Do bluffs work??

amirm

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Hi Lee. What if I have a baseball bat and the bad guy shows up at the door without a weapon or say with a knife. Assume that I would have no idea how to really hit him with it. Is that any kind of deterrent? Would he think, "ah crap, he is going to bash my head in" and decide to back off?

I know we don't talk about guns here but I am going to bend the rules and ask the same question here: what if I have an empty shotgun? Is it better than nothing? Again, assume that I have no idea how to use it and won't have any bullets anyway.
 

Gregadd

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Nothing is more dangerous than an unloaded gun.

The police believe criminals decide in advance how far they are willing to go.
 
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Orb

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Without experience/training dealing with intruders/potentially violent encounters/etc, brandishing any weapon can be very upredictable and incredibly dangerous.
Not only is it about the strategy-approach to each scenario, but also the emotional-body language-vocal language one also presents, and being able to control not only the situation but ones own actions (includes items and how when/what to use).

Very difficult to assimilate all the factors unless one is trained or has dealt with violent (either or both mental and physical) and unpredictable situations in the past.

Cheers
Orb
 

RBFC

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Presentation of a weapon as a defensive threat is controversial. I personally don't recommend this approach, as it has two possible outcomes. First, the bluff works and the confrontation ends as the suspect runs away. Second, the threat of force by you immediately escalates the situation so that the bad guy feels he must use superior force to survive and escape. I'm a big fan of the "if you're gonna pull that weapon, you better be prepared to use it" philosophy. The element of surprise and immediate " violence of action " cannot be emphasized enough for effective self-defense.

Lee
 

rrr

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I'm a big fan of the "if you're gonna pull that weapon, you better be prepared to use it" philosophy. The element of surprise and immediate " violence of action " cannot be emphasized enough for effective self-defense.

Lee

Yes, absolutely correct.
 

Orb

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Yeah,
weapons make the situation incredibly unpredictable.
TBH it is better to have a clear strategy and knowledge on understanding providing exit path for both intruder and oneself, where most secure rooms are if confronted, and making sure one has quick access to contact police (and potential to let the intruder know police are on their way).
Knowing ones environment in this way (as an attacker-defender) is so important.
One bluff that I understand is possibly recommended is that you have called the police already or talk loudly enough for them to hear you talking as if to emergency line (although again I think this is meant to be done if one is in a secure-locked room (ideally with some kind of exit path such as window if needed) - Lee is best to expand on that.

If confronting best to ensure the intruder has an exit route that does not need to go through you and to suggest-emphasise that is the exit while blocking further access if need to protect family-etc (but then that requires a lot of control with body-voice-emotions to really work), not many civilians without training can turn themselves into a "rock" - no give, no emotion or fear-anger, instinctlively and automatically responds to aggressor behaviour-actions, etc.
And it really does work from my own experience with regards to violent encounters and being able to become a physical and mental "wall" settled and prepared to act (need to stress this is not passive behaviour I am talking about); this has stopped further aggression in an encounter or at least saved going to hospital in an ambulance when forced to deal with a group.
Problem is the mental aspect is very difficult to train in a short period, and IMO ideally requires uncomfortable mental training (similar in some ways to that of soldiers with shouting, physical endurance-pain, etc.) combined with the self defense.

Some think being overtly angry-aggressive will mean the other will back down, but this can be a trigger for a fair few attackers in the same way as being perceived as overtly passive can trigger some attackers by being perceived as a potential victim or easy to subdue.
Key IMO is always mental approach that allows one not only to present the right attitude to make an intruder-attacker think carefully before initiating an assault but also critically to think clearly and strategically to be controlling assertive (such as ensuring clear exit for both of you and direct the intruder's thoughts to the easiest option - backing out now through the closest and least difficult exit).
It is possible to "win" without ever having to fight or bluff, but comes down to how well one can cope with the unexpected potentially violent encounter.
Still strongly suggest everyone should at least join a credible self defense group-sessions such as what Lee does, one really gets to appreciate the body mechanics-awareness much more at the very least.

Cheers
Orb
 

zztop7

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Dec 12, 2012
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Hi Lee. what if I have an empty shotgun? Is it better than nothing? Again, assume that I have no idea how to use it and won't have any bullets anyway.

I need to take you to the shooting range near your store. You can bring Bruce to record some serious sounds.

zz.
 

GaryProtein

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You have to get too close with a baseball bat and he could grab it from you and beat you with it.

If you were to use a bat, a good swing sideways (so he can't easily see it coming) across the skull would be good, but it is hard to get a good swing in so close to a doorway.

An unloaded gun doesn't work, so it is of no value.

If I had a gun, I would shoot first, ask questions later and have him be unable to ever refute my story.
 
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Gregadd

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They can train you to shoot not to kill.
 

GaryProtein

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I wouldn't want to leave someone injured who might ever return.
 

mep

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I think Texas is the best state to shoot a criminal without worrying about legal repercussions. It wasn't long ago they had the news story about a guy in Texas who saw some criminals breaking into his neighbor's house. He called 911 and wanted to know if he could shoot them. They told him no, but he went over to his neighbor's house and shot and killed them anyway and no charges were pressed against him.
 

treitz3

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I'm a big fan of the "if you're gonna pull that weapon, you better be prepared to use it" philosophy.

You aren't the only one. ;) Wise words spoken here, if you ask me.

Tom
 

Gregadd

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Great Idea but why do they call it "Shoot to be sued?"

I meant operating a gun is one thing. Killing a human is quite different.
 

GaryProtein

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I think Texas is the best state to shoot a criminal without worrying about legal repercussions. It wasn't long ago they had the news story about a guy in Texas who saw some criminals breaking into his neighbor's house. He called 911 and wanted to know if he could shoot them. They told him no, but he went over to his neighbor's house and shot and killed them anyway and no charges were pressed against him.

I remember hearing the 911 call. The police dispatcher said he could shoot them, but asked him please not to. He did anyway. There were no legal ramifications, but because it got so much publicity the shooter was given a difficult time by many of his neighbors and did have threats made against him.
 

GaryProtein

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I meant operating a gun is one thing. Killing a human is quite different.

I think when someone attempts to break into your house, THEY should be ready to accept whatever befalls them.
 

RBFC

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To address Amir's question more succinctly, I believe there are two distinct ways to handle the "bad guy at the door". For purposes of this immediate post, we'll assume that he has NOT committed forcible entry into your home (yet).

1. Count on your exterior fortifications and cell phone communications to slow his entry (if a forcible entry is being attempted) while summoning police assistance. Consider escape routes for your family from the anticipated points of entry in your home. Consider the "safe room" concept, as far as you might be willing to take it.

2. Have some type of deadly force weapon available and have some training in how to use it effectively. Apply your training to your home environment, so that you may understand the amount of space, etc. in which you might engage a hostile subject. Consider what you would instruct your family to do (and where to go, etc.) if you were to confront an intruder in this manner. A good flashlight is an excellent tool, since many of these scenarios play out in low-light environments. There are convenient flashlights that have dedicated mounting systems to attach to your firearm, or you should practice with single-handed use of your flashlight while wielding the baseball bat, etc. with the other hand. THINK about what would actually happen and what you would be required to do! Also, have a basic understanding of the "castle doctrine" laws in your state, which govern the use of deadly force in protecting your home from intruders.

I don't advocate "bluffing", as criminals have become more attuned to the behavioral aspects of victims (whether armed or not) and they understand that a weapon presented but not used is less likely to be used as time progresses. So, either be ready to retreat to safety or to be prepared to offer a higher force level in return. Once you've made your decision about which path you want, then planning the most effective methods and tactics is more straightforward.

rrr's suggestion on Ayoob's book is excellent.

Lee
 

amirm

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Thanks for the feedback you all. I guess the motivation came from reality shows in Alaska. The owner would almost always come out with a shotgun and folks would get scared to approach. Then again, these were the "good guys" on camera getting scared.
 

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