AF One with Table Stable active isolation table

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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After much toile and rack/component rearrangement, I now have the Herzan distributed TS-140 active isolation shelf under the AF1. I am now going to give it a listen. Report to follow with pix. :)
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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After much toile and rack/component rearrangement, I now have the Herzan distributed TS-140 active isolation shelf under the AF1. I am now going to give it a listen. Report to follow with pix. :)

Nice!! Congrats and look forward to reading all about it!
 

jfrech

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PeterA

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This will be very interesting. Christian, do you plan to listen with the air isolation/suspension incorporated in the AFO both on and off? I suspect that you will get best results with the Table Stable powered on and the AFO air suspension turned off, but that is just a guess.

It must have been a lot of work to set this up. I look very forward to reading about the results of all this effort. If performance gains are realized, that will really be something.
 

rockitman

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This will be very interesting. Christian, do you plan to listen with the air isolation/suspension incorporated in the AFO both on and off? I suspect that you will get best results with the Table Stable powered on and the AFO air suspension turned off, but that is just a guess.

It must have been a lot of work to set this up. I look very forward to reading about the results of all this effort. If performance gains are realized, that will really be something.

Using the AF1 w/o air in the feet is not an option. Doing so, lowers the table below the lowest point the motor drive can go so there will be a belt alignment issue. From what I heard last night, there is significant improvement across the board. The low to mid bass region maintains it's extension while at the same time coming together in sharper focus. The noise floor seems to be further dropped with gains in transparency . The improvements I am hearing with the AF1 are similar to those I heard on my Clearaudio table. The TS-140 is staying with the AF1. I use the HRS TechDas shelf in conjunction with the TS-140. Using the AF1 w/o it is not an option as the turntable with motor is too wide. A portion of the motor's feet would actually hang off the edge. In summary, using an active isolation shelf with this air suspended table is a win, imo. $13k is a lot, but not when you consider the price of this table and the performance gains that are achieved.

Some quick iphone shots:
 

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PeterA

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;)

not surprised.

and the more bass energy in a room the larger the advantage to active isolation.

...or any type of isolation, I would think. Thanks for the report Christian. I did not know that about the motor. For some reason I thought that was also isolated. Perhaps further isolating the motor from ground borne vibrations is part of what you are hearing.

So, if I understand correctly, you have three types of isolation working simultaneously right now for the turntable proper: air isolation in the TechDas feet and platter, then passive mechanical/material isolation with HRS platform, and finally, active isolation with the Herzan. And this all on a very heavy duty ultra rigid Adona rack. I wonder if each addresses different frequencies.

Your results sound similar to the improvements I heard when I added my preloaded/ballasted Vibraplane to my already suspended SME: Increased overall clarity and resolution, greater extension and better bass definition, weight and impact. It makes one realize that adding proper isolation to an already suspended turntable can be of some benefit. I'm sure this is often overlooked as an upgrade option.

It looks like your main armboard is out and awaiting the Graham Elite arm. Have you considered rotating the Herzan 90 degrees so that the turntable front is facing out? I would think access would be easier.

Well, the sound must have been great before, and now it is up another notch. Congratulations. I keep wondering when some manufacturer is going to incorporate active isolation technology into a top turntable design.
 

rockitman

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Have you considered rotating the Herzan 90 degrees so that the turntable front is facing out? I would think access would be easier.

The config I have allows me to slip behind the table to view the 12" Graham Bubble level along with allowing all the interconnect connections to be made which span two racks. This config was not haphazard and required planning for everything to connect and work together. If it was facing me, I would not get a good look at the rear mounted 12" Graham bubble level. The Elite will not happen until January. I am most anxious and will be running the Dynavector XV-1t from that arm.
 

Ron Resnick

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This may be asking to retread a bit of ground but what, exactly, is the scientific theory behind the AF1 sounding better on top of the Herzan than without the Herzan? And since Christian believes the AF1 does, in fact, sound better on top of the Herzan, is there something lacking in the design of the AF1 which makes it less good at dampening resonances itself than we previusly gave it credit for?
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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By itself it's isolated/damped the LP itself to a degree that you can literally tap on a record's label pretty strongly and not hear anything through your loudspeakers. In my mind that credit is deserved. Yet, I don't doubt that Christian did hear improvements with the addition of the Herzan active system. It is only conjecture but I do think the Herzan's main contribution is in the very low frequencies. On a psychoacoustic level we know how vibrations we feel but not necessarily hear can affect perception in the audible band. Everything can be improved upon, I believe this is a case where the AF1 was improved. The designer himself has ideas to improve the design further, the contemplated AF Zero. Chris just got a head start.
 

Ron Resnick

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That all makes sense. Thank you.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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This may be asking to retread a bit of ground but what, exactly, is the scientific theory behind the AF1 sounding better on top of the Herzan than without the Herzan? And since Christian believes the AF1 does, in fact, sound better on top of the Herzan, is there something lacking in the design of the AF1 which makes it less good at dampening resonances itself than we previusly gave it credit for?

what true active isolation can do that no passive device is capable of is stopping. sounds simple but since the active device can stop it has less resonance since it is stiff. 500x stiffer than any passive device since the passive device must 'settle' to one degree or another. second, it also reduces acoustic energy resonance since it's sensors can detect it and neutralize it. it's not 'just' an interface between two surfaces.

the best passive is very very good; but the active device appropriately sized for the target will be better.

I agree that it mostly takes the bass performance to another level, but would add that it also improves the nuance of overall musical focus. one is less aware of the reproduction chain.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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Dear Mike, I understand, thank you.

Dear Christian, Thank you for the photos! I know you wrote previously that you need to use the HRS shelf because the T-140 is not large enough to support the Air Force One's motor. Do you think the HRS shelf is, itself, providing some additional, incremental benefit, or would it be just as useful to use a plain, large metal or granite plate on top of the T-140?
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Dear Mike, I understand, thank you.

Dear Christian, Thank you for the photos! I know you wrote previously that you need to use the HRS shelf because the T-140 is not large enough to support the Air Force One's motor. Do you think the HRS shelf is, itself, providing some additional, incremental benefit, or would it be just as useful to use a plain, large metal or granite plate on top of the T-140?

The HRS platform definitely provides an isolation benefit...just not to the degree of the Table Stable active isolation shelf.
 

Elberoth

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How much is the T-140 right now ?
 

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