Jumper cables

thedudeabides · Nov 30, 2013

Very curious as to others experience with this simple connection. Unfortunately, unable to bi-wire at this time.

I've tried several in my Martin Logan Summits as well as my current MBL 116's.

Current configuration is the "Analysis Plus" 12 ga. speaker wire terminated with spades that are connected to the Monster Cable X-terminator banana plug.

I tried to avoid the "double spade" connection to my speaker's hi / midrange speaker posts thinking it would compromise the quality of the connection.

I've researched various options on the Cable Company website with prices ranging from under a $100 to four figure prices, and this is for four wires that are perhaps 3" long. Seems pretty silly.

I also had a conversion with a Cardas rep who told me the sonic qualities (read signal transmission) will vary depending on the alloy used in the spades and how they interact with each other.

Any comments / insights would be greatly appreciated.

GG

Jazzhead · Dec 1, 2013

Interesting read , try the Diagonal Wiring Configuration , works wonders for me ...... http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJumperinstructions.pdf

LL21 · Dec 1, 2013

When I had SF Guarneris, they came with a metal rod that connected the binding posts if you were not going to bi-amp. (I did not biamp them). I decided to try connecting the amp to the upper and then the lower binding posts to see if I could hear a difference. It was surprisingly obvious...so then I decided to try a second hand pair of Transp Ref Jumper Cables in place of the metal rod. It was much better. Tighter and fuller at the same time.

Bill Hart · Dec 1, 2013

My Avantgarde Duos came from the factory with some jumper from mid- to -tweeter horns. I replaced those with Cardas cable, and had matching Cardas cable from amp to speakers- big improvement. When I changed to Kubala for everything, Joe Kubala made custom cable to do this 'loom.' I go from amp to mid horn- no crossover there, which is nice. Then jumps from midhorn to tweeter and to self-powered woofer (which takes signal at post-amp levels, rather than line level from preamp). Unfortunately, the binding posts at the mid-horn are not big enough to handle all these connections, so I have to use some banana/binding post extension to accommodate this mass of cable. (I think those came from Cardas, and I'm sure they compromise the sound to a degree, but I have no real choice without cannibalizing the speakers).

DonH50 · Dec 1, 2013

I have heard and measured differences changing out jumper wires, but in all cases to date it has been due to corrosion on the connectors that replacing the jumpers solved through basic wiping action, or defective connections. Swapping back in the original jumpers, after cleaning if needed, left the sound and measurements the same as using the new jumpers. I can imagine cases where replacing very small jumpers with very large might make a difference, but on this (among other things) I remain skeptical. Audibility is in the ears of the user, however, and of course I have not heard nor measured your system (generic "your", no specific person posting on this thread or any other implied).

I have also simply soldered jumpers in place but that was more out of convenience than any expectation of audible improvement.

Materials mismatch is actually a good point; it is best to use the same jumper connection material as the jacks on the speakers, or use a non-oxidizing finish such as gold.

thedudeabides · Dec 1, 2013

Thank you all for the comments.

Don, I am also skeptical especially when I see jumpers priced from under $100 to four figures.

I do wonder if silver based jumpers, like the "Walker", may yield better results. Relatively cheap, I suppose, at $400.

Any comments on spade to spade connections on the same speaker post?

The best solution is to bi-wire or bi-amp. Neither of these options are realistic for me at this time.

GG

bvdiman · Dec 1, 2013

Hi GG,
I've been using supplied original jumpers for awhile..
Skeptically thought, what could possibly better the supplied solid block of very high purity copper ones that came standard with my speakers.
Trying several old jumpers I had on hand meant for use with my old Nordost Valhalla and FMA's Forceline3 SCs only strengthened this belief, the original solid copper bars were more tonally correct and balanced overall hence left thing as is.
Two and a half years fast forward, few months ago, I innocently accepted dealer's offer to loan me some jumpers he had just imported which happen to match the SCs I am using.. In short, the improvements wrought was staggering! No way were I to take them out and go back to old once heard it this way.

My lessons learnt :
1) To capitalize fully your SC strength, always use same line of at least equal/better quality jumpers to that of your main SC.
2) Try not mix-match (brands) as this will likely change/skew the tonality of your main's (unless it is your intention in doing so in an attempt to tune sound).
3) If in doubt, better off staying with speaker's original supplied jumpers.
4) The classic mains-to-lows and jumpers-to-high configuration - works best for me (have tried the reverse, as well diagonal/cross etc.)
5) Never undermine the importance of using proper/good set of jumpers if your speaker's x-over are optimally designed for such, the experience is definitely worth your while pushing through with that same extra couple of quality inches

- don't compromise!
6) Spade-to-banana format being most versatile (but need slightly longer length for the twist and not as neat). I'd never stack spade-on-spade. As my SCs are spades, I'm using the banana-to-banana jumpers. Or, if your SCs bananas, spade-to-spade ones.. neater this way IMO.

Some pics to illustrate a bit..

Hope it helps with your dilemma somewhat.
I couldn't afford another run of SCs as well.

RBFC · Dec 1, 2013

How do purpose-made biwire speaker cables compare in this situation? I have Purist Audio Venustas speaker cables with bi-wire spades on the speaker end & have not been tempted to substitute the original jumpers that came with my B&W 801Ds.

Lee

mep · Dec 1, 2013

bvdiman said:
My lessons learnt :

Unless you are British, the correct word is "learned." It looks like you are coming dangerously close to exceeding the maximum bend radius of your jumper cables.

bvdiman · Dec 2, 2013

RBFC said:
How do purpose-made biwire speaker cables compare in this situation? I have Purist Audio Venustas speaker cables with bi-wire spades on the speaker end & have not been tempted to substitute the original jumpers that came with my B&W 801Ds.

Lee

From collective views I gathered, best is still to use two separate runs of cable (true bi-wiring). Second being purpose-made ones like what you are currently using (Hi/Lo split at speaker end). Close third, using normal runs with jumpers of similar quality (as above). *Second and third results could go either way depending also on how one's speakers' crossovers are configured internally. With such close-tie performance, many said to still favor third option as normal run SCs are slightly easier to flip on the 2nd/used market.

Jazzhead · Dec 2, 2013

bvdiman · Dec 2, 2013

mep said:
Unless you are British, the correct word is "learned." It looks like you are coming dangerously close to exceeding the maximum bend radius of your jumper cables.

"

"

Problem is posts too close being only 4cm apart, and cable too stiff for such job (tight bends). Stress should instead ease given a tad more distance (say 5-6cm). They are ok now.

Another angle.

thedudeabides · Dec 2, 2013

Just ordered some "Deity" solid silver / 12 ga. jumpers from DH Labs, which is the same manufacturer I use in the rest of my system.

Will post comments once I install.

Many thanks for all of your comments.

GG

asindc · Dec 3, 2013

Jazzhead said:
Interesting read , try the Diagonal Wiring Configuration , works wonders for me ...... http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJumperinstructions.pdf

That also worked well for me with Wireworld cables and jumpers. Both Audioquest and Wireworld advocate this setup.

Occam · Dec 3, 2013

Jazzhead said:
Interesting read , try the Diagonal Wiring Configuration , works wonders for me ...... http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJumperinstructions.pdf

and as asindc indicated, Audioquest and Wireworld advocate this method, also.
I did find the Audioquest reference-
http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/UndrstndgBiWr.pdf

But Audioquest advocates running the speaker cable's positive (red) to the treble's red terminal and the cable's neg/ground (black) to the bass terminal black, and completing the circuit(s) with jumpers.
this is the opposite of what Nordost advocated, cable black to treble black terminal and cable red to bass red terminal and completing the cicuit(s) with jumpers.

Subjectively, I agree with Audioquest's diagonal wiring, but its easy enough to empirically test against Nordost's recommendation.

(Pseudo)scientifically, one could argue for connecting the hot/red cable to the tweeters hot/red for the highest signal integrity where it counts and the black/ground to the bass to maximize damping.

Dunno what one would do on a balanced/bridged amp, other than empirically test....

YMMV

thedudeabides · Dec 4, 2013

Thanks Occam.

Will try once I get my new jumpers. Your logic seems to make sense to me.

GG

LL21 · Sep 4, 2014

bvdiman said:
Hi GG,
I've been using supplied original jumpers for awhile..
Skeptically thought, what could possibly better the supplied solid block of very high purity copper ones that came standard with my speakers.
Trying several old jumpers I had on hand meant for use with my old Nordost Valhalla and FMA's Forceline3 SCs only strengthened this belief, the original solid copper bars were more tonally correct and balanced overall hence left thing as is.
Two and a half years fast forward, few months ago, I innocently accepted dealer's offer to loan me some jumpers he had just imported which happen to match the SCs I am using.. In short, the improvements wrought was staggering! No way were I to take them out and go back to old once heard it this way.

My lessons learnt :
1) To capitalize fully your SC strength, always use same line of at least equal/better quality jumpers to that of your main SC.
2) Try not mix-match (brands) as this will likely change/skew the tonality of your main's (unless it is your intention in doing so in an attempt to tune sound).
3) If in doubt, better off staying with speaker's original supplied jumpers.
4) The classic mains-to-lows and jumpers-to-high configuration - works best for me (have tried the reverse, as well diagonal/cross etc.)
5) Never undermine the importance of using proper/good set of jumpers if your speaker's x-over are optimally designed for such, the experience is definitely worth your while pushing through with that same extra couple of quality inches - don't compromise!
6) Spade-to-banana format being most versatile (but need slightly longer length for the twist and not as neat). I'd never stack spade-on-spade. As my SCs are spades, I'm using the banana-to-banana jumpers. Or, if your SCs bananas, spade-to-spade ones.. neater this way IMO.

Some pics to illustrate a bit..
View attachment 12766
View attachment 12767
View attachment 12768
Hope it helps with your dilemma somewhat.
I couldn't afford another run of SCs as well.

Totally agree. I had TA Ref jumpers which clearly improved on the stock metal bars of my old Guarneris.

Just recently, I pulled the jumpers out of the box to try them on my Wilson X1s. I tried them out by replacing the Wilson 1/4" thick copper plate linking 2 binding posts. The standard Wilson copper plate was better...more detail, more real. But then, I put the copper plate back and I ADDED 1 TA Ref jumper. That was a nice improvement. I then added a 2nd jumper (so Wilson copper plate plus 2 TA Ref jumpers...The Wilsons are wired with Transparent...wow...improvements were:

much improved micro dynamics, more instantaneous ability to deliver super-quick peaks, troughs of dynamics

Also, greater detail, decay...and a FAR more nimble bass. Suddenly the mid bass feels as articulate, micro dynamically shaded as the mids/uppers. It is somewhat weird because the X1 bass is excellent but not always so filigreed and delicate when called upon. Now, the power is the same...but teeny nuances and inflections in the bass.

A really nice 'free find' since the TA Ref jumpers were in the drawer.

BTW, I know a dealer who uses TA Ref XL jumpers with their Focal Grande ?Utopia EMs...said they were very surprised at how much better the TA RefXL jumpers make the big Focals sound.

LL21 · Sep 19, 2014

I will be trying TA RefXL, MM and Opus jumpers just for some fun and see what happens. The 10-yr old TA Ref jumpers are great, so was very curious to hear how far any improvements might go. Maybe no further...stay tuned!!

bvdiman · Sep 19, 2014

LL21 said:
I will be trying TA RefXL, MM and Opus jumpers just for some fun and see what happens. The 10-yr old TA Ref jumpers are great, so was very curious to hear how far any improvements might go. Maybe no further...stay tuned!!

Good luck!
Perhaps you already knew, a member on another forum is using TA Opus jumpers with Reference MM SC on Q7 and love 'em. Let us know.. Cheers!
*Tube pre + Gryphon amp too!

LL21 · Sep 20, 2014

bvdiman said:
Good luck!
Perhaps you already knew, a member on another forum is using TA Opus jumpers with Reference MM SC on Q7 and love 'em. Let us know.. Cheers!
*Tube pre + Gryphon amp too!

Now THAT is interesting!!! He has a tube pre and Gryphon amp & hi-end Tranp Ref cables (sounds familiar

). The fact that he uses Opus jumpers is now super intriguing!!! OTOH, I was expecting the 'there's always a difference'...OTOH I was also thinking 'but could it really be that much of a difference?'

We shall see...thanks for that bvdiman. Do you think you can send me the link to that forum? I might just see if I can ask that person about his jumpers...but also his Q7. I have occasionally thought about Q7s as an outside candidate to replace my X1s.

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