HRS MXR Double Wide Audio Stand

spiritofmusic

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I know, NorthStar, the sound may be so good as to JUST avoid a blanket condemnation. If one is told a wait is going to be this long at the outset, or there are unforseen delays and the customer is kept informed, I guess this could be tolerable. But I get the impression that none of these applied.
I run my own business, and realise that my interaction with clients is as important as the service I provide; so I'm really sensitive to such shortfalls, and don't accept them in the businesses I seek out.
listen, i don't want to be a downer on this thread which is to celebrate Frank's new purchase. He certainly approves of the sound. Just feel these negatives often go by forum members here without proper criticism.
 

rockitman

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i don't want to be a downer on this thread which is to celebrate Frank's new purchase. He certainly approves of the sound. Just feel these negatives often go by forum members here without proper criticism.

Really ??? try some uppers Spirit. IMO, the HRS is the best rack made period. How do I know this ? My TechDAS turntable platform is custom made by HRS for the TechDAS. Well engineered, heavy, solid and isolates real well.
 

Frank750

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I know, NorthStar, the sound may be so good as to JUST avoid a blanket condemnation. If one is told a wait is going to be this long at the outset, or there are unforseen delays and the customer is kept informed, I guess this could be tolerable. But I get the impression that none of these applied.
I run my own business, and realise that my interaction with clients is as important as the service I provide; so I'm really sensitive to such shortfalls, and don't accept them in the businesses I seek out.
listen, i don't want to be a downer on this thread which is to celebrate Frank's new purchase. He certainly approves of the sound. Just feel these negatives often go by forum members here without proper criticism.

Spirit, I agree with you. Believe me, I was expressing my displeasure from week 10 right up until the rack arrived. I am not absolving HRS because the rack is an excellent product. I was never even given a reason for the continuous delays. I would have cancelled around week 15 but they had my payment in full so it wasn't an option. That (full upfront payment) will never happen again with anything.
 

spiritofmusic

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Hi Christian, agree with you re the uppers - have just listened to my tt supported on the superlative Symposium Isis/Rollerblocks and feel "on the up" already. In my experience anyhow, the Isis has the edge in my system over the HRS when I compared them together.
Thanks for agreeing with me Frank. I guess you're mighty relieved it sounds as good as it does to offset the frustration of the wait.
 

PeterA

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the HRS is the best rack made period. How do I know this ? My TechDAS turntable platform is custom made by HRS for the TechDAS. Well engineered, heavy, solid and isolates real well.

Hi Christian, Have you had a chance to try the TechDas on your Herzan active isolation platform yet? I wonder how that would compare to the HRS custom platform.
 

rockitman

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Hi Christian, Have you had a chance to try the TechDas on your Herzan active isolation platform yet? I wonder how that would compare to the HRS custom platform.

No, not yet, it's a lot of work partially disassembling the the clearaudio and tech das in order to try it. If I do, it will be with the HRS platform on top of the Herzan. When I do get around to trying it, if there is an improvement I will get another one for the techdas. I am running the Clearaudio as a dedicated mono record/cart playback. The TechDAS playback as it stands now is on a different level than the Clearaudio. It's noise floor is so low and it's ability to dampen record surface noise, particularly on Classical pieces, it can almost fool you that a CD is playing from a background noise floor standpoint. Perhaps the herzan can do even more.
 

Frank750

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No, not yet, it's a lot of work partially disassembling the the clearaudio and tech das in order to try it. If I do, it will be with the HRS platform on top of the Herzan. When I do get around to trying it, if there is an improvement I will get another one for the techdas. I am running the Clearaudio as a dedicated mono record/cart playback. The TechDAS playback as it stands now is on a different level than the Clearaudio. It's noise floor is so low and it's ability to dampen record surface noise, particularly on Classical pieces, it can almost fool you that a CD is playing from a background noise floor standpoint. Perhaps the herzan can do even more.

Have you tried the TechDAS without the HRS? I'm amazed how much quieter vinyl is since putting the SME on the Harmonic Resolutions rack. I expected improvement but not to this level.
 

rockitman

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Have you tried the TechDAS without the HRS? I'm amazed how much quieter vinyl is since putting the SME on the Harmonic Resolutions rack. I expected improvement but not to this level.

Nope. Spent a pretty penny on it and it has machined detents that perfectly fit both the TT's 3 feet and the Motor's 3 feet. I just wish I had an entire rack. Maybe next year. I'm pretty tapped after the TechDAS and accessories, the MIT SHD speakers cables and the 5 meter and 1.5 meter Nordost Odin cables, plus some power cords I plan on ordering Monday.... may go Valhalla 2 on the power cords as they are 1/2 the Odin price.
 

Bill Hart

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Do you think part of the delay was simply the workworking- I would suspect that HRS contracts that out....
My dealings with the company have always been cordial, but i didn't make the kind of commitment you did, either.
Glad you are happy with the result. Certainly looks the part. Nice turntable light, btw....
 

elescher

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Rockitman,

Please check out the Stage III Minotaur (if you haven't already) before spending for the Odin. I had the Odin for 2 years and am really happy with the III. I also compared the Minotaur to others including others even higher up in the Stage III lineup.

Steve
 

LL21

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Rockitman,

Please check out the Stage III Minotaur (if you haven't already) before spending for the Odin. I had the Odin for 2 years and am really happy with the III. I also compared the Minotaur to others including others even higher up in the Stage III lineup.

Steve

I got an email from someone who did a massive cable shootout. Zensati and TA Opus MM2 were his favorite with Stage III's equivalent reference being super-close for a lot less as I am told.
 

Frank750

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Interesting development. I've been running the ARC Ref 10 and Ref 10 Phono almost 24/7 to speed up burn in. Around 200 hours I questioned the performance as things were not progressing as I had hoped. ARC came back and said it could be the 6550 tubes in one of the power supplies. They sent me 2 replacements. Since both phono and CD sounded bad, I replaced the line stage tubes first. Sure enough that fixed the problem.

I was up to about 560 hours on both ARC pieces as of last night and although I was experiencing steady improvement since replacing the 6550s in the linestage power supply, at around 500 hours things really kicked into another gear. Everything was sounding incredible and I was extremely happy with the ARC additions along with the HRS rack.

But then yesterday I began experiencing problems similar to the initial scenario when I had to replace the 6550s in the linestage power supply. I took a shot and moved the 6550s from the phono pre to the linestage and sure enough that fixed the problem.......again. Well, a few hours later the problem returned. No more replacement tubes but I did have a Pass XP20 preamp sitting around. Replaced the ARC with the Pass and everything was fine again.

My only thought at this point is that I don't have enough clearance above the ARC units on the HRS rack to allow proper ventilation and I'm accelerating tube failure. I have noticed quite a bit of heat as they've been running 24/7 for break in. I brought the clearance issue up when the rack was being put together but was told it shouldn't be a problem. There's only 3"or so of clearance for all 4 ARC units. You can see it in the picture I posted earlier in this thread.

Clearly I won't be running the 2 tube units 24/7 any longer as I believe 90% of the burn in is complete but the heat issue and the acceleration of tube life still has me very concerned. I have no way of providing additional clearance with this rack. There just isn't any more room. I'm thinking the tubes will unfortunately have to go at this point. Anyone have any similar experiences?
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Interesting development. I've been running the ARC Ref 10 and Ref 10 Phono almost 24/7 to speed up burn in. Around 200 hours I questioned the performance as things were not progressing as I had hoped. ARC came back and said it could be the 6550 tubes in one of the power supplies. They sent me 2 replacements. Since both phono and CD sounded bad, I replaced the line stage tubes first. Sure enough that fixed the problem.

I was up to about 560 hours on both ARC pieces as of last night and although I was experiencing steady improvement since replacing the 6550s in the linestage power supply, at around 500 hours things really kicked into another gear. Everything was sounding incredible and I was extremely happy with the ARC additions along with the HRS rack.

But then yesterday I began experiencing problems similar to the initial scenario when I had to replace the 6550s in the linestage power supply. I took a shot and moved the 6550s from the phono pre to the linestage and sure enough that fixed the problem.......again. Well, a few hours later the problem returned. No more replacement tubes but I did have a Pass XP20 preamp sitting around. Replaced the ARC with the Pass and everything was fine again.

My only thought at this point is that I don't have enough clearance above the ARC units on the HRS rack to allow proper ventilation and I'm accelerating tube failure. I have noticed quite a bit of heat as they've been running 24/7 for break in. I brought the clearance issue up when the rack was being put together but was told it shouldn't be a problem. There's only 3"or so of clearance for all 4 ARC units. You can see it in the picture I posted earlier in this thread.

Clearly I won't be running the 2 tube units 24/7 any longer as I believe 90% of the burn in is complete but the heat issue and the acceleration of tube life still has me very concerned. I have no way of providing additional clearance with this rack. There just isn't any more room. I'm thinking the tubes will unfortunately have to go at this point. Anyone have any similar experiences?

Hi Frank...sorry to hear. Always frustrating to have some improvements...which lead to other 'kinks' elsewhere in the system. I just finished 3-4 weeks of intensive 'study' using innumerable combinations of HRS M3, Nimbus Couplers and Ultra 5s to [finally!] get back exactly the tonal purity/quality I love with my system...and all the clarity that one expects from great isolation...but I had a number of speed bumps along the way which set me back until I could figure out the 'perfect' combination (literally 48 hours ago...so I am finally back to playing music I want to listen to instead of listening to 'test tracks' over and over again. Thank goodness. My wife is relieved as well.)

Coming back to your setup...my only 2 cents is that when I had my own rack custom made...I had designed for my old Gryphon Antileon to sit underneath on the bottom shelf...with 6" of clearance...but the designer actually put a slanted slat of wood on the underside of the upper shelf (reducing the 6" clear height)...but because it was slanted, it effectively took the hot air and allowed it to 'slide' out from under the shelf and avoid getting 'trapped' there.

It worked well because I could feel almost a soft wave of hot hair streaming out from under the shelf when the amp was really going. Now that I have a Gryphon Colosseum standing upright to the side of the rack, I still have the 'louvers' under the shelf but don't really need them anymore...unless I get a Gryphon Mephisto, that is!!! ;)

Not sure you want to monkey around with HRS but I wonder what would happen if you temporarily fixed a slanted sheet of something to the underside of the upper shelf directly above your tubes.

To double check its actually a heat problem...what happens if you plug in a fan and run it directly over the tubes while its running 24/7? If it still gives you problems, it may not be a 'heat trap' issue.
 

rsorren1

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Frank, sorry to hear you are having problems. I went back and looked at your pictures of the assembled rack with equipment in position. I'm not convinced that the issue is heat. Pre-amps run much cooler than amps as you know. I own a Ref Anniversary and have the power supply unit on a lower shelf sitting between REF 210s and I don't have any problems with not a lot more clearance than you seem to have. This sounds like a REF 10 problem. If it were me, I would call my dealer, have them come and pack up the REF 10 and send it to ARC for a check-up. I've owned ARC REF components for many years now and while I have had very few problems (I can only think of one) ARC have been great to work with. I have always worked through my local dealer.
 

Frank750

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Frank, sorry to hear you are having problems. I went back and looked at your pictures of the assembled rack with equipment in position. I'm not convinced that the issue is heat. Pre-amps run much cooler than amps as you know. I own a Ref Anniversary and have the power supply unit on a lower shelf sitting between REF 210s and I don't have any problems with not a lot more clearance than you seem to have. This sounds like a REF 10 problem. If it were me, I would call my dealer, have them come and pack up the REF 10 and send it to ARC for a check-up. I've owned ARC REF components for many years now and while I have had very few problems (I can only think of one) ARC have been great to work with. I have always worked through my local dealer.

Thanks! I spoke to my dealer a little while ago. We are working on a few things. Another member, Dre, has been a big help as well.
 

microstrip

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I have about 2.5" clearance above the power supply of my REF40 - exactly the same as that of the REF10, run it almost 24/30 during burnin and never had any problems with a 6550, although my preamplifier is now over 7000 hours.

Did you replace the 6h30s of the power supply when you changed the 6550's? A defective 6h30 can also ruin the 6550 fast, as it is controlling it and the 6550 is being used as a series pass regulator. BTW, the REF10 is dual mono - it is highly improbable that you have the same problem in both channels.
 

Bill Hart

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Thanks! I spoke to my dealer a little while ago. We are working on a few things. Another member, Dre, has been a big help as well.
FWIW, when i had the Lamm L2 line stage, I left it on all the time- tube power supply, solid state audio path. (I only pulled power during electrical storms, and the thing would take 3 or 4 days to come back to where it should be, sonically). Vlad replaced some caps and parts at one point, thinking I had it stacked or in a confined enclosure; it was not, it had plenty of 'breathing room.' One of the other issues, when that unit seemed to run hot, was something that was simple stupid- just the ambient temperature of the room itself. On really warm days, I'd have the air-con cranked to meat locker chill- the line stage seemed to love it.
Not sniping at ARC (i have owned gear from them since 1974) but why do these things take so long to burn in? Is it capacitors? It takes what 650 hours to burn in fully? With a 2000 hour tube life? (kinda reminds me of timing belt changes on later Ferraris- engine pull every 15k miles- ugh).
 

Frank750

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I have about 2.5" clearance above the power supply of my REF40 - exactly the same as that of the REF10, run it almost 24/30 during burnin and never had any problems with a 6550, although my preamplifier is now over 7000 hours.

Did you replace the 6h30s of the power supply when you changed the 6550's? A defective 6h30 can also ruin the 6550 fast, as it is controlling it and the 6550 is being used as a series pass regulator. BTW, the REF10 is dual mono - it is highly improbable that you have the same problem in both channels.

I reconnected the Ref 10 after it sat idle and switched off over night. System sounds fine with the Pass XP 20. After reinstalling the Ref 10, it sounded very good immediately and seemed to be getting better. Then I noticed at about the 35 minute mark sound quality starting to deteriorate. Went south from there. Collapsed soundstage, mushy, thin bass and other bad traits. Can only think there's something wrong with the unit at this point. I moved the 6550s from the line stage to the Ref 10 Phono and I'm about to reinstall that connected to the XP20. Want to see how that works out. Will have to talk to ARC Monday.
 

rockitman

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sorry to hear of your troubles Frank. It will all get worked out. How did you make out with the XS 300's ? Do you have them back ? What was wrong ?
 

PeterA

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Frank, I know you started this thread to share and discuss your new rack, which is gorgeous, btw. But now that you are discussing your new ARC REF gear, I'm very curious to learn how you think the pre and phono compare to your old Pass XP30 and XP25. Once you sort our the issues with the ARC gear, and have come to some conclusions about your new gear, could you comment about the sonics relative to your former Pass equipment?
 

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