Newbie Magico Question

andromedaaudio

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Berylium dome tweeters have a berylium dome , soft dome tweeters have a fabric/ textile dome .
The dome is mounted to a thin ring(surround) that can flex(rubber or textile ) to the driver housing /mountplate , the dome is connected to the voice coil .
If you have a magico with a berylium dome it means its made of berylium , probably pressed to a cone shape via a press and then coated , the coating might seem non metalic to you.
berylium is very light and stiff , all tweeters are fragile as their goal is having a low mass among other things.
 
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squasher

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Interesting.....

I'll confirm later this evening but the dome of my tweeter (that is now pushed in) from my recollection had a "soft" feel to it.
 

a.dent

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I managed to do this to my S5 tweeter.

One evening recently, after a few reds, I was eager to listen and pulled the (magnetised) grille off too vigorously and managed to catch the tweeter with the corner of the grille. A very expensive bottle of wine.:(

I'm just waiting for the replacement, which I hope I can install myself.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29684&stc=1&d=1478322400
 

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andromedaaudio

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DSC_0076 by andromeda61, on Flickr

DSC_0439 by andromeda61, on Flickr

i managed to destroy a 20 mm diamond cone and those are very costly about 5 times more then berylium and much more then a ceramic accuton dome , one of the reasons i dont use them , i need stuff that can take a beating they are fragile imo

you can see the dome material in the pic above , the surround is also some fabric /textile , magico used a ringradiator version in the V 3 and mini, with a ringradiator the dome is connected in the middle also , to an alluminium radiator point which goes through the material so you cant call that one a dome officially ;)


PS if you ever wanna measure LS dont buy kirchner but a clio system instead
 
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andromedaaudio

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as far as listening without grills is better i dont know , i d rather have that scientifically tested to be honest .
In the audiofile world sometimes prejudice and quality gets mixed up without scientific proof , like big diameter cables sound better ,,,,, whatever.
The fabric covered avalons always sounded good to me , with the avalons its a must to keep them on imo as J atkinson demonstrated with measurments in an review , without grills it can sound around + 2db iirc on the bright side ( upper freq )

it could lead to some sort of self fulfilling prophecy , if 80 % of the audiophiles say grills deteriorate soundquality , manufacturers have to " listen " as you know what i mean;)

Ps the avalons have not only fabric but its laid in with felt , which leads to a free tip :) , if you expirience a ls with a too " hot " tweeter balance you can stick felt surround to them with a cut out of the tweeter off course not touching the surround and dome and be very carefull off course not to damage anything
Accuton makes its units with protection grill and they are widely used , a lot people like them so.....:confused:
metal grills dont absorb wool /felt does
 
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andromedaaudio

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If one goes through the scan speak datasheet list which is a very high regarded manufacturer , they give multiple offerings with and without grill .
I " think " the unit used in the s5 is listed here as well and it comes off factory with grill , so i dont think a grill is a big deal to be honest soundwise

http://www.scan-speak.dk/?page_id=160

for those interested if one goes to the home page of scanspeak , you can go through the picture menu and there is a picture with the frontplate off which shows the internals of what i think are berylium tweeters with the surround / dome shown and underneath 6 circular neodymium magnets
 
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Koegz

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My granddaughter (3yrs old) put her finger through both my q5 tweeters. Other then her 10 month old brother, probably the only person in the world I can't be mad at. Magico wanted, with shipping about $7000 to $8000. I found a used pair for $500. I replaced one yesterday. After the learning curve, I feel the 2nd will take 3 to 5 hours tops. Thinking about doing a video on the 2nd install and putting it on YouTube. They are great sounding speakers. Probably my final pair.
I'm just say'in ???
 

andromedaaudio

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Sorry i thought you meant S 5 i have never heard the Q 5 , probably my favourite balanced magicos ( s 5 ) together with the V 3 i would use tubes with them personally " i think " :D
 
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a.dent

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If one goes through the scan speak datasheet list which is a very high regarded manufacturer , they give multiple offerings with and without grill .
I " think " the unit used in the s5 is listed here as well and it comes off factory with grill , so i dont think a grill is a big deal to be honest soundwise

http://www.scan-speak.dk/?page_id=160

for those interested if one goes to the home page of scanspeak , you can go through the picture menu and there is a picture with the frontplate off which shows the internals of what i think are berylium tweeters with the surround / dome shown and underneath 6 circular neodymium magnets

I studied the Scanspeak website closely before deciding to order a genuine Magico replacement. I have a feeling the Magico tweeter is closely based on the D3004/664000 tweeter but without the grille.

I would have had to buy a pair of the Scanspeaks and replace both tweeters so the cost was close to one genuine Magico tweeter. Apart from SQ differences, resale value would have been compromised with non-genuine tweeters.
 

a.dent

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Nov 11, 2011
21
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388
Perth, Australia
My granddaughter (3yrs old) put her finger through both my q5 tweeters. Other then her 10 month old brother, probably the only person in the world I can't be mad at. Magico wanted, with shipping about $7000 to $8000. I found a used pair for $500. I replaced one yesterday. After the learning curve, I feel the 2nd will take 3 to 5 hours tops. Thinking about doing a video on the 2nd install and putting it on YouTube. They are great sounding speakers. Probably my final pair.
I'm just say'in ???

Luckily replacing my S5 tweeter should be a lot more straightforward than the Q5 tweeters.
 

microstrip

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I studied the Scanspeak website closely before deciding to order a genuine Magico replacement. I have a feeling the Magico tweeter is closely based on the D3004/664000 tweeter but without the grille.

I would have had to buy a pair of the Scanspeaks and replace both tweeters so the cost was close to one genuine Magico tweeter. Apart from SQ differences, resale value would have been compromised with non-genuine tweeters.

Even if the tweeter was a standard unit, manufacturers of quality speakers usually measure, select and match them, sometimes tailoring the crossover for the specific units. They keep these measurements, and if you need a replacement unit you send them the serial number of the speaker and they supply an exact match - at an higher cost, surely!

What we see in the manufacturer data sheets are typical measurements - sometimes the real units supplied to retail DIY shops show some significant deviation.
 

andromedaaudio

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Easy to say microstrip but dont you think scanspeak has quality control , show me the numbers or measurements / deviations , you are in a way accusing scanspeak of not delivering the goods .
IMO another case of mostly audiofile prejudice
 

microstrip

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Easy to say microstrip but dont you think scanspeak has quality control , show me the numbers or measurements / deviations , you are in a way accusing scanspeak of not delivering the goods .
IMO another case of mostly audiofile prejudice

I am not accusing anyone, particularly an high quality manufacturer such as Scanspeak, please do not change the sense of my message. I am addressing the way some quality high-end manufacturers select units for their speakers.

And yes I have experience replacing tweeters manufactured by Scanspeak in ProAc speakers - the same model sample bought some years after from an general UK retailer was 1.5 dB down the old, but still working tweeter.

Since long I have the habit of measuring speakers before they play them at home and comparing differential left and right, specially if getting used speakers. Even with new speakers I have detected differences of more than 2 dB in tweeters - in one case the manufacturer reacted sending me a pair of new matched tweeters.

What I am debating are the tolerances within a specification. And here usually we get what we are paying for ...

Anyway the Q5 uses a "custom 25mm MBe-1 Scan-Speak derived beryllium-dome tweeter", IMHO replacing it with a generic product would be a wrong decision.
 

andromedaaudio

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Just what i said , you question quality control .
You honestly believe that scanspeak will let a 600 euro illuminator pair of tweeters leave the factory with a 1, 5 db difference .
audiophiles believe and hear many things;)
I measure a lot as well never found those deviations in top of the range tw , what i did find is that with some cheaper models the low resonance freq doesnt match specs .
And what about all those optimistic LS manufacturer speaker efficiency numbers :confused: lol.

Ps nobody is gonna hear a 0,1 db deviation anyway.

Surely magico alters the berylium tw found in the q models , but besides a sandwhich mount and removed grill its anybodies guess until you compare them side by side , i m just saying i dont swallow all those " custom" designs so easy .
If all those scanspeak designs were so bad from the start then why are they using them .
 
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microstrip

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Just what i said , you question quality control .
You honestly believe that scanspeak will let a 600 euro illuminator pair of tweeters leave the factory with a 1, 5 db difference .
audiophiles believe and hear many things;)
I measure a lot as well never found those deviations in top of the range tw , what i did find is that with some cheaper models the low resonance freq doesnt match specs .
And what about all those optimistic LS manufacturer speaker efficiency numbers :confused: lol.

Ps nobody is gonna hear a 0,1 db deviation anyway.

Surely magico alters the berylium tw found in the q models , but besides a sandwhich mount and removed grill its anybodies guess until you compare them side by side , i m just saying i dont swallow all those " custom" designs so easy .
If all those scanspeak designs were so bad from the start then why are they using them .

I do not have data on the generic tweeter matching of the illuminators, I am not able to answer your question.

And yes, fortunately audiophiles believe and hear many things - otherwise sound quality of reproduced music would have stagnated forty hears ago. But, as you wisely say, each of us is free to hear what he wants to hear.
 

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