Intrigued by JBL M2 speaker system .... Opinions please ...

mbovaird · Nov 13, 2013

My advice to everyone interested in the M2 is just to go hear it. I did - twice. They simply reminded me of a really good pair of DJ speakers. Sorry, I know I will take a lot of crap for that....but that's what I felt. If you have a big space and listen to rock music, well, they might float your boat. Despite the evolutions in the M2's horn design, I still noticed a hint of "honkyness".

I MUCH preferred Greg's Volti Vittora's w/matching sub in the same price range. http://www.voltiaudio.com/vittora.shtml - But here's the rub....you need a pretty big room for these.

Phelonious Ponk · Nov 13, 2013

+

mbovaird said:
My advice to everyone interested in the M2 is just to go hear it. I did - twice. They simply reminded me of a really good pair of DJ speakers. Sorry, I know I will take a lot of crap for that....but that's what I felt. If you have a big space and listen to rock music, well, they might float your boat. Despite the evolutions in the M2's horn design, I still noticed a hint of "honkyness".

I MUCH preferred Greg's Volti Vittora's w/matching sub in the same price range. http://www.voltiaudio.com/vittora.shtml - But here's the rub....you need a pretty big room for these.

Well, I'll give you none. Can't dispute a man's preference. I have a friend who prefers his old Klispchorns over everything else. He loves everything about them, listens to them many hours every week and thoroughly enjoys his music. There's nothing there to argue with.

Tim

mbovaird · Nov 13, 2013

Phelonious Ponk said:
+

Well, I'll give you none. Can't dispute a man's preference. I have a friend who prefers his old Klispchorns over everything else. He loves everything about them, listens to them many hours every week and thoroughly enjoys his music. There's nothing there to argue with.

Tim

My Dad is the same way. McIntosh + Khorns. He hasn't changed in years. Admittedly, it sounds really good.

joeinid · Nov 13, 2013

I still love my Cornwall III's

hiroshige · Nov 13, 2013

mbovaird said:
My advice to everyone interested in the M2 is just to go hear it. I did - twice. They simply reminded me of a really good pair of DJ speakers. Sorry, I know I will take a lot of crap for that....but that's what I felt. If you have a big space and listen to rock music, well, they might float your boat. Despite the evolutions in the M2's horn design, I still noticed a hint of "honkyness".

I MUCH preferred Greg's Volti Vittora's w/matching sub in the same price range. http://www.voltiaudio.com/vittora.shtml - But here's the rub....you need a pretty big room for these.

+1 No one can argue with the subjective impression of a speaker and with your experience with the gear you've had and heard I highly respect your opinion. Just for another data point, I had the opposite reaction. I heard them and was really impressed by how dynamic yet smooth they were. They just sounded so linear and transparent but without sounding bright. I typically don't like horn speakers but I thought they were as good as any audiophile speaker I heard without a hint of horn "honk". I heard the M2 multiple times, one following an audition of the Raidho C1.1 and another following a listen of the Alexia with D'agostino setup and all were certainly different but I thought the M2 was as good in many respects (not all) and better in others (top to bottom linearity and dynamics). I agree, would be really fun with rock music due to how dynamic they were but it did really well with a lot of the singer songwriter music I listen to as well sounding excellent at moderate and low volumes. An interesting speaker and like Mike agree one should listen first. On another note-the M2 is the anti-audiophile speaker. You have an additional A to D to A conversion within the crossover. You have to use phoenix connectors if using the SDEC-4500 active crossover so difficult to use higher end cables. They don't come in a fancy veneer. You probably need dealer support to setup the crossover/eq system so it makes switching out and trying all different kinds of amplifiers more difficult. It takes a lot of the fun out of tinkering in a 2 channel system. I wish I could hear those Volti speakers and maybe it's time I start checking out some DJ speakers

mbovaird · Nov 13, 2013

hiroshige said:
+1 No one can argue with the subjective impression of a speaker and with your experience with the gear you've had and heard I highly respect your opinion. Just for another data point, I had the opposite reaction. I heard them and was really impressed by how dynamic yet smooth they were. They just sounded so linear and transparent but without sounding bright. I typically don't like horn speakers but I thought they were as good as any audiophile speaker I heard without a hint of horn "honk". I heard the M2 multiple times, one following an audition of the Raidho C1.1 and another following a listen of the Alexia with D'agostino setup and all were certainly different but I thought the M2 was as good in many respects (not all) and better in others (top to bottom linearity and dynamics). I agree, would be really fun with rock music due to how dynamic they were but it did really well with a lot of the singer songwriter music I listen to as well sounding excellent at moderate and low volumes. An interesting speaker and like Mike agree one should listen first. On another note-the M2 is the anti-audiophile speaker. You have an additional A to D to A conversion within the crossover. You have to use phoenix connectors if using the SDEC-4500 active crossover so difficult to use higher end cables. They don't come in a fancy veneer. You probably need dealer support to setup the crossover/eq system so it makes switching out and trying all different kinds of amplifiers more difficult. It takes a lot of the fun out of tinkering in a 2 channel system. I wish I could hear those Volti speakers and maybe it's time I start checking out some DJ speakers

I listened to them with a friend of mine (Bart) from the local Suncoast Audiophile Society and John (from Audio Salon). Both of them really liked the M2's. So...count me in the minority.

I would encourage you to really hear the Volti speakers. Greg (the owner) is an awesome guy too. To me, the Volti's were like sitting front stage at a concert. I just don't have the room for them....argh.

hiroshige · Nov 13, 2013

I know we both agree on the Wilson Alexia. Alexia + D'agostino Momentum Mono amps + D'agostino Preamp + MSB dac is probably the most magical systems I've heard. Hard to leave every time I hear that combo.

mbovaird · Nov 13, 2013

hiroshige said:
I know we both agree on the Wilson Alexia. Alexia + D'agostino Momentum Mono amps + D'agostino Preamp + MSB dac is probably the most magical systems I've heard. Hard to leave every time I hear that combo.

No arguments here!! That's a DREAM system.

cjfrbw · Nov 13, 2013

The Volti/Border Patrol setups at RMAF 2013 was one of my favorite set ups.

I like my own home system a lot better than the much discussed Doshi/Alexia setup at RMAF 2013, or the Alexia/Spectral system at CAS 2013, which reflects nothing more than my home setup is geared to my taste and style, but the Volti could tempt me to try something new, especially if I had a larger room to experiment in.

There was a hi efficiency speaker called the Event Horizon (memory?) that was also notable, as well as the Classic Audio Loudspeakers/Atma-Sphere setup and the Sadurni horn systems. I think I would rather those than a relatively low efficiency horn system. For me, a large part of the charm of horn systems is conveying the wonders of DHT/tubed amplifiers. It is hard to imagine horn systems with high power solid state amps.

Gregadd · Nov 13, 2013

Well JBL finds itself on the horns of a dilema. Horns sound like a PA because they are used in PA systems One cure is an SET Triode. They are not know for flat frequency response. Flat frequency response or PA sound
;

?

Phelonious Ponk · Nov 13, 2013

mbovaird said:
My Dad is the same way. McIntosh + Khorns. He hasn't changed in years. Admittedly, it sounds really good.

I've had both Kiispch (La Scalas) and Altecs (Valencias), and left them behind decades ago. Old school horns can be very impressive, but they only sound good to me out of context. Give me something more linear to compare them to and their charm vanishes from my ears.

Tim

DSkip · Nov 13, 2013

Phelonious Ponk said:
I've had both Kiispch (La Scalas) and Altecs (Valencias), and left them behind decades ago. Old school horns can be very impressive, but they only sound good to me out of context. Give me something more linear to compare them to and their charm vanishes from my ears.

Tim

I've personally never been intrigued by any horn, but I admittedly don't play at the level of most on this site - I've only heard pairs with a $3k or under price tag. I hear fantastic things about them, but I've never experienced the magic people claim horns have.

With that said, I have often thought of playing around with a pair or two with my SET amps to get a feel for them in-house.

Bruce B · Nov 13, 2013

I have never heard a horn that I liked. The Avantgard came close.

These will be interesting to hear.

mep · Nov 13, 2013

Here is what I want to know: is the FR so ruler flat because the DSP has beat them into submission or are they just naturally that way? If the flat FR is a result of the DSP, what is the sonic thumbprint of the DSP?

Phelonious Ponk · Nov 13, 2013

mep said:
Here is what I want to know: is the FR so ruler flat because the DSP has beat them into submission or are they just naturally that way? If the flat FR is a result of the DSP, what is the sonic thumbprint of the DSP?

I don't think the big story here is the flat FR (good story, but secondary) so much as it is the consistency of the FR off axis and the breadth of the dispersion of that even FR. The result should be room reflections that vary little from the direct sound, and the implications of that would be very exciting, even if the FR weren't quite so flat.

Not sure that has anything to do with DSP, but if it does, is that a problem?

Tim

amirm · Nov 13, 2013

It is impossible to change the off-axis of the speaker using DSP. Any change the DSP makes will be upstream of the speaker and therefore will be reflected in both direct and indirect sound. So for sure that aspect is not due to signal processing.

Phelonious Ponk · Nov 14, 2013

And isn't the use of DSP here crossover and room correction, not flattening the output of the speaker system?

Tim

joeinid · Nov 14, 2013

jap said:
They're selling the M2 monitors and 2 Crown I-Tech 5000HD amplifiers for $19,998.

The M2s are $12K, so they're obviously selling these Crown amps for more than $1999. each.

Crown i-T5000 HD Power Amplifier

2-Channel I-Tech HD Series Power Amp with Onboard DSP - 2500 Watts per channel at 4 Ohms

The new I-Tech HD Series by Crown offers an unparalleled sound quality and delivers a ton of power for their small size and weight. The next generation DSP allows for more precise algorithms for system EQ and tuning.
Crown's new I-Tech HD series is available in three versions, the I-T5000, I-T9000 and the I-T12000.
Your Price: $5,958.75

Orb · Nov 14, 2013

Phelonious Ponk said:
And isn't the use of DSP here crossover and room correction, not flattening the output of the speaker system?

Tim

Grimm Audio use of DSP/active crossover was for a flat-smooth FR and better control of phase; their view (and there is a fair amount of DSP-mathematic-EE research engineer guys there) is not to overuse DSP in this role.
If curious they utilise Linkwitz-Riley 4th order I think but cannot remember the rest that goes with that (which is of course important I agree

).

Keith Howard has made comments in the past that for the best FR/smoothness in theory one would need active/DSP and the Grimm LS1 was one of the best he had seen.
That said the measurements of the Magico S5 gets pretty damn close to them (200hz to 20khz).
Cheers
Orb

Phelonious Ponk · Nov 14, 2013

Orb said:
Grimm Audio use of DSP/active crossover was for a flat-smooth FR and better control of phase; their view (and there is a fair amount of DSP-mathematic-EE research engineer guys there) is not to overuse DSP in this role.
If curious they utilise Linkwitz-Riley 4th order I think but cannot remember the rest that goes with that (which is of course important I agree ).

Keith Howard has made comments in the past that for the best FR/smoothness in theory one would need active/DSP and the Grimm LS1 was one of the best he had seen.
That said the measurements of the Magico S5 gets pretty damn close to them (200hz to 20khz).
Cheers
Orb

Thanks. I was wondering how much of Harman's use of DSP in these systems is aimed at flattening the response of the speaker vs room correction. I'd guess not much.

Tim

Intrigued by JBL M2 speaker system .... Opinions please ...

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