then. I do not know if or how they sound different from each other.

The story behind this adventure was shared with a couple of friends in two emails. I will reprint them here with some minor edits:

EMAIL #1

The Magico Q3 has been my dream speaker for about six years, ever since I first heard them during a demonstration lead by Alan Wolf at Goodwin’s High End in Waltham, MA. Now that they have just been discontinued, I was able to audition a pair that belonged to a local friend. He told me to keep them as long as I wanted so that I could directly compare them to my beloved Mini 2.

I had three main concerns: 1. the bass might overload my small room; 2. the tweeter would be too hot; and 3. that my wife would not tolerate the looks and size in our small, traditional, formal living room. I spent two weeks listening to the speakers, experimenting with positioning, and directly comparing them to my Minis. Here is some of the music I used for the evaluation:

1. Holst Planets
2. Holst Medieval Choral
3. Miles Davis, Sketches of Spain
4. Janaki Trio
5. Count Bassie, 88th Street
6. Lorde, Pure Heroine
7. Acoustic Research, Demo LP
8. Cantata Domino
9. Duttileux Cello
10. Sheffield Drum Record
11. Johhny Hartman, Once in Every Life
12. Ray Brown, Laurindo Almeida, Moonlight Serenade

After about a week, I decided to switch speakers again and hear the Mini 2. I was immediately struck by how good the Mini 2 is. Perhaps it was familiarity, the look of it, or something else, but as I listened, I was really impressed by the incredible immediacy, presence and energy (as Al M. describes). They sound so natural and right, as my audio friends have all heard. I thought, wow, these are fantastic, why should I sell them to buy the Q3? For some reason, I had forgotten why I liked them so much in the first place and had lost track of how good they sound. I was really enjoying them.

Then I switched back, and then listened to the Q3 again. Same music, reverse order. I took notes on each piece of music, but it will take too long to write it all here. Instead, I will just focus on the general differences. First, on much of the music, the two speakers sound very similar with one major difference: the Q3 is quieter and cleaner sounding.

Cabinet Resonance:

More than the extension and bass, this is the biggest difference, I think. This must be the cabinet construction. The Mini 2 has a slight sound which overlays everything. It is not unpleasant. It is a very slight glow. The noise floor is higher, the background not as black. So images and sounds do not stand out in as stark a contrast as they do with the Q3. This took a while to identify and come to grips with. It may be why some find the Qs sterile, or analytical.

This quietness allows one to hear more information, more hall ambiance, finer string textures, more breathing, more details in general. However, I was so used to the low level noise of the Mini for so many years, that this quietness was a bit unsettling. However, after hearing and identifying this artifact with the Mini, it’s absence in the Q3 is apparent. The Mini has a slight veil, a halo, a cabinet character that adds a sense of beauty to the sound. It warms it up a bit and blunts the ruthlessly honest tweeter of the Q3. Decays seem to go on with the Mini longer if they hit that same cabinet resonance. The Q3 decays are less consistent. The speaker is more transparent to the recording, so some decays are long, some shorter. At first, this quietness did not sound natural, but as I understand it for what it is, and I improve the speaker positioning, this quietness and increased resolution actually makes the music sound more natural. It is pretty eerie, actually.

Bass:

The next area of difference is the bass quality. Al mentioned that he thinks the Q3 is not more extended than the Mini 2, it just has better bass articulation and definition. I think the Q3 is very slightly more extended. I don’t know the exact numbers and I would like to invite Alan down to do some measurements. The Mini goes to mid 20s in my room, but there is a big bump at 40 Hz. I bet the Q3s go just as lower or slightly lower but are flatter. The Mini has a big dip at 300 Hz, and I bet the Q3 is flatter here too. What is clear is that the three 7” woofers add a lot more body to the lower frequencies and the overall sound is fuller with more weight. I did not really miss this with the Mini, but once heard with the Q3, I miss it with the Mini. The Drum Record is good on the Mini2, it is incredible on the Q3. The Q3 goes louder and bigger and has just as much dynamics and jump factor.

Tweeter:

The Mini tweeter rolls off in my room at 10 KHz according to Alan’s measurements. The Q3 surely does not. It has much more high frequency energy. In this sense, the Mini 2/Q3 is much like the Supreme/MSL. I am now thinking that the MSL/Q3 combo is right on the edge of being too ruthless and extended in the highs. I have tamed this tonight with more very slight speaker position tweaks, but on a bright recording, the sound is bright. Al was not bothered by this the other day, but long term, I might be. That is the only very slight caveat I have about the Q3. I am eager to reinstall my AirTight to see if this makes a difference without losing too much HF information on say violin string texture and cymbals.

Soundstage/Imaging:

The Q3 being quieter and having more bass energy allows me to hear more into the stage. My mother heard the Cantata Domino recording, specifically, a soprano and then a chorus. She remarked that with the old speakers she could see the singer/singers in the room. Now she could imagine the space they were singing in. The Q3 presents a vast image and space, especially on recordings like Holst’s Planets. Low drums in the distance are much more easily heard and distinct. Edges on the sides and back are more defined. And the soundstage is higher. Because the Q3 is quieter and does not have the slight resonance of the Mini 2, the images are more defined in space. They are more grounded and more clearly seen/heard.

Presence:

The Mini 2’s hallmark in my system was its sense of Presence and energy. I have struggled with speaker positioning to see if I can get the Q3s to do the same. I think I am now very close if not quite there. The increased resolution and quietness better define the instrument or voice in space. Johnny Hartman singing is right there in the room with slightly more realistic weight and body to his voice and accompanying instruments. The choruses on the Holst and Cantata Domino are more intelligible, grander, and fill the stage more coherently.

Conclusion: I have wanted to hear the Q3 in my system ever since I first heard them demoed at Goodwin’s years ago. I had three concerns: Anne would not allow such large, black monoliths in our living room; the tweeter is too bright; the bass would overload our small room. Sadly, Anne thinks the speakers are ugly, but she thinks the Minis are ugly too. Fortunately, she is extremely accommodating and is not willing to veto my decision to buy the speakers. The tweeter is much more extended than the one in the Mini 2. This has proven to be a challenge, but I am now happy with finding a speaker position which works well and presents a natural tonal balance. But, the speaker is ruthlessly honest and does tell me exactly what is on the recording. Finally, the bass is glorious, and seems to be just fine in the room.

I have decided to buy the speakers. I will continue to fine tune them for a while, as I did with the Mini 2s (with Jim Smith’s help, of course). I think the Q3 will enable me to enjoy a wider range of music, especially larger scale classical. Some smaller scale music sounds pretty similar with both speakers which is great, but some music sounds much better and is a completely new experience with the Q3. It is all very thrilling and I am really excited to now explore the rest of my collection.

EMAIL #2

I am grateful to finally have had the opportunity to hear what I referred to for many years as my “dream speaker” in my own system for an extended audition period. I am very happy with the great deal I got, and I am absolutely thrilled and excited to own these new speakers.

I have lived with the Mini 2 for about seven years and they got better over time to the point where I really enjoyed them. However, the more time I have spent listening to Ian’s MPro, the more I began to appreciate the benefits of a more full range speaker system. That got me thinking again about the Q3 and when the M3 was released, I knew there might be some opportunities to get a used Q3 for a good price. My goal was to retain the magic of my system with the Minis (Dynamics, Tone, Presence, vanishing act) but add some resolution and the fuller range sound that I hear from Ian’s system. I had my concerns about trying a bigger speaker in my small room and I listed them, but I really wanted to see if I could achieve my goal without sacrificing any of the benefits I have with the Mini. I now think I have achieved my goal.

It was extremely late at night when I wrote that comparison and perhaps my enthusiasm did not come through clearly enough. I do not relish the intense direct comparisons when trying to make purchase decisions. I struggled with the XP20-/XP22 comparison and with the AirTight/MSL comparison, but I always learn something and have not made many mistakes. I tried to list things and explain what I was hearing and my reasoning for the decision as clearly as I could, but the emotion did not come through in that email.

The Q3 does indeed push my intellectual buttons because it is a technological tour de force. As such, it presents the music in a different way, and I am still getting used to it. I immediately heard the potential as I did with Ian’s MPros when I first heard them. I think I am only beginning to now hear what these speakers are capable of doing in my room, and I am extremely optimistic. They are better than the Mini in every way, including the ways in which mini monitors excel, namely coherence, presence, and ability to disappear. That surprised me, but hearing them now, I do not see the trade offs that I was anticipating. The Q3s are simply better speakers.

The speakers are so transparent that it depends on the recording and speaker position. When Al and Ian first heard the system last Saturday, I think it did sound thin, and it lacked body and energy. I overlooked that because I was focused more on resolution and the vastness of the soundstage and I was overcompensating to make sure the bass did not overload the room and that the highs did not drive me out of the room. I made mistakes in the speaker positioning which were readily apparent.

With the new and current position, there is a very full body and weight to the sound. Better than the Mini 2. There is also a lot of energy, perhaps the same as with the Mini. Piano, cello, orchestra, male voice, it all sounds more natural and realistic. The instruments are more grounded, the organ fills the room, and a viola does not sound like a violin. Instruments’ timbre is more accurate and distinct because of the increased weight and body. The speakers are utterly coherent and of a piece.

Holst’s Planets, Count Bassie, Lorde, and the Drum Record overwhelmed me with levels of emotional involvement and sense of thrill that I have not heard before in my room. The scale is vast, the rhythm is contagious, and the musical message is more complete. The smaller scale stuff like Johnny Hartman, a solo flute or clarinet or cello, have never sounded more present or real. I could not be happier, but it is just taking some time to all sink in. It is quite a change for me, and part of me still can’t believe that I am getting this sound in my room.

I have told some of my audio buddies how incredible I thought the M3 sounded at Goodwin’s a few weeks ago. Well, last night, I heard some of that same demo music in my system and the Q3 sounded just as good on that limited selection. That is saying something. So, I am thrilled with the decision. I grew very fond of the Minis, so in some sense, it is sad to not see them in the room. The familiarity was comforting. I do think they look superb in that room, but the Q3 look is growing on me too. I am excited to see how far the Q3 takes me, because I know that they can be dialed in a bit better. They sound fantastic now, and I hear their potential, but I know they can still be improved.

sbo6 said:

+2, when did you get them, beautiful!

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Thank you very much, sbo6. I made the decision to actually buy them about a week ago and completed the transaction today. I discussed the possibility of auditioning them in my system about four months ago. It was an incredible opportunity offered to me by a friend who was thinking of selling his Q3s. He also owns Mini 2s. I have learned a lot in the last two weeks about listening critically, fine tuning speaker positions, and my personal preferences.

I love the Mini 2 and they are great speakers. The Q3 is even better. Three friends who know my system very well came by a few times to hear the Q3s before I decided to buy them. They made some helpful comments. I could not be happier with my decision and can't stop listening to my LPs.

Thank you Mike and Ron. I will have to remove the protective plastic wrap on the bottom of the speakers, now that I own them, and reshoot some photos. This pair had just been inspected by Magico before being sent to me. I do like the looks very much. Perhaps not quite as much as my old Mini 2s, but these are really growing on my. The build quality and finish are incredible, and I actually like the purposeful and clean aesthetic.

I will have more to write about the way they present the music in the weeks and months ahead. I will say this: based on some of the comments that I have heard and read about the Magico Q speakers sounding thin, sterile and analytical, I can only think that those impressions were based on speakers that were either not paired with the right gear or on sub-optimal speaker positions. These speakers are every bit as natural, rich, full bodied and warm sounding as my Mini 2s. In my room, slight changes in the Q3s' position dramatically alters the tonal balance and overall sense of Presence. These speakers are extremely revealing, transparent and low in distortion. I have them sounded very good now, but I think they can be improved further in time as I get to know them.

asiufy said:

Congratulations, Peter!
I've lived with a Q3 for a good while, and they could be indeed perfect chameleons! They'd mutate completely with slight positioning changes, and of course, with modifications in electronics/cabling too. But once they're "dialed in", they're extremely rewarding!

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Thank you, Alex. That is indeed what I am discovering. Have you directly compared the Q3 to the M3? The "3" seems to be the size/model for which Magico has the most variations: M3, Q3, S3, and A3.