Is Spectral sensitive to resonances
- Thread starter Adimon
- Start date
Hi Adimon,
Unfortunately, do not know Spectral.
I can say that after trying a number of different kinds of isolation, I have found excellent results with 2 options: 1) Stillpoints Ultra 5s with HRS Nimbus Couplers on top, or b) HRS Nimbus Couplers with HRS M3 Base. I then put HRS DPXII dampers or Artesania dampers on top...this applies to all my electronics.
If you wish to go up in price, there are the active isolation platforms like Halcyonics which I know people absolutely love...but they are even more expensive.
Unfortunately, do not know Spectral.
I can say that after trying a number of different kinds of isolation, I have found excellent results with 2 options: 1) Stillpoints Ultra 5s with HRS Nimbus Couplers on top, or b) HRS Nimbus Couplers with HRS M3 Base. I then put HRS DPXII dampers or Artesania dampers on top...this applies to all my electronics.
If you wish to go up in price, there are the active isolation platforms like Halcyonics which I know people absolutely love...but they are even more expensive.
Adimon, I have to agree with LL21 here. I don't know spectral either...but nearly all high end gear responds in a negative way to vibration. Some of the current best protection against this comes from firms like Grand Prix Audio, HRS, Stillpoints, Silent Running Audio and Symposium. I am sure I am missing a few others manufacturers.
In my system I use the Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 racks. I can say from personal experience the Grand Prix Audio SilverStone racks have made a major improvement to my system in terms of lower noise floor, increased resolution and focus, more natural portrayal across the frequency spectrum.
Honestly the racks are on the order of magnitude of a new component. In fact, I now consider my racks as a component and couldn't listen to my system without it....
In my system I use the Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 racks. I can say from personal experience the Grand Prix Audio SilverStone racks have made a major improvement to my system in terms of lower noise floor, increased resolution and focus, more natural portrayal across the frequency spectrum.
Honestly the racks are on the order of magnitude of a new component. In fact, I now consider my racks as a component and couldn't listen to my system without it....
Totally agree with JFrech...for me, my entire 'isolation system' is essential to me, and I consider it a component in and of itself. I consider it an imperative to include it separately when I describe my system because it has proven that important to me. I have only recently just finished 4-5 weeks intensive work getting the isolation system as perfect as I can get it...and I am finally back to just enjoying all kinds of music...and I am discovering stuff over and over again in my albums, but not in any way missing any of the elements of my music I have always enjoyed. Lots of fun.
I have to assume Spectrals are to some degree susceptible to vibrations, if their Sorbothane feet of older models are any indication. So I have bought some Sorbothane pucks for my amps, preamp and transport, with varying hardness ratings (based on the supported weight) and thicknesses. I have to assume Stillpoints would be even better, but I can't spend that kinda money. As for audible improvements... I am not really sure to be honest; but with these pucks plus EAR Isodamp in other places (like the turntable), yes there is clearly much less smearing, but I can't be sure where they've made the most improvement (other than the turntable, which is easy to hear by tapping around).
It's not clear from the pictures, but underneath them there is a thin protective film, and between them and the equipment's feet I have placed appropriate size metal washers
It's not clear from the pictures, but underneath them there is a thin protective film, and between them and the equipment's feet I have placed appropriate size metal washers
I had been using the now-discontinued Stillpoints cones under all my gear, including my Spectral amp and preamp. I had considered these a must.
Last month I got my very first set of three Stillpoints Ultras. I swapped these for the cones under my amp. My jaw hit the floor - this was not a subtle improvement. All those qualities that I love about the Spectral sound were improved, as if I upgraded to a better Spectral amp. I picked this set up used for about $550 and I cannot think of another way to get that big of a bump for that kind of money. The magnitude of improvement actually left me thinking that the Ultras would have been a bargain for the full price (though in fairness, my entire system was floated on Stillpoints technology, so these certainly enhanced the Ultra's effectiveness).
Second set of Ultras went under the preamp. Not as big of a bump as under the amp, but again all the positive qualities for which Spectral is known were improved.
Last week Ultras replaced the cones under my speakers and under my phono stage. Placing them under my speakers is among the most significant upgrades I have ever done. My speakers are now doing things I have only heard done by far more expensive speakers. When considering all the Ultras added recently together, there is no other upgrade I can think of that did as much to increase the sense that I am hearing real instruments being played by real people in my listening room.
The Ultras are a big step up from the discontinued cones. But the cones are absolutely worth grabbing at their current price. It's far better to get an entire system floated on Stillpoints technology of some kind than to just have a few components on a Ultras.
Last month I got my very first set of three Stillpoints Ultras. I swapped these for the cones under my amp. My jaw hit the floor - this was not a subtle improvement. All those qualities that I love about the Spectral sound were improved, as if I upgraded to a better Spectral amp. I picked this set up used for about $550 and I cannot think of another way to get that big of a bump for that kind of money. The magnitude of improvement actually left me thinking that the Ultras would have been a bargain for the full price (though in fairness, my entire system was floated on Stillpoints technology, so these certainly enhanced the Ultra's effectiveness).
Second set of Ultras went under the preamp. Not as big of a bump as under the amp, but again all the positive qualities for which Spectral is known were improved.
Last week Ultras replaced the cones under my speakers and under my phono stage. Placing them under my speakers is among the most significant upgrades I have ever done. My speakers are now doing things I have only heard done by far more expensive speakers. When considering all the Ultras added recently together, there is no other upgrade I can think of that did as much to increase the sense that I am hearing real instruments being played by real people in my listening room.
The Ultras are a big step up from the discontinued cones. But the cones are absolutely worth grabbing at their current price. It's far better to get an entire system floated on Stillpoints technology of some kind than to just have a few components on a Ultras.
Not trying to be negative here, just trying to understand, but how does raising amps, or pre-amps improve the overall sound ? I have a pair of original DMA200's which weigh in at 92 lbs each. They are on the original puck style supports that Spectral used. The only thing I have done was to have custom granite bases made at 4" thick. When in use, this amp does get extremely hot ( being Class A amp ) in which the 2 speed fan kicks in ( fairly quiet ) Now weighing in at 92 lbs, I would think that any vibrations would be at least minimal if any at all.
I can see raising Turntables, speakers, and CD players due to limit vibrations but am totally missing the point as to the other gear involved
I can see raising Turntables, speakers, and CD players due to limit vibrations but am totally missing the point as to the other gear involved
You are not "raising" them - you are suspending them on vibration-dissipation equipment, to convert vibrations to heat.
I understand what your saying, and I loosely used the word raised ( even by cone, puck etc ) but I am trying to understand how a amp, for example can produce enough of a vibration that one can notice a sound difference. I, as mentioned earlier, can understand isolating the vibrations on TT, cd players and speakers but not the other gear involved
The amp itself is not producing the vibration per se, it's how susceptible it is to external vibrations, primarily from the speakers. To give you an extreme but real example, recall early reverb amps - they employed springs internally to produce the effect (I have built multiple such preamps when I was a kid) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverberation. Microphonics is a real problem that also affects capacitors, and I would assume transistors too. Perhaps Amir can dig up a video or two on the subject.
Transformers buzz - so yes some (most?) componts do generate vibration internally.
A good read about what Stillpoints do:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/stillpoints.htm
A good read about what Stillpoints do:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/stillpoints.htm
All i can say is i NEVER thought a 176 pound amp built as beautifully as Gryphon Colosseum would benefit from isolation. One day, i happened to have a spare Auralex isolation platform...stuck it under the Colosseum. Surprise, surprise...guess its the wood flooring? In the end, the Auralex platform could not take the weight of the Colosseum safely, and we switched to Ultra 5s (which each can take 3,000lbs according to the creater...see Peter's video interviewing him)...incredible difference. clarity and soundstage depth are the primary improvements. (I also damp the chassis using Artsesania damper on top with brass weight.) YMMV!
Probably, but the Spectral amps under discussion go to great lengths to isolate the transformers: The twin power transformers are mounted between massive machined mounting plates for damping and resonance control. The combined 38 lb. Transformer structure is then mounted on a constrained rubber floating suspension system similar to a fine turntable suspension.
Yes and I'm certain that my DMA-150 Mk2 has one of those suspension systems, as Spectral had to repair it earlier this year (the suspension got damaged when I shipped my amp back to them to repair something else). And yet Stillpoints brought very noticeable improvements under my amp. So quite possibly it has more to do the Stillpoints keeping external vibration from entering my amp.
But why rule out the possibility that there are other sources of internal vibration? Maybe what Roy Gregory wrote is correct that "capacitors, resistors, ICs and output devices in the signal path all vibrate as they pass that signal". If he's right, then we'll get to better performance from our Spectral gear if we are somehow able to drain that vibration out of our amps.
Either way, I would have to say that my Spectral amp has shown itself to be very sensitive to resonances, which is the question the OP asked originally. Even the older Stillpoints cones made a very noticeable improvement under my amp. What was probably improved most was purity of tone. Vibration had been smearing this. I'm not so sure one can appreciate how amazing Spectral can perform without proper resonance control. I consider resonance control to be just as important as as proper cabling and proper power delivery - or maybe even more so.
Let your ears decide. Take 4 Stillpoint Ultra SSs, put under the amp, and listen before and after. I did with my 260, and they are not coming back out!
Yes Spectral equipments are sensitive to vibrations but you can minimise it by using good equipment rack.
When I auditioned my Spectral Pre / Power amp, they where auditioned on Finite Elemente racks. By putting HRS damping plates on top, the sound was significantly improved.
At home I have HNE Systems granite rack sitting on top of Finite Elemente Cerabase Classic, adding the HRS damping plates on top my equipments made no difference as the HNE rack / Finite Elemente feet were doing such a good job.
But I do use the Black Ravioli isolation feet under the Spectral pre amp, which does improve the sound.
When I auditioned my Spectral Pre / Power amp, they where auditioned on Finite Elemente racks. By putting HRS damping plates on top, the sound was significantly improved.
At home I have HNE Systems granite rack sitting on top of Finite Elemente Cerabase Classic, adding the HRS damping plates on top my equipments made no difference as the HNE rack / Finite Elemente feet were doing such a good job.
But I do use the Black Ravioli isolation feet under the Spectral pre amp, which does improve the sound.
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