Reference tapemachine

andromedaaudio

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Something like that why not , portable would indeed be much more cost effective , my portable B 62 sounds better or at least as good as the A 80, my first aim would be portability not lightweight, nothing flimsy thats for sure only firstclass materials , portable would be great for making recordings yourself,and a noise free taperecorder please.
How does such a lyrec compare to the big studers by the way , overhere akai tape(playback ) recorders were the most common sold , although i never heard one , i am planning to vist a vintage restauration shop in the near future and hear all about those other brands ,
Does Lyrec PTR-1 "Frida" inspire another direction of thinking in R2R design? When you do away with heavy aluminum frame, portability become a reality! It could be an eye-catching machine which is fun to play, could be stylish too! When machine weights less, the manufacturing cost would be lower. Equipped with slim reel motors and capstan motor, editing capability like STUDER A820, what else can you complain in such a small footprint? I completely disassembled my Lyrec PTR-1 "Frida" once. It does not take too much effort to reassemble together. Putting A820 and "Frida" side by side is an interesting contrast?90kg v.s. 10kg, gigantic v.s. slim in size; go figuring cost for maintaining each. But "Frida" can still play 10.5" plus reels! (I like them both. They were witness of human endeavor worth preservation.)
 
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yjwu

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Jun 28, 2011
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Lyrec "Frida" can not compete A820's silky smooth tape handling, but its low profile print motor as spooling option is a big plus. Can we add "all roller tape path" as a rule and refine on it? As for portable but not lightweight, probably we can borrow the concept of light weight bicycle. Carbon fiber frame replaces ribbed aluminum frame, why not?
Once you can carry your R2R recorder around, new horizon emerges. At least you can bring your machine to your friend's place and audit many experiments on audio refinement. Or start field recording.....
Now it is truly a Re-corder!

Something like that why not , portable would indeed be much more cost effective , my portable B 62 sounds better or at least as good as the A 80, my first aim would be portability not lightweight, nothing flimsy thats for sure only firstclass materials , portable would be great for making recordings yourself,and a noise free taperecorder please.
How does such a lyrec compare to the big studers by the way , overhere akai tape(playback ) recorders were the most common sold , although i never heard one , i am planning to vist a vintage restauration shop in the near future and hear all about those other brands ,
 

stellavox

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Apr 23, 2010
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I continue to get a real "kick" out of this thread.

New tape deck - come on? There are plenty of good transports out there already. Can you make one with better "specs"? - better PRAT? What would YOU do BETTER?

Who has the resources? - or do you make a hybrid (bastard?) from the "best of" designs that you can scrounge parts from?

Portable / studio - line / mike inputs?

What heads to you put on it? One current manufacturer - who says they are the best? - so; make your own - gimme a break.

Electronics??? Has to be tube. NO. Transistor. OK, Hybrid. Transformers. NO. Direct coupled?

Then customers - OK maybe 5 from this forum; 5 from industry?

SO maybe the actual problem is that there is nothing NEW out there to buy. Let's fix that. Place to start is to design one. Now who wants to head up the committee?!

C
 

andromedaaudio

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This thread is openend to trigger people with money and ideas , imagine the design team of continuum would design a modern rtr deck , if it is the best deck surely there will be demand , plenty of people/companies around for which 250.000 $ is chumpchange , but who value high quality audio a lot
For me it is astounding that tape is regarded to be the ultimate possible recording medium by many pros /studios , but all they use is machines /technologie of 40 years old , which would make it pretty dated imo
 

Bruce B

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I continue to get a real "kick" out of this thread.

New tape deck - come on? There are plenty of good transports out there already. Can you make one with better "specs"? - better PRAT? What would YOU do BETTER?

Who has the resources? -

Who has the resources? Evidently Jtinn has as evidenced by his post #8 at the beginning of this thread.....
 

Hxt1

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Nov 28, 2011
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I continue to get a real "kick" out of this thread.

New tape deck - come on? There are plenty of good transports out there already. Can you make one with better "specs"? - better PRAT? What would YOU do BETTER?

Who has the resources? - or do you make a hybrid (bastard?) from the "best of" designs that you can scrounge parts from?

Portable / studio - line / mike inputs?

What heads to you put on it? One current manufacturer - who says they are the best? - so; make your own - gimme a break.

Electronics??? Has to be tube. NO. Transistor. OK, Hybrid. Transformers. NO. Direct coupled?

Then customers - OK maybe 5 from this forum; 5 from industry?

SO maybe the actual problem is that there is nothing NEW out there to buy. Let's fix that. Place to start is to design one. Now who wants to head up the committee?!

C
I have to agree with you here, Mr King. The 'problem' IS that there is nothing new out there to buy... as you say there are plenty of machines out there, and let's face it, the pro/pro-sumer/broadcast machines are workhorses, many engineered to run long hours day in day out with basic service/maintenance. The problem as I see it, isn't with the 'old' decks themselves, its the scarcity of parts, and the lack of techs to work on them... the techs have moved on with technology, and the manufacturers have too. The demand for a 'New' machine comes from (now I digress into personal opinion to a degree, bear with me) the folks who don't know or have limited experience with these machines. I don't think many folks out there realize that these machines were built like tanks in many instances, and the average guy like me wouldn't rack up a 100th of the hours these things are built to endure. I may have a 4-5 hr listening session once in a blue moon, if I'm lucky. Over my lifetime I may not put as many hours on the machine I have as it has racked up in a year in it's old environment , the world it was made to live in. Of course, when they sit they need some tlc but when you get into the Ampex/Studer/Otari/MCI pro units, I think we can agree the average audiophile won't outlive a good, low hour machine once brought to spec.(?)
The other concern, and a valid one, is that these machines are generally decades old... the repro/record electronics may be considered 'outdated' (that old chestnut) and full of old school, drifting, dying parts... BUT, that's where fellows like yourself come in!
There are new electronics available, High end, esoteric, SILLY even.... We can use these 'old' machines as transports, strap new, improved heads to them if we wish, and choose from, or even build custom output stages for them... there you have it, a SOTA tape playback machine.
Granted, in that exclusive world of $100,000 turntables, one would naturally pine for a $100,000 tape machine, I suppose... but I can only suppose for I do not operate in that lofty realm. I DO know that when I sat here in my living room and played my first open reel tape , a four track 7.5ips Revolver on a $40 akai 7" 4 track machine, and it blatantly kicked the snot out of any of my vinyl pressings on my 'great' (for a pleb) turntable I was depressed, having dumped time, money, faith, and hot air into that turntable and those records... yeah, I immediately wanted to get a 'real' tape machine and see what 15ips 2 track was like! Had it been a $100,000 'table and a safety copy on a pro deck K/C... maybe I would want a R2R to match my crazy TT?
That said, sitting here with my hot air spent, I must say it would be neat to see a new 'reference' tape machine... the 'best' money can buy and all that, and it would be great to hear just how 'good' it can get.
 

stellavox

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Apr 23, 2010
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John in Receiving.JPG Inspection.JPG Cookie - The BOSS.JPG Kudoe1.JPG This last Thursday, R Brown and I made our 2015 pilgrimage to the JRF Magnetics temple to have an audience with the Guru of Tape Heads, John French. Tried to attach some pictures but the upload failed.

One of the many topics we discussed was the concept of a "new" recorder. John indicated that there were some "preliminary" discussions with Mike Spitz - like making a transport with a granite base, but nothing came of it. John opined that a few decks, including the A820 and Sony APR did attain the "highest level" (my words) of tape handling, reliability (and simplicity). However it does appear that any "hopes" of a "21st century" deck may have died with Mike. The expertise "pool" is dwindling rapidly.

Charles


8/21/15 Postscript : Was finally able to upload the pictures from our "pilgrimage". You see John in the receiving/shipping "department"; his inspection area; "Cookie", his lovely wife (you have undoubtedly spoken with when you called) whom John unabashedly calls "the brains of the outfit"; and one of many "kudoe" pictures of a LONG list of devotees! I'll try to upload a pic of the relapping area. They are "retired" which means that they DON'T work on Fridays!
 
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Bruce B

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I d love to hear /see the Ampex 102 one day which iirc mike spitz(may he r.i.p. ) helped develop

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I had one with Aria electronics for about 3yr. and got rid of it. Sounded kinda' sterile to me. It didn't have the tape sound characteristics that most machines are known for. If I got another one, I'd use the stock electronics that came in them.
 

c1ferrari

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I had one with Aria electronics for about 3yr. and got rid of it. Sounded kinda' sterile to me. It didn't have the tape sound characteristics that most machines are known for. If I got another one, I'd use the stock electronics that came in them.

When I purchased my first reel-to-reel deck from Oasis Mastering and Eddy Schreyer https://oasismastering.com/legacy/oasis-mastering-history/, I had a choice between an ATR-102 and a Studer A820-2CH. Eddy described the ATR as more 'punchy' and 'rock-n-roll'...the Studer as 'smooth'. He wanted to keep one deck -- whichever one I did not choose. Both decks had stock heads and electronics.
 

rad

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Jun 13, 2010
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I had one with Aria electronics for about 3yr. and got rid of it. Sounded kinda' sterile to me. It didn't have the tape sound characteristics that most machines are known for. If I got another one, I'd use the stock electronics that came in them.

I don't know if I totally agree with the ( Sterile ) statement on the ATR102! I'm able to switch back & forth between the stock electronics & the Aria, I find the Aria adds a bit more life to the recordings.

The stock electronics are very good as well. By no means would I degrade either as we are splitting hairs now.

c1ferrari quoted (ATR as more 'punchy' and 'rock-n-roll'...the Studer as 'smooth'.) I would agree to that...

Compared to my other decks I prefer the sound of my A820 flux heads with the Doshi tape pre as my ultimate combo now.
But don't sell the ATR102 short, it's fantastic in it's own right!

Just my 2 cents,

Gary
 

tony ky ma

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Aug 21, 2010
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That studio has quite a trackrecord artist wise , anybody ever heard telefunken master recorders

Telefunken M15A is a very beautiful machine , a very strong and solid in construction . but the stock amp's design is too many IC in use, so I like Studer'sound better. I did put a B62' repro amp with a tube modified to a M15A sound much better (pictures posted in here)
tony ma
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I've not heard the ATR-102 with the Aria.

when I had the stock Ampex ATR-102 with my Studer A-820, I preferred the performance of the stock ATR-102 to the stock A-820. the ATR has a bit more detail and life. I do prefer the Studer A-820 with the King Cello to the stock ATR-102 in my system.

later I did get an 1/2" Studer A-820 with the trafoless output cards that eliminates the output transformer. since it was 1/2" it was not possible to directly compare that to the ATR-102 but no doubt the Studer was a bit better with the trafoless card output.

at shows I have often listened to a stock ATR-102 and that is the best 1/4" tape I've heard out of my room for sure.
 

andromedaaudio

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These are also nice machines, ....i mean they sound nice on you tube :D
An ampex ATR 102 is obviously more expensive for us in europe because of shipping .
I was also thinking of getting maybe a 1/2 inch recorder , is there actually any software for sale in the 1/2 inch format???
They do seem to have more resolution because of the wider tape and a better s/n ratio as i understood from mr de paravicini


telefunken by andromeda61, on Flickr

M21 telefunken by andromeda61, on Flickr


ear atr by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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www.pugetsoundstudios.com
I've not heard the ATR-102 with the Aria.

when I had the stock Ampex ATR-102 with my Studer A-820, I preferred the performance of the stock ATR-102 to the stock A-820. the ATR has a bit more detail and life. I do prefer the Studer A-820 with the King Cello to the stock ATR-102 in my system.

later I did get an 1/2" Studer A-820 with the trafoless output cards that eliminates the output transformer. since it was 1/2" it was not possible to directly compare that to the ATR-102 but no doubt the Studer was a bit better with the trafoless card output.

at shows I have often listened to a stock ATR-102 and that is the best 1/4" tape I've heard out of my room for sure.



I don't know if I totally agree with the ( Sterile ) statement on the ATR102! I'm able to switch back & forth between the stock electronics & the Aria, I find the Aria adds a bit more life to the recordings.

The stock electronics are very good as well. By no means would I degrade either as we are splitting hairs now.

c1ferrari quoted (ATR as more 'punchy' and 'rock-n-roll'...the Studer as 'smooth'.) I would agree to that...

Compared to my other decks I prefer the sound of my A820 flux heads with the Doshi tape pre as my ultimate combo now.
But don't sell the ATR102 short, it's fantastic in it's own right!

Just my 2 cents,

Gary

Rad and Mike, I'd have to respectfully disagree. Aside from features, I don't know the appeal of the A820. Stock or with Doshi electronics, it will never attain the sonics of the A80RC MkII machines. I run both with stock electronics and with outboard pre's and still the A80RC is IMHO, the better sonically. The A820 just seems to make everything a little more bland. It takes the edge off and makes everything sound the same.... no excitement! I'd go with the A80 and stock ATR any day! I'd tell anyone in Europe to get a Studer A80 with outboard pre's and be done with it.
 
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andromedaaudio

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I need to get my A 80 completely refurbished , it is working but thats just about it , the stock audio cards in the B 62 and the A 80 are the same by the way , i dont know about the A 80 RC mk 2
 

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