RMAF 2013: Gear worth making the trip to Denver to hear... And not!

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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Let's cut to the chase : any room playing analog tape was a very good or great. Dr. Von schweikert's room using constellation gear and greg beron's analog tape machine was by far the best. Mbl, using their middleweight system was outstanding and also a best of show contender, but I missed the bass slam of the bigger 101 e speakers, but that system is in another price point. Doshi/ joshi room was good but most disappointing of the 3 analog tape rooms I heard. Definitely doshi / alexia is jr varsity compared to mbl and Von Schweikert. Doshi/ Alexia highs were a bit sibilant at times and the Alexia speakers did not have the bass heft of the VTL Alexia room or the D'agostino amps that make the Alexia sound like one of the greatest speakers in the world, despite being a super middle weight.

Speaking of Alexia's, I found them quite sterile with the new VTL Amps and was wishing my VTL 750 was driving this system, or of course, the superb D'agostino amps. A poor showing of Alexias at RMAF this year, compared to the standard I know Alexias are capable of.

The Wilson xlf with Thor hammers driven by vtl had some of the best dynamic bass I have ever heard , but overall this was a Hifi demo, as the system did not sound like natural music. The whole time I was wishing someone would knock on the door and cart over the new vac 450 iq amps onto that room. There were a lot of media and industry Elites attending the Wilson xlf demo, and I wonder if they will have the intellectual honesty to report the truth (what I am saying).

Speaking of natural sound, the Nola Metro Grand Reference Gold speakers went straight to the heart. Carl may not use the latest gimmick in his design, but Nola Metro Gold Reference the speaker makes music and goes straight to your heart. The only thing this system lacked was big explosive bass, but that is not what Carl intended with this design. The new nola speaker driven by arc ref 75 is just superb.

Another very natural sounding speaker is the Scaena. It was also driven by arc ref 75. Utilizing 6 subwoofers, on superb recordings, the system was MAGICAL. You just sit back, close your eyes, and find bliss with Scaena. No wonder why Harry Pearson has these as his reference.

The exact opposite of the spectrum was magico q1 driven by spectral, using super expensive MIT cables and $20k interconnects. No i don't hate magico. I'm actually trying really hard to find a good magico system. Magico is voiced to bring out the upper midrange and lower treble, and this system really showed That off. I know a lot of media and some members on this site really like Magico. God Bless those people for finding something that they love. Unfortunately, I wasted 15 precious minutes of my life and I truly regret it. Just a God Awful system. The Magico S1 driven by krell was a bit better, but it was going to my head instead of my heart.

Coming back up great sounding rooms, I was most surprised by YG. I always thought they were just alright. But the new Sonja sounds much more musical to me than previous models. Great jump factor, resolution, soundstaging, and tonality. Would liked to have the extra bass module,. Also, would loved to have some Absoloare electronics or Ypsilon or the VAC statement gear driving the YG's. Nevertheless, YG / Mola Mola with Kubala Sosna cables is a world class system, and one of the best of the show.

Overall, Von schweikert/ constellation / Greg baron , YG, Nola, and Scaena were my favorites.

Just remember Shakespeare's quote from As You Like It, and substitute "great sound" for "happiness": Oh! how bitter a thing it is to look into happiness through another man's eyes.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Caesar, thanks for posting your thoughts. Interesting to see that you thought the "Wilson XLF demo was a Hifi demo and not sounding like natural music". On the other thread, Steve states that he unequivocally thought the demo was the best he has ever heard! ( although you did say that the bass was the best dynamically that you have ever heard) ( which does NOT surprise me too much considering the number and size of the drivers and the room utilized). To me, what is more interesting is the value that people in our hobby put on certain aspects of reproduction of sound. ( yours would seem to be different to Steve's,as an example). Not saying there is anything wrong in that....just interesting:).
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
If we all agreed on what we like we wouldn't need to have these shows. As far as Nola. Very good but give me a break as they had over $40K of Odin cable for a $10K speaker

I agree about YG. Wonderful sound but didn't stir my juices.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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If we all agreed on what we like we wouldn't need to have these shows. As far as Nola. Very good but give me a break as they had over $40K of Odin cable for a $10K speaker

I agree about YG. Wonderful sound but didn't stir my juices.

Steve, absolutely correct. This is more than borne out by the number of exhibitor's who display gear that most of us wouldn't want in our system's and yet some people swear by their stuff. Universality is something that is definitely amiss in our hobby..which is what makes it so interesting, at least to me. What I have found at these shows ( MY opinion ONLY) is that it is a LOT easier to name the rooms that do NOT sound good than those that do. Yet, If you ask two a'philes what they think...you will get four opinions, LOL.:D
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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You should have seen the grief I took when I posted about a most disappointing Dynaudio 5.1 setup. It was paired with some Octave and T+A gear and I had to leave the room. I've also demo'ed the top tier Dynaudio speakers, and colour me unimpressed. Different strokes for different folks!
 

DSkip

Industry Expert
Aug 26, 2013
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You should have seen the grief I took when I posted about a most disappointing Dynaudio 5.1 setup. It was paired with some Octave and T+A gear and I had to leave the room. I've also demo'ed the top tier Dynaudio speakers, and colour me unimpressed. Different strokes for different folks!

A friend of mine owns the C1's, and though they are nice, they just don't do it for me. He has always loved Dynaudio, but for the going rate of those speakers, I could definitely find a better alternative to suit my needs. I will say this - he bought them second hand and they did have some time on them. However, throwing in Depeche Mode's new album and giving it a solid run made them sound like they woke up. Everything I heard after that CD just seemed to sound better.

I was really hoping to get out there this year but it wasn't in the cards. I'm a regular at LSAF, but it is nowhere near the scope of a "real" show like RMAF. Can't wait to get to one of them and get my ears on some of the upper echelon gear.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Caesar, thanks for posting your thoughts. Interesting to see that you thought the "Wilson XLF demo was a Hifi demo and not sounding like natural music". On the other thread, Steve states that he unequivocally thought the demo was the best he has ever heard! ( although you did say that the bass was the best dynamically that you have ever heard) ( which does NOT surprise me too much considering the number and size of the drivers and the room utilized). To me, what is more interesting is the value that people in our hobby put on certain aspects of reproduction of sound. ( yours would seem to be different to Steve's,as an example). Not saying there is anything wrong in that....just interesting:).

One of my favourite things about the big Wilsons is that when in the hands of a great set up expert, they can sound so many different ways depending on your tastes (and of course electronics/room). I heard the changes in my room and we spent about a third of the time during set up getting them to sound 'right' according to my tastes and my music, AFTER they set them up according to my room and the basic science. One cannot say that about every speaker, and that customization is a critical part of the big Wilsons which I admire and enjoy.

What is important also is that the XLFs seem more structurally inert than their predecessors, more seamless/coherent and more effortless...all good attributes to have in any event.

At the end of the day, customization still does not guarantee its for everyone, but its a big plus imho.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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It's the whole LP vs digital, tubes vs SS, planars vs cones, boxes vs open baffle etc. that to some degree characterizes different audiophiles. We all use slightly different "cues" to identify audio preferences. The trick in reading reviews (by anyone, professional or not) is to identify "cues" in the reviewer as well.
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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What I have found at these shows ( MY opinion ONLY) is that it is a LOT easier to name the rooms that do NOT sound good than those that do.
And, typically, the analysis yields divergent conclusions :b

Yet, If you ask two a'philes what they think...you will get four opinions, LOL.:D
;)
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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It's the whole LP vs digital, tubes vs SS, planars vs cones, boxes vs open baffle etc. that to some degree characterizes different audiophiles. We all use slightly different "cues" to identify audio preferences. The trick in reading reviews (by anyone, professional or not) is to identify "cues" in the reviewer as well.

Surely. If you do not know well the reviewer, the whole review is useless.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Let's cut to the chase : any room playing analog tape was a very good or great. Dr. Von schweikert's room using constellation gear and greg beron's analog tape machine was by far the best.

In your opinion.

Doshi/ joshi room was good but most disappointing of the 3 analog tape rooms I heard. Definitely doshi / alexia is jr varsity compared to mbl and Von Schweikert. Doshi/ Alexia highs were a bit sibilant at times and the Alexia speakers did not have the bass heft of the VTL Alexia room or the D'agostino amps that make the Alexia sound like one of the greatest speakers in the world, despite being a super middle weight.

I think you are out to lunch with that comment. Everyone I talked to was blown away by the Paragon Audio/Doshi room. Maybe you stopped by when they were playing a tape that wasn't up to your standards just as other people certainly could have said about the other rooms playing tape. Not all tape sounds great unfortunately. The sound of LPs being played in the Paragon/Doshi room was magical. When I needed to recharge my batteries after suffering through some dreadful rooms, I always found myself going back to the Paragon/Doshi room.



Another very natural sounding speaker is the Scaena. It was also driven by arc ref 75. Utilizing 6 subwoofers, on superb recordings, the system was MAGICAL. You just sit back, close your eyes, and find bliss with Scaena. No wonder why Harry Pearson has these as his reference.

There was nothing "natural" about the sound of the Scaena speakers, especially when they were cranked up past the point the 6 massive woofers could tolerate. I heard the Sheffield drum album on this system at a level that far exceeded the capabilities of the woofers and it turned the kick drum head from skin to rubber. Of course the guy who gave the demo remarked that the Drum Record CD was far better than the D2D LP which is pure nonsense for those who have heard both. The CD is almost laughable in comparison. The subs used with the Scaena look cartoonish and remind me of what a teenage boy with bad skin might dream about cramming in his car so he could go "boom-boom" down the street. Never mind WAF, I wouldn't have those subs in my house. Without those subs, I think the main drivers are capable of being very good sounding. With the subs and the levels they were playing at, this was a hi-fi demonstration to the extreme. The Wilson demonstration paled in comparison to this. At least the Wilson presentation was clean and distortion free with bass that sounded like actual bass.

It's quite obvious that you and I don't hear the same. I'm surprised that you were there and didn't say anything to anyone and attend the dinner.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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It's quite obvious that you and I don't hear the same. I'm surprised that you were there and didn't say anything to anyone and attend the dinner.

Well, duh... It should be quite obvious that there are a wide variety of listening preferences here at WBF, which is how it should be (I think).

BTW, Mark, did you ever respond to my question about your current equipment profile (in the other RAMF thread)?
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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So, was YG my bud, Bill Parish (GTT Audio?) And were they using Veloce or something else to power them?
Sorry I missed seeing you guys-
I think (having not been there, i can be completely objective), that it does come down to preference at a certain level.
Leaving aside show conditions.
And what the heck good is listening to the Sheffield Drum record? (I have all those 'audiophile' records, and never listen to any of them).
By the way, not to nitpick, but shouldn't this thread go in the designated show report slot, not in 'general'?
Best,
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Well, duh... It should be quite obvious that there are a wide variety of listening preferences here at WBF, which is how it should be (I think).

BTW, Mark, did you ever respond to my question about your current equipment profile (in the other RAMF thread)?

Sorry, I missed your question before. Are you wondering if my current equipment profile is really current? I'm quite open and honest about my gear and my room. I will have to check my profile and see if I have listed the LS50 speakers because that is the only thing that has changed.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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So, was YG my bud, Bill Parish (GTT Audio?) And were they using Veloce or something else to power them?
Sorry I missed seeing you guys-
I think (having not been there, i can be completely objective), that it does come down to preference at a certain level.
Leaving aside show conditions.
And what the heck good is listening to the Sheffield Drum record? (I have all those 'audiophile' records, and never listen to any of them).
By the way, not to nitpick, but shouldn't this thread go in the designated show report slot, not in 'general'?
Best,


Bill-The only "good" about listening to the Drum Record is that it was designed to be a system evaluation tool. You are told what to listen for and what you should hear if your system has the resolution. It's not an album you put on to relax and get into the groove so to speak. Why the guy who was doing the demo chose to play it I have no idea. It certainly wasn't requested while I was sitting in the room.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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Sorry, I missed your question before. Are you wondering if my current equipment profile is really current? I'm quite open and honest about my gear and my room. I will have to check my profile and see if I have listed the LS50 speakers because that is the only thing that has changed.
I don't think the LS50's are listed, but weren't you selling them anyway? I ask only because some frequent posters' systems have changed (microstrip recently got Alexia's, for example, and I was updating my own profile this week), and you also made a comment (I believe) about your system getting everything out a particular tape. It seemed from your post that you were comparing it to the sound in the Doshi room, so I was curious; then again, I may have misunderstood.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I don't think the LS50's are listed, but weren't you selling them anyway? I ask only because some frequent posters' systems have changed (microstrip recently got Alexia's, for example, and I was updating my own profile this week), and you also made a comment (I believe) about your system getting everything out a particular tape. It seemed from your post that you were comparing it to the sound in the Doshi room, so I was curious; then again, I may have misunderstood.

I just updated my profile to include the LS50s and the Sound Anchor stands they sit on. I never compared the sound in my room to the Doshi room so you must have been thinking about someone/something else. In fact, I haven't compared the sound of my room/system to any room at RMAF 2013. I do want to listen to Neil Young's Live at Massey Hall because I heard some things in the Paragon/Doshi room playing that LP that I don't remember hearing in my system. And the funny thing was, I was just sitting there listening to Neal Young in the Paragon/Doshi room and the sounds I was hearing were just there in a non-audiophile sort of way. In other words, it just sounded beautiful and the tone and harmonics coming off of Neal's acoustic guitar were presented in a way that sounded very real. It wasn't something you had to sit and concentrate on to hear, it just washed over you. What I'm afraid of is that when I listen to it now, it might not sound like that and I will find myself concentrating to hear what I know is there now and which I know you shouldn't have to concentrate to hear. I hope that makes sense.
 

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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It's good to know our tapes were played in the Doshi room , the mbl room, the Von Schweikert room and the Focal/Audio Plus rooms.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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It's good to know our tapes were played in the Doshi room , the mbl room, the Von Schweikert room and the Focal/Audio Plus rooms.

Not to mention the fact that you lent Nick Doshi one of your Studer A80 decks and Nick had nothing but good things to say about it in comparison to the Technics deck he brought with him to the show.
 

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