MSB Diamond DAC, UMT Plus, Diamond Power Supply has arrived !!

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
I'm very excited to report that I picked up the MSB stack Wednesday evening from my dealer. I was so anxious to get them that I stopped by the store and picked them up rather than wait for delivery and installation next week! My dealer will be out shortly to listen but through the evaluation process, I've gained much experience in the set-up and options for the Diamond DAC and MSB stack. The Diamond DAC has the Galaxy clock and USB2 options installed. I selected UMT Plus because I have a large number of SACDs so the capability to play SACD was a must have for me. USB2 option and the ability to play DSD files through it is very exciting although I don't own any DSD files yet. I do have hi-res downloads and I'm interested to see how DSD files will play out in the future. The MSB stack replaces the excellent Esoteric P03/D03/G0S combination in my system that I enjoyed for the almost four years I owned them.

A quick fact about me, I'm an amateur drummer. I've played most of my life but was never "touched by God" at birth like the true professionals were. I tend to lock in on the drum track of songs and enjoy jazz from the 50s, 60s, classic rock, and classical music especially the piano concerto format. My listening bias is tilted toward space between instruments, drive of the bass line, realism at the frequency extremes especially the sound of cymbals and hi-hat. Piano must sound real. Make my living as an IT professional for 35 years; EE/CS degree 100 years ago (or so it seems).

After getting the MSB stack home and a 40 minute warm-up, I spent about three hours listening Wednesday night. Here are my initial thoughts. The MSB stack presents instruments in there own space better than anything I've heard in my system. So much so, that I can hear the phrasing of each performer better than ever before. Example: Steely Dan, Babylon Sisters, Gaucho rebook CD, Bernard Purdie's drum track is awesome. With so much space and resolution, I can hear ghost notes that I have not heard with such clarity. The background singers all appear in the sound scape more prevalent than before. I own two SHM-SACDs of the Stones, one is Let it Bleed. Love in Vain is scary real. Guitar and Jagger's voice were fool you real. How many times have you heard Fire and Rain? A million right? This song had new meaning for me through the MSB stack. Russ Kunkel is an incredible drummer. He played the track with brushes. The tom-tom fills between verses jump out of the sound scape. Tonal realism. The bowed double bass during the song growls like never before at the end. Amazing that a standard like this can sound so different. James Taylor's voice hangs in the air as you would expect and sounds wonderful.

The settings I've started with on the Diamond DAC are: up-sampling off, filter F1, analog ground lifted. I do recommend having a display that you can hook up from time to time to the HDMI of the UMT Plus to get the settings correct. Once you do that you don't need the display any longer and I put it in the closet of my listening room. It was helpful though on initial set-up. I will continue to list further listening thoughts since several folks on this forum have asked about this stack. Next chance to listen will be later this weekend. Work keeps getting in the way!
 

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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Why didn't you switch the upsampling on ?
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
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36
Smyrna, GA
I'm very excited to report that I picked up the MSB stack Wednesday evening from my dealer. I was so anxious to get them that I stopped by the store and picked them up rather than wait for delivery and installation next week! My dealer will be out shortly to listen but through the evaluation process, I've gained much experience in the set-up and options for the Diamond DAC and MSB stack. The Diamond DAC has the Galaxy clock and USB2 options installed. I selected UMT Plus because I have a large number of SACDs so the capability to play SACD was a must have for me. USB2 option and the ability to play DSD files through it is very exciting although I don't own any DSD files yet. I do have hi-res downloads and I'm interested to see how DSD files will play out in the future. The MSB stack replaces the excellent Esoteric P03/D03/G0S combination in my system that I enjoyed for the almost four years I owned them.

A quick fact about me, I'm an amateur drummer. I've played most of my life but was never "touched by God" at birth like the true professionals were. I tend to lock in on the drum track of songs and enjoy jazz from the 50s, 60s, classic rock, and classical music especially the piano concerto format. My listening bias is tilted toward space between instruments, drive of the bass line, realism at the frequency extremes especially the sound of cymbals and hi-hat. Piano must sound real. Make my living as an IT professional for 35 years; EE/CS degree 100 years ago (or so it seems).

After getting the MSB stack home and a 40 minute warm-up, I spent about three hours listening Wednesday night. Here are my initial thoughts. The MSB stack presents instruments in there own space better than anything I've heard in my system. So much so, that I can hear the phrasing of each performer better than ever before. Example: Steely Dan, Babylon Sisters, Gaucho rebook CD, Bernard Purdie's drum track is awesome. With so much space and resolution, I can hear ghost notes that I have not heard with such clarity. The background singers all appear in the sound scape more prevalent than before. I own two SHM-SACDs of the Stones, one is Let it Bleed. Love in Vain is scary real. Guitar and Jagger's voice were fool you real. How many times have you heard Fire and Rain? A million right? This song had new meaning for me through the MSB stack. Russ Kunkel is an incredible drummer. He played the track with brushes. The tom-tom fills between verses jump out of the sound scape. Tonal realism. The bowed double bass during the song growls like never before at the end. Amazing that a standard like this can sound so different. James Taylor's voice hangs in the air as you would expect and sounds wonderful.

The settings I've started with on the Diamond DAC are: up-sampling off, filter F1, analog ground lifted. I do recommend having a display that you can hook up from time to time to the HDMI of the UMT Plus to get the settings correct. Once you do that you don't need the display any longer and I put it in the closet of my listening room. It was helpful though on initial set-up. I will continue to list further listening thoughts since several folks on this forum have asked about this stack. Next chance to listen will be later this weekend. Work keeps getting in the way!

Why do you have USB2 option installed? What USB source are you using? Are you using the Pro I2S interface between transport and DAC? With the UMT Plus, you don't need a server / USB source anymore, because you can stream audio to the UMT and then use the I2S to DAC connection.

This is of great interest to me, because I am currently using a server with USB, and am considering going the UMT plus streaming + Pro I2S route instead. However, I have no idea how streaming stacks up sonically against a good server with USB source. Can you clarify your setup, and ideally comment on difference between streaming + I2S compared with USB source into the DAC?
 

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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edorr - that is an interesting option. I will have to check it myself. I will need to borrow the UMT Plus first though.

I wonder if the chosen clock option for UMT plus would have any influence.
 

arnies

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
104
88
1,583
Austin, TX
edorr - that is an interesting option. I will have to check it myself. I will need to borrow the UMT Plus first though.

I wonder if the chosen clock option for UMT plus would have any influence.

Hi Elberoth,

I don't think that you would need the optional clock for the UMT Plus transport (if that is what you are asking) as one of the new features of the UMT Plus (compared to the previous version of the UMT) is that if you use the Pro I2s interface between the UMT Plus and the MSB DAC IV Signature Plus that you have, the clock signal from the clock in the Signature DAC IV is used to sync back via the ethernet cable to the UMT Plus. There is an indicator light on the UMT Plus that lights up when the clock sync is working. Obviously if you upgraded to the optional Galaxy clock for your DAC you would probably get improved performance. This also occurs when you use the Signature Data CD IV (but of course this transport does not have the streaming capability that the UMT Plus has).

Hopefully I did not mis understand what you were asking.

Arnie
 

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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That is what common sense sugests, and I have to admit it was also my first thought.

I said that I was wondering, since even if you send the clock signal back to the transport, you still use transport's clock and PLL, which may have some influence.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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edorr - that is an interesting option. I will have to check it myself. I will need to borrow the UMT Plus first though.

I wonder if the chosen clock option for UMT plus would have any influence.

I've been trying to get my hands on a UMT Plus demo unit for weeks myself to do the USB vs. Pro I2S streaming shootout for 2 channel. Additional benefit for me is I can actually use it as a MCH source, because I run the AES/EBU + S/PDIFs digital into my Trinnov processor for MCH.
 

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
The rest of the system consists of: ARC REF Anniversary, ARC REF 210 with KT120 upgrade, Wilson W/P 8, Kimber Select 1126, 3038, Shunyata Anaconda and King Cobra. Power is fed from a 5KVA transformer that feeds a separate box with twelve dedicated 30 amp lines to the music room. I will post pictures of the room and the MSB stack later this weekend. The MSB color scheme I ordered is silver face and covers, black heat-sinks and footers. Really beautiful combination.
 

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
Hi Adam. I am leaving the up-sampling off at this point for a few reasons. First, as I'm sure you know, up-sampling plays no part in DSD playback and I play many SACDs. Second, when I play hi-res downloads or redbook CDs, I would prefer to hear them in their native resolution for now. I want to get a good sense of the system without up-sampling and then turn it on and see the difference. Same with filter F1 instead of F4 at this point. When I did my in-house evaluation of the MSB stack I liked what I heard with up-sampling on and filter F4. I'll see if I end up there again.
 

rsorren1

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Sep 6, 2013
365
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Dallas area
edorr, thanks for the note. First, I am using the Pro I2S interface between the transport and DAC. When I play computer music, I use a MacBook Pro that I have exclusively as a "music server" and feed bitstream to the USB port of Diamond DAC. The digital files are on an external attached hard drive. I am still using Amarra in the chain to automatically switch to the proper resolution on the fly. You can stream music to the UMT Plus as you suggest but I have not had a chance to experiment with it. What I can tell you is that the USB2 implementation on the MSB Diamond sounds great. It is very close to what I hear through the transport. SACD through the transport is still best sounding in my opinion and I'm sure the Pro I2S is a major reason for it. The Galaxy clock in the Diamond DAC synchs with the UMT Plus. There is a small green indicator light on the front panel of the UMT Plus that indicates clock synch.
 

asiufy

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Jul 8, 2011
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The problem is that no Mac player supports streaming to a remote device. Well, JRiver does, but it isn't a real Mac app anyway...
I'd love to have Audirvana do that. Or better yet, iTunes itself.


alexandre
 

edorr

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May 10, 2010
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The problem is that no Mac player supports streaming to a remote device. Well, JRiver does, but it isn't a real Mac app anyway...
I'd love to have Audirvana do that. Or better yet, iTunes itself.


alexandre

I could be wrong, but I believe if you simply install a free DLNA server on your Mac (there are many), the Oppo will see the library under the network options. You don't even need your Mac if you simply store the music on a NAS with DLNA server (e.g. Synology). You probably need the Oppo interface which is indeed clumsy. This should be very easy to set up so you can do a proof of concept (i.e. shootout). You can now stream the same track as what you play on the Mac over USB, and can do real time switching on the DAC to hear what sounds best. If streaming + Pro I2S out beats USB, you then do a bit of research on how to set this up so you can stream and control your library remotely from an iPad. Jriver will do the trick, but there are probably other ways to do it.

This is what I am planning to do when I get my hands on an UMT Plus transport.
 

asiufy

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True. With the current UMT, you can only use the Oppo interface to "grab" files from the remote DLNA server. I tried that, and it was indeed clumsy, specially since the old UMT won't let you use a remote iPad app to control it.

With the new UMT Plus, you should be able to use the DLNA server, as you suggested, and avoid the Oppo altogether, by using an iPad app, driving the UMT plus.

Other than SQ itself, I also worry about the hability to do DSD with this scenario, since the DLNA server would have to be able to do it.


alexandre
 

edorr

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May 10, 2010
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True. With the current UMT, you can only use the Oppo interface to "grab" files from the remote DLNA server. I tried that, and it was indeed clumsy, specially since the old UMT won't let you use a remote iPad app to control it.

With the new UMT Plus, you should be able to use the DLNA server, as you suggested, and avoid the Oppo altogether, by using an iPad app, driving the UMT plus.

Other than SQ itself, I also worry about the hability to do DSD with this scenario, since the DLNA server would have to be able to do it.


alexandre

For native DSD you would have to run it from a USB drive, using the Oppo interface. This is not a factor for me, because I would happily convert my 2 channel DSDs to PCM to be able to access the files from the JRiver library on my iPad.

For any MCH DSDs I need to convert to PCM anyway, because my downstream gear cannot do native DSD in MCH.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Austin
Hey, I just want to say congratulations...as a fellow Texan, I'm just outside of Austin and have heard your MSB a few times locally here. I know it's special !
 

johnthomas

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2013
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0
131
Hi Adam. I am leaving the up-sampling off at this point for a few reasons. First, as I'm sure you know, up-sampling plays no part in DSD playback and I play many SACDs. Second, when I play hi-res downloads or redbook CDs, I would prefer to hear them in their native resolution for now. I want to get a good sense of the system without up-sampling and then turn it on and see the difference. Same with filter F1 instead of F4 at this point. When I did my in-house evaluation of the MSB stack I liked what I heard with up-sampling on and filter F4. I'll see if I end up there again.

I play my MSB stack with up sampling off and to my ears sounds more natural. Congrats on the purchase. I was talking to MSB yesterday about the UMT plus sounds like an interesting unit.
 

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
True. With the current UMT, you can only use the Oppo interface to "grab" files from the remote DLNA server. I tried that, and it was indeed clumsy, specially since the old UMT won't let you use a remote iPad app to control it.

With the new UMT Plus, you should be able to use the DLNA server, as you suggested, and avoid the Oppo altogether, by using an iPad app, driving the UMT plus.

Other than SQ itself, I also worry about the hability to do DSD with this scenario, since the DLNA server would have to be able to do it.


alexandre

Thanks for the notes. What I am going to try to do is plug the external USB hard drive into the UMT Plus and access files on it via the Oppo interface. I will have the display that I purchased connected at this time so that I can navigate and I can have the actual CD in the transport at the same time to make a comparison. What you and edorr are saying in your posts are correct and if the sound of files played directly through the UMT Plus is as good or better than the transport, I will have to use the approach with DLNA server and a controlling program on an iPad as edorr suggests. Stay tuned
 

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
I play my MSB stack with up sampling off and to my ears sounds more natural. Congrats on the purchase. I was talking to MSB yesterday about the UMT plus sounds like an interesting unit.

Thanks for the note. There are several combinations available with multiple filters and two different upsample algorithms so the evaluation period will take a few weeks to be sure. Stay tuned. I will post thoughts but so far up-sample off is very natural sounding.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
Thanks for the notes. What I am going to try to do is plug the external USB hard drive into the UMT Plus and access files on it via the Oppo interface. I will have the display that I purchased connected at this time so that I can navigate and I can have the actual CD in the transport at the same time to make a comparison. What you and edorr are saying in your posts are correct and if the sound of files played directly through the UMT Plus is as good or better than the transport, I will have to use the approach with DLNA server and a controlling program on an iPad as edorr suggests. Stay tuned

Correct. You could get better ease of use (iPad based remote control), and probably better sound using Pro I2S instead of USB (to be validated). I would do a three way shootout though - spin the disc, use USB source into the DAC (iMac) AND play file from USB storage on the UMT. Note that none of these three will be exactly the same as the target setup, which is network streaming, but if Pro I2S beats UBS it will most likely be the same outcome using streaming... Good luck and let me know what you're finding out.
 

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